yardbarker

NCAA Wiretap Headlines

Why is Joe Dumars still GM in Detroit?

Moderators: Morten Jensen, Blame Rasho, tsherkin, Doctor MJ, Flash3, UGA Hayes, Basti, KingCuban, NO-KG-AI, Yuri Vaultin, magnumt

Post#46 Re: Why is Joe Dumars still GM in Detroit?
Sun Jul 8, 2012 6:55 pm by Uncle Mxy

bullsnewdynasty wrote:Gordon was definitely a guy who was not utilized correctly. How else can you explain a guy dropping off so much during his prime years, and not even the result of a major injury? It's almost unprecedented.

He did have a major injury in his first season as a Piston. He blew out his ankle, started sucking, and had surgery right after the season ended. For the past couple seasons, he's largely been passive... more catch-and-shoot than off-the-dribble. My sense is that he got paid and doesn't have the drive that he did when he was in Chicago. The only time we saw a sustained stretch of the player who led Chicago to 7 games vs. Boston was before his ankle injury.
Uncle Mxy
Head Coach
User avatar
Posts: 6,446
And1: 205
Joined: Jul 14, 2004
Location: I plead the Fifth Dimension
Top

Post#47 Re: Why is Joe Dumars still GM in Detroit?
Sun Jul 8, 2012 7:13 pm by Blkbrd671

Don't forget Michael Curry and Kuester! the POS coaches hired and dumba* schemes didn't help. Mostly due to the Fact Karen Davidson wasn't willing to dish money out for good coaches.
All I have in this world is my balls and my word and I don't break them for no one
Blkbrd671




RealGM
Posts: 14,237
And1: 470
Joined: Oct 5, 2010
Top

Post#48 Re: Why is Joe Dumars still GM in Detroit?
Sun Jul 8, 2012 7:15 pm by Jan_Sobieski

Blkbrd671 wrote:Don't forget Michael Curry and Kuester! the POS coaches hired and dumba* schemes didn't help. Mostly due to the Fact Karen Davidson wasn't willing to dish money out for good coaches.

Now with the new CBA coaches are better to come by.
Jan_Sobieski
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,763
And1: 11
Joined: Nov 12, 2011
Location: Slavic Union
Top

Post#49 Re: Why is Joe Dumars still GM in Detroit?
Sun Jul 8, 2012 7:19 pm by Ripp

Drummond @ 9 will make him look like a genius
A Tolkienesque strategy war game made by me: http://www.warlords.co
Ripp
General Manager
Posts: 9,214
And1: 226
Joined: Dec 27, 2009
Top

Post#50 Re: Why is Joe Dumars still GM in Detroit?
Sun Jul 8, 2012 7:27 pm by ozzykhan16

Well he got rid of Gordon, so that was a good move fixing his mistake.
ozzykhan16
Analyst
Posts: 3,025
And1: 646
Joined: Apr 18, 2009
Top

Post#51 Re: Why is Joe Dumars still GM in Detroit?
Sun Jul 8, 2012 7:34 pm by Blkbrd671

^its a matter of what he does with that money. The billups trade wasn't that bad until he signed CV and BG with AI's cap room
All I have in this world is my balls and my word and I don't break them for no one
Blkbrd671




RealGM
Posts: 14,237
And1: 470
Joined: Oct 5, 2010
Top

Post#52 Re: Why is Joe Dumars still GM in Detroit?
Sun Jul 8, 2012 7:49 pm by FlipTSO

bullsnewdynasty wrote:
FlipTSO wrote:The funny thing is that Wallace would've been worth every penny of that $12 mil/yr had he stayed with us, because we knew how to use him. CHI spent $15 mil/yr on a player and had no clue what to do with him. I guess you could say the same for Gordon with us, but thats my point. GM'st with far less accomplishments like Paxson have gaffes here and there as well and don't get fired. Yet ppl think Joe should makes no sense.


It wasn't that Wallace wasn't utilized correctly in Chicago. Wallace was old and significantly declined by the 2nd year he was in Chicago. I also think he lost some motivation after he got paid. Gordon was definitely a guy who was not utilized correctly. How else can you explain a guy dropping off so much during his prime years, and not even the result of a major injury? It's almost unprecedented.

I'm not evaluating Dumars based on the Gordon decision alone. He also traded Billups for Iverson, dealt Afflalo for nothing, signed Villanueva, and hired Kuester. His only saving grace is that he's been decent at drafting, although Monroe fell in his lap. Prince contract extension was also confusing. You can't tell me that you are satisfied with Dumars after 3-4 years of mediocrity/losing.


I hate when ppl say Knight, Monroe, and Drummond fell in his lap, because its taking credit away from Dumars. He could've passed on them just like the other GM's, but he recognized the talent there which the other GM's could not identify, and that deserves credit. That's not just luck. He still had to put his name on the line and pick them over all the other the players on the board. Its like when ppl say a team lost a game, instead of crediting the team that won the game.

And yes I'm very satisfied with Dumars because I understand the circumstances and I'm not an impatient fickle fan. When you have a contender whose run lasts 7-8 yrs, eventually that team is going to get old and take 3-4 yrs to rebuild. On top of that, there was a 2 yr stall on the rebuild through an ownership change. He's actually done a remarkable job rebuilding this team, when you consider 2 of the 4 yrs he was stuck at a standstill and couldn't do anything but draft players.

The OP who made this thread must feel foolish today. I remember saying how Joe had us set up great with young talent and upcoming capspace. Well since then he has loaded us with even more young talent, more capspace, and the capspace is now coming a year sooner. Dumars is one of the best GM's in the league and is highly regarded among the other top GM's. Its a joke when fans say otherwise. All the top GM's have down periods and have made bad moves. For reasons unknown fans just ignore those other GM's bad moves, but love to constantly point out the few that Dumars has made. Must be hate stemming back from the Bad Boys or something, lol.

I never hear ppl talk about Riley's #2 pick gaffe, taking Beasley over Westbrook, Love, Gordon, Hibbert, Ibaka, B Lopez, etc. Its only Dumars taking Darko over Wade, Carmelo, Bosh. :roll:
FlipTSO
Banned User
Posts: 5,442
And1: 24
Joined: Dec 20, 2011
Top

Post#53 Re: Why is Joe Dumars still GM in Detroit?
Sun Jul 8, 2012 8:15 pm by Uncle Mxy

I can fault JD for the misuse of the cap space the AI trade helped free up, but it's hard to totally blame his instincts on the trade itself.

JD traded for someone who didn't seem badly injured and, just the year before, scored 26 ppg on 46% shooting and led the league in minutes.

Sure, you expect some decline at his age, but his meltdown in Detroit was meteoric, especially given no injury was really involved (except for the totally bogus one at the end which prohibited him from playing in the playoffs).
Uncle Mxy
Head Coach
User avatar
Posts: 6,446
And1: 205
Joined: Jul 14, 2004
Location: I plead the Fifth Dimension
Top

Post#54 Re: Why is Joe Dumars still GM in Detroit?
Sun Jul 8, 2012 8:29 pm by FlipTSO

^The reason Iverson isn't in the league today is because of Iverson, not the Pistons. He refused to buy into the team concept, refused to acknowledge and accept his skills were eroding, and that it was time in his career to take a lesser role. Its the same reason no team has wanted him since. The Pistons just happened to be the team to expose him for that.

Like you said AI was coming off a great season. There was no real way of knowing that would be the last year of the great AI, and also know way of knowing he was THAT selfish, that he would rather not even be in the league at all, than to take a lesser role that his new lesser talent suggested he play. Sure, it was mostly for capspace and sure JD spent the capspace poorly, but at the same time how else could he have spent it? If you look at that FA class, BG and CV were honestly the best 2 players in the class. It was just a garbage FA class. And Karen told him if he didn't spend it in '09 he couldn't spend it in '10. So what other choice did he have? Better to take a chance on a couple players than have nothing at all.
FlipTSO
Banned User
Posts: 5,442
And1: 24
Joined: Dec 20, 2011
Top

Post#55 Re: Why is Joe Dumars still GM in Detroit?
Sun Jul 8, 2012 8:29 pm by Da-Met

Dumars has made some really awful moves the past few years, but I do feel he usually does a decent job of cleaning up his own messes. He basically steered Detroit into a 2-3 year purgatory, but now they have a really good future with Monroe/Knight/Drummond.
Da-Met
General Manager
Posts: 8,297
And1: 122
Joined: Jan 18, 2006
Top

Post#56 Re: Why is Joe Dumars still GM in Detroit?
Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:19 pm by NiqtheAntiq

Da-Met wrote:Dumars has made some really awful moves the past few years, but I do feel he usually does a decent job of cleaning up his own messes. He basically steered Detroit into a 2-3 year purgatory, but now they have a really good future with Monroe/Knight/Drummond.


1-9

Can Pistons fans now agree that Dumars can't make magic strike twice?

They need a guy who will get ride of guys like Prince,Maxiell,Stucky and Villenueva tommorrow.
NiqtheAntiq
Junior
User avatar
Posts: 380
And1: 98
Joined: Jun 21, 2011
Top

Post#57 Re: Why is Joe Dumars still GM in Detroit?
Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:33 pm by DetroitPistons

NiqtheAntiq wrote:
Da-Met wrote:Dumars has made some really awful moves the past few years, but I do feel he usually does a decent job of cleaning up his own messes. He basically steered Detroit into a 2-3 year purgatory, but now they have a really good future with Monroe/Knight/Drummond.


1-9

Can Pistons fans now agree that Dumars can't make magic strike twice?

They need a guy who will get ride of guys like Prince,Maxiell,Stucky and Villenueva tommorrow.


Dumars has done a good job with the rebuild and I am very happy with Monroe, Knight, and Drummond as our current core. He has done an awesome job at drafting. The reason we are 1-9 is because of our moronic coach who constantly uses terrible rotations and gives Drummond (our 2nd best big) 12min a game. He has single handedly cost us 3 or 4 games so far. If he keeps it up we will have another good lottery pick to go with our core and I'm just about ready to jump on the tank bandwagon at this point anyways. We also have great cap flexibility too. The thing is, Dumars and Frank are a package deal imo. If Frank doesn't get it together then both with probably be gone because I just don't see Dumars getting another opportunity to hire another coach.
http://www.youtube.com/user/drcraigvideos
reasonablefaith.org - creationwiki.org
intelligentdesign.org - icr.org
answersingenesis.org - tektonics.org
drdino.com - evolutionfairytale.com
DetroitPistons
General Manager
User avatar
Posts: 9,218
And1: 349
Joined: Apr 18, 2010
Location: Michigan
Top

Post#58 Re: Why is Joe Dumars still GM in Detroit?
Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:57 pm by Goldtop

NiqtheAntiq wrote:
Da-Met wrote:Dumars has made some really awful moves the past few years, but I do feel he usually does a decent job of cleaning up his own messes. He basically steered Detroit into a 2-3 year purgatory, but now they have a really good future with Monroe/Knight/Drummond.


1-9

Can Pistons fans now agree that Dumars can't make magic strike twice?

They need a guy who will get ride of guys like Prince,Maxiell,Stucky and Villenueva tommorrow.


This team wasn't built to win this year. The goal was to clear capspace and develop young players. When you do that, 1-9 happens. Young teams don't win many games, generally.

The only problem I have is they aren't playing Drummond enough, but its still only 10 games. He's got 72 left to play more min.

Despite what it may look like, Joe has actually put them in a good position, with young talent, and potentially ~30 mil in capspace this summer. Thats all you can really ask for out of a rebuild.

Maxiell, Bynum, Daye, and Maggette are all exp contracts totaling ~20 mil in space. Rip's 5 mil comes off the books too. If they need more capspace, Joe still has his amnesty, so he can use it on CV for another 8 mil, if nec. And next year is Stuckey's final year of his contract, which is only partially guaranteed for 4 mil. So there's probably a good chance Joe will get rid of Maxiell, Bynum, Daye, Maggette, CV, and Stuckey all this summer.

Then be left with Monroe, Drummond, and Knight all on rookie deals with $30 mil in space to build around them. Plus some nice complimentary pieces in Singler and English. I really like what Joe has done given what he's had to work with, with the 2 yr ownership change that banned him for trades or signing FA. I'm not sure what more coud be asked of him. He's stocked us with 3 top young talents and $30 mil in capspace.

What he needs now is to find a good coach. ppl blame him for Curry, Kuester, and Frank, however, he was only allowed to spend like $1 mil/yr on coach's during the Curry/Kuester hires. I don't know who else he could've gotten better for only $1 mil/yr. He went after Avery and Collins, but ownership wouldn't pay them what they wanted. And the rumor is that Frank was Gores' choice, not Joe.

When Joe's been able to spend on coach's he got Brown/Flip who led them to 5 straight ECF. I think SVG would be the perfect fit for this team. ppl rag on him, but he developed Dwight into the best Center in the league, and took the worst team in the league to the Finals in 5 yrs. I could see him doing the same with Monroe and Drummond.
Goldtop
Banned User
Posts: 4,941
And1: 163
Joined: Dec 17, 2011
Top

Post#59 Re: Why is Joe Dumars still GM in Detroit?
Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:07 pm by I_Socrates

FlipTSO wrote:I never hear ppl talk about Riley's #2 pick gaffe, taking Beasley over Westbrook, Love, Gordon, Hibbert, Ibaka, B Lopez, etc. Its only Dumars taking Darko over Wade, Carmelo, Bosh. :roll:


At that point in time, Beasley was viewed as a can't miss number one or number 2 pick. You can't possibly blame Riely for picking him over any of those other guys, most of whom were viewed as projects.

Meanwhile, Carmelo was the can't miss talent in 03 after LeBron, and Darko was a HUGE unknown but still regarded highly as a project big. Imagine that 04 Pistons team with Melo instead of Darko.
I_Socrates




Head Coach
User avatar
Posts: 6,913
And1: 393
Joined: Jun 16, 2008
Top

Post#60 Re: Why is Joe Dumars still GM in Detroit?
Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:14 pm by Woodsanity

Wasn't Darko a consensus number 2 pick? Not really Dumars fault. Not to mention Darko was better fit wise. It just turned out he was a bust.
twix2500 wrote:If Lebron went to NY and Melo to Miami, Melo would have a trophy and Lebron would not.

Tiesto_Lakers wrote:The more I watch basketball, the more I realize that Kobe, in his absolute prime (2006-2008), was a top 2 player of all-time, only second to Jordan.
Woodsanity

Head Coach
User avatar
Posts: 7,491
And1: 1,080
Joined: Mar 30, 2012
Top

Post#61 Re: Why is Joe Dumars still GM in Detroit?
Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:47 pm by Blkbrd671

Its funny how he starts doing things right and ppl still calling for his head. He's gotten 3 straight steals off the draft, we'll have about 25mil in expiring, and probably another high pick.

Joe D's acquired the talent, Its Franks job to make the roster work.

*FYI When trying to acquire a coach 2 years ago we had: Ewing, Laimbeer, Woodson, M.Brown, and L Frank to pick from..................not exactly a lot too look forward too.


If Detroit were to fire Joe D right now, literally 3 seconds later, Joe would have 3-5 teams calling him.
All I have in this world is my balls and my word and I don't break them for no one
Blkbrd671




RealGM
Posts: 14,237
And1: 470
Joined: Oct 5, 2010
Top

Post#62 Re: Why is Joe Dumars still GM in Detroit?
Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:15 pm by Dan Z

Picking a coach is also part of Joe's job.
Dan Z
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,553
And1: 35
Joined: Feb 18, 2002
Location: NYC
Top

Post#63 Re: Why is Joe Dumars still GM in Detroit?
Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:18 pm by Blkbrd671

Dan Z wrote:Picking a coach is also part of Joe's job.


Joe D should get coach of the year for winning one game with that crap shoot of coaches. Woodson may have been a better choice, but i want to see him get out of the first round
All I have in this world is my balls and my word and I don't break them for no one
Blkbrd671




RealGM
Posts: 14,237
And1: 470
Joined: Oct 5, 2010
Top

Post#64 Re: Why is Joe Dumars still GM in Detroit?
Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:33 pm by ComboGuardCity

Woodsanity wrote:Wasn't Darko a consensus number 2 pick? Not really Dumars fault. Not to mention Darko was better fit wise. It just turned out he was a bust.

Exactly. People forget how hyped Darko was. He was supposed to be the best Euro prospect ever. He was the consensus #2.
"Josh Smith Re-building the city of Detroit one brick at a time" #MoveSmoove
ComboGuardCity
RealGM
User avatar
Posts: 20,193
And1: 1,789
Joined: Jul 9, 2010
Location: I bet against Kemba Walker and lost
Top

Post#65 Re: Why is Joe Dumars still GM in Detroit?
Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:35 pm by DetroitPistons

Why are people still talking about Darko? That was almost a decade ago...
http://www.youtube.com/user/drcraigvideos
reasonablefaith.org - creationwiki.org
intelligentdesign.org - icr.org
answersingenesis.org - tektonics.org
drdino.com - evolutionfairytale.com
DetroitPistons
General Manager
User avatar
Posts: 9,218
And1: 349
Joined: Apr 18, 2010
Location: Michigan
Top

PreviousNext

Return to The General Board


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: airtobster, andyhop, Boomerfan, CodyB_, conker1, dirkster41, EmperorLocky, hellrazor04, hyper316, islanders11040, LascelleL, nevetslc, parso15, rasta_marley, Supercoolmeth, tacchan23, TheOUTLAW, VicG, XerifBill