Race to the MVP.

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Re: Race to the MVP. 

Post#41 » by ShowTimeERA » Thu Nov 8, 2012 2:13 pm

How can a MVP candidte have 2 other 20 point scorers on the same team. Too much talent to be considered most valuable to his team.
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Re: Race to the MVP. 

Post#42 » by TheGarden » Thu Nov 8, 2012 2:24 pm

MVP is bigger than numbers like I said before, its about the impact that player is having on his teams overall success.

While LeBron will almost likely have the best stat line in the NBA having a team like his will cost him some unless Wade goes down again and guys get in a slump.

At this point its very early a lot of guys have cases for the lead

LeBron- putting up his usual balanced numbers, then again he has 2 All Stars by his side
Durant- increased his rebounding, he has an All-Star by his side
Carmelo- added to his game and his impact goes beyond the stat sheet but again gets no respect

just to name those 3, its going to be a lot more clear around Christmas
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Re: Race to the MVP. 

Post#43 » by TheGarden » Thu Nov 8, 2012 2:27 pm

ShowTimeERA wrote:How can a MVP candidte have 2 other 20 point scorers on the same team. Too much talent to be considered most valuable to his team.


also this, like Skip said when he joined them he disqualified himself from the discussion
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Re: Race to the MVP. 

Post#44 » by TheKingOfVa360 » Thu Nov 8, 2012 3:21 pm

PurpleRooster wrote:
osamu wrote:Can't see Lebron winning it. Heat offense is too unselfish for him to statpad



I can see him putting up 25-10-6 with like 55% shooting and the Heat have the best record


Stop it, Lebron is not going to average 10 rebounds.
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Re: Race to the MVP. 

Post#45 » by TheKingOfVa360 » Thu Nov 8, 2012 3:22 pm

ShowTimeERA wrote:How can a MVP candidte have 2 other 20 point scorers on the same team. Too much talent to be considered most valuable to his team.


I agree, the Heat are too stacked for Lebron to be the MVP again. They have Ray Allen coming off their bench for godsake.
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Re: Race to the MVP. 

Post#46 » by NYK_89 » Thu Nov 8, 2012 3:38 pm

TheGarden wrote:
ShowTimeERA wrote:How can a MVP candidte have 2 other 20 point scorers on the same team. Too much talent to be considered most valuable to his team.


also this, like Skip said when he joined them he disqualified himself from the discussion



Putting up the best stats in the league with 2 other all stars is pretty impressive in its own
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Re: Race to the MVP. 

Post#47 » by ShowTimeERA » Thu Nov 8, 2012 3:53 pm

NYK_89 wrote:
TheGarden wrote:
ShowTimeERA wrote:How can a MVP candidte have 2 other 20 point scorers on the same team. Too much talent to be considered most valuable to his team.


also this, like Skip said when he joined them he disqualified himself from the discussion



Putting up the best stats in the league with 2 other all stars is pretty impressive in its own


Durant's stats are just as impressive with even less help. You need to take everything into context, lets put other superstars in lebrons position and let's watch them flourish as well.
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Re: Race to the MVP. 

Post#48 » by LBJ-ITALY » Thu Nov 8, 2012 3:55 pm

Ettorefm wrote:Lebron will have (and is already having) a bad season statistically. Don't get me wrong, he's at his prime, but his numbers will go WAAAAY down from last season
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Look at his first games. 20/7/5 all the time with great efficiency is his pattern and will continue to be. The difference is the Heat will be the first seed overall in the league, and will make a run at some of the best records of all time
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I think they can get to 68-14. In Cleveland, Lebron got to 66


Lebron in the first 5 games has;
22.4p shooting 0.551 from the field and 0.571 behind the arc,10 Reb and 5.6assist with only 2TO playing only 33min!
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Re: Race to the MVP. 

Post#49 » by ShowTimeERA » Thu Nov 8, 2012 3:56 pm

Which team as currently constructed without their best player is still a championship team?
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Re: Race to the MVP. 

Post#50 » by mademan » Thu Nov 8, 2012 4:26 pm

ShowTimeERA wrote:Which team as currently constructed without their best player is still a championship team?


Not Miami, if that's what your getting at. Losing your best offensive,defensive and second best rebounder makes a team see a pretty steep dropoff.
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Re: Race to the MVP. 

Post#51 » by TheGarden » Thu Nov 8, 2012 4:41 pm

mademan wrote:
ShowTimeERA wrote:Which team as currently constructed without their best player is still a championship team?


Not Miami, if that's what your getting at. Losing your best offensive,defensive and second best rebounder makes a team see a pretty steep dropoff.


Miami is still a championship threat without Lebron

Chalmers/Wade/Battier/Haslem/Bosh with a bench of Cole/Allen/Miller/Lewis/Anthony is a top 4 seed in the East and if Wade and Bosh are anything like they were prior to LeBron then they challenge Kobe and Gasol as the best SG and PF duo in the league

Durant away from OKC they might be an 8 seed, Carmelo away from New York they're still a playoff team in the East contender I think not
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Re: Race to the MVP. 

Post#52 » by mademan » Thu Nov 8, 2012 4:46 pm

Miami without Lebron is on the same level as a team like (healthy) Indiana from last year or Denver. Top 4 seed likely, but not an actual threat to win. There's no way anybody would consider them a contender.
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Re: Race to the MVP. 

Post#53 » by Jazzfan12 » Thu Nov 8, 2012 4:47 pm

Heat are easily the #1 seed without LeBron.

LeBron is still the MVP though.
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Re: Race to the MVP. 

Post#54 » by TheGarden » Thu Nov 8, 2012 4:48 pm

mademan wrote:Miami without Lebron is on the same level as a team like (healthy) Indiana from last year or Denver. Top 4 seed likely, but not an actual threat to win. There's no way anybody would consider them a contender.


But I thought Dwyane Wade was a top 5 player, Bosh was a what 24 and 10 guy prior to getting to Miami

LeBron does so much of everything he lowers his teammates numbers significantly he's just that dominate but without them the Heat are still a threat and no one can say they aren't
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Re: Race to the MVP. 

Post#55 » by final » Thu Nov 8, 2012 5:01 pm

I think it is more impressive to put up stats with more stars/help. If you have more help that means they are helping you with rebounding, scoring, assist, etc so stats are going to be lower.

Durant has big defensive help with Perkins, Ibaka, and Sefolosha but they are not big scorers so Durant and Westbrook are going to be chucking away. While teams like Celtics and Heat who have big star scorers will have lower stats for their stars. I see LBJ, Wade, and Bosh having around career lows in scoring this season because of improved PG play and bench.

Lebron and Paul I think have the best chance.
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Re: Race to the MVP. 

Post#56 » by TheGarden » Thu Nov 8, 2012 5:13 pm

final wrote:I think it is more impressive to put up stats with more stars/help. If you have more help that means they are helping you with rebounding, scoring, assist, etc so stats are going to be lower.

Durant has big defensive help with Perkins, Ibaka, and Sefolosha but they are not big scorers so Durant and Westbrook are going to be chucking away. While teams like Celtics and Heat who have big star scorers will have lower stats for their stars. I see LBJ, Wade, and Bosh having around career lows in scoring this season because of improved PG play and bench.

Lebron and Paul I think have the best chance.


its easier to put up great stats with more help just less likely if everyone takes a step back ala Team USA

but in Miami LeBron still plays like he did in Cleveland just with maximum help on both ends

last year no doubt he was MVP, guys were in a slump, Wade wasn't himself and LeBron was the main force pushing them in the regular season

But this year no way he gets it if things remain the same, like I said its becoming a best stats award might as well have an MVP and Offensive Player of the Year Award
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Re: Race to the MVP. 

Post#57 » by mademan » Thu Nov 8, 2012 5:13 pm

TheGarden wrote:
mademan wrote:Miami without Lebron is on the same level as a team like (healthy) Indiana from last year or Denver. Top 4 seed likely, but not an actual threat to win. There's no way anybody would consider them a contender.


But I thought Dwyane Wade was a top 5 player, Bosh was a what 24 and 10 guy prior to getting to Miami

LeBron does so much of everything he lowers his teammates numbers significantly he's just that dominate but without them the Heat are still a threat and no one can say they aren't


How is their rebounding and defense without Lebron? They'll be forced to start Joel at center making them a much worse offensive team. I'm not saying they'll completely self-destruct without Lebron, but they become pretenders without him. They go from clear-cut best team in the East, to "in the mix".
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Re: Race to the MVP. 

Post#58 » by ShowTimeERA » Thu Nov 8, 2012 5:15 pm

mademan wrote:Miami without Lebron is on the same level as a team like (healthy) Indiana from last year or Denver. Top 4 seed likely, but not an actual threat to win. There's no way anybody would consider them a contender.


You don't get to choose and pick stipulations to suit your opinion. If you remove every teams best player from their respective team, which team/s would still be a championship contender. The only teams on that list should be Miami/LAL, even though LA isn't playing up to par yet. With your example, Indy would lose Hibbert and Denver would lose either Iggy or Lawson which would clearly put them at the bottom of the pack. Miami and LA on both paper and actual production have too much talent for one of their players to be considered MVP especially when you have Durant, Melo, Paul playing great with much less star talent around them.

Regardless its still too early to determine who the MVP should or should not be.
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Re: Race to the MVP. 

Post#59 » by This IsMy House » Thu Nov 8, 2012 5:29 pm

Jazzfan12 wrote:Heat are easily the #1 seed without LeBron.

LeBron is still the MVP though.

Easily the #1? :o Melo does enough damage as it is against Miami WITH LeBron, imagine if they didnt have him to somewhat slow him down.
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Re: Race to the MVP. 

Post#60 » by NYK_89 » Thu Nov 8, 2012 5:34 pm

ShowTimeERA wrote:
NYK_89 wrote:



Putting up the best stats in the league with 2 other all stars is pretty impressive in its own


Durant's stats are just as impressive with even less help. You need to take everything into context, lets put other superstars in lebrons position and let's watch them flourish as well.

What part of Durants stats are more impressive.... They score about the same with lebron taking less shots on higher efficiency, have identical rebounding numbers, lebron puts out about 3 more assists a game and is in another league defensively.. not to mention Lebron having less turnovers despite playing with the ball an absurd amount more..
Also i feel you completely miss the point as stats are inflated when you don't have help, want do you really think on a team like Cleveland he could have put up 30/7.6/8.5???

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