Race to the MVP.

theokie · Post #1521 » by **theokie** » Fri Dec 7, 2012 5:42 am

TheGarden wrote:
No one RealGM has a vote so anything you guys say means nothing

I guess we should close the thread then :roll:

TheGarden · Post #1522 » by **TheGarden** » Fri Dec 7, 2012 5:50 am

theokie wrote:
TheGarden wrote:
No one RealGM has a vote so anything you guys say means nothing

I guess we should close the thread then

its a discussion thread but guys saying Melo has no shot when the people who vote on the award are saying he has a shot makes anything regarding Carmelo you guys say wrong

RealGM- Carmelo is not a superstar
Media- Carmelo is a top 5 player in this league

RealGM- Its a 2 man race
Media- Carmelo is a frontrunner for MVP

come on man

fallacy · Post #1523 » by **fallacy** » Fri Dec 7, 2012 5:56 am

TheGarden wrote:
theokie wrote:
TheGarden wrote:
No one RealGM has a vote so anything you guys say means nothing

I guess we should close the thread then

its a discussion thread but guys saying Melo has no shot when the people who vote on the award are saying he has a shot makes anything regarding Carmelo you guys say wrong

RealGM- Carmelo is not a superstar
Media- Carmelo is a top 5 player in this league

RealGM- Its a 2 man race
Media- Carmelo is a frontrunner for MVP

come on man

What media? I haven't seen anyone put Melo number one. He's third (as he should be) in nba.com mvp ranking

http://www.nba.com/mvp-ladder/2012-13/index.html

theokie · Post #1524 » by **theokie** » Fri Dec 7, 2012 5:57 am

TheGarden wrote:
theokie wrote:
TheGarden wrote:
No one RealGM has a vote so anything you guys say means nothing

I guess we should close the thread then

its a discussion thread but guys saying Melo has no shot when the people who vote on the award are saying he has a shot makes anything regarding Carmelo you guys say wrong

RealGM- Carmelo is not a superstar
Media- Carmelo is a top 5 player in this league

RealGM- Its a 2 man race
Media- Carmelo is a frontrunner for MVP

come on man

Pretty sure most people posting on here say carmelo is a superstar and that its not a 2 man race. Just because most people don't have him in the top 2 doesn't mean he's not in the conversation.

You're overgeneralizing realGM when one person says something, not all of realGM has the same opinion thats against yours.

Same with the media. Just because you might have heard 1 person say he's the MVP it doesn't mean they all do. In fact i can't find any list that has Carmelo as the frontrunner so i don't know where you're getting you information from.

http://www.nba.com/mvp-ladder/2012-13/index.html

Carmelo is 3rd behind KD and LeBron

http://dimemag.com/2012/12/the-top-10-n ... -week-1/9/

Carmelo is 3rd behind KD and LeBron

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/lists/top- ... o=31457053

Carmelo is 3rd behind KD and LeBron

First three links i clicked on, but i could keep going I'm sure.

TheGarden · Post #1525 » by **TheGarden** » Fri Dec 7, 2012 6:02 am

3rd out of 300+ players in the league, 3rd is a frontrunner he is top 3 and can move up come on now, no one is saying he's #1 but he has a chance, admit that and we can stop this on going discussion

wait Carmelo cant be MVP because theokie, fallacy and 28reloaded said so

MaliBrah · Post #1526 » by **MaliBrah** » Fri Dec 7, 2012 6:05 am

1.KD
2.Lebron
3.Melo

fallacy · Post #1527 » by **fallacy** » Fri Dec 7, 2012 6:06 am

TheGarden wrote:3rd out of 300+ players in the league, 3rd is a frontrunner he is top 3 and can move up come on now, no one is saying he's #1 but he has a chance, admit that and we can stop this on going discussion

wait Carmelo cant be MVP because theokie, fallacy and 28reloaded said so

I don't know about the others but I never said that Melo can't be MVP, it's just going to take a ton of stuff for him to pass Lebron and Durant. The fact that the Knicks destroyed Miami with him sitting on the bench doesn't help his cause of being "valuable" either.

It will be tough to pass lebron because lebron is obviously the best player in the NBA

It will be tough to pass Durant because Durant is better statistically in nearly every category.

theokie · Post #1528 » by **theokie** » Fri Dec 7, 2012 6:06 am

TheGarden wrote:3rd out of 300+ players in the league, 3rd is a frontrunner he is top 3 and can move up come on now, no one is saying he's #1 but he has a chance, admit that and we can stop this on going discussion

wait Carmelo cant be MVP because theokie, fallacy and 28reloaded said so

Look up front runner in the dictionary

I don't know how many times i have to say Carmelo is in the discussion and has a great chance to be the MVP for you to be satisfied. I know i don't have a vote. I also don't have some warped delusional mind where I pretend that the media agrees with me when they don't.

TheGarden · Post #1529 » by **TheGarden** » Fri Dec 7, 2012 6:46 am

Since both have you have done what was asked, thank you

as for his case

vs Durant- stats may or may not hurt him. Carmelo is just trying to win and thats something voters will like. However there main numbers aren't to far off, pretty much equal in points, 1-2 rebounds less for Melo, 2 assists less for Melo and the FG% is somewhat reachable but the impact he's having on a 14-4 team is tremendous

vs LeBron- the media saying the Heat are coasting and giving LeBron big ups for MVP shouldn't even go to together. If he's not playing hard regardless of his numbers why give him the award. Its not fair to the guys putting it all on the line every night.

Krodis · Post #1530 » by **Krodis** » Fri Dec 7, 2012 6:52 am

And the impact Durant is having on a 15-4 team is what, chopped liver? The stats are pretty firmly in Durant's favor, too (although perhaps not totally overwhelmingly). Durant has maintained his normal scoring efficiency advantage over Melo so far, despite Melo's career year so far in that department, because Durant has an obscene TS% of .650. Likely to come down, though (and so is Melo's .570).

And, whether fair or not, today's game is not going to exactly help the argument that Carmelo is having some unseen-in-the-box-score massive impact and that his team is helpless without him.

TheGarden · Post #1531 » by **TheGarden** » Fri Dec 7, 2012 6:59 am

Krodis wrote:And the impact Durant is having on a 15-4 team is what, chopped liver? The stats are pretty firmly in Durant's favor, too (although perhaps not totally overwhelmingly). Durant has maintained his normal scoring efficiency advantage over Melo so far, despite Melo's career year so far in that department, because Durant has an obscene TS% of .650. Likely to come down, though (and so is Melo's .570).

And, whether fair or not, today's game is not going to exactly help the argument that Carmelo is having some unseen-in-the-box-score massive impact and that his team is helpless without him.

heehee TS% yeah anyway, Carmelo's chances are similar to how Rose won. Durant is having a great statistical year and todays game wont hurt Melo's chances in the slightest. Durant would likely win today but I dont see his numbers holding up and I see Carmelo's pretty much staying this way with slight raises in rebounds/assists/FG%.

By the All-Star break we'll have a clear view of where guys are and then the top 3-5 candidates will likely battle it out for the rest of the season where playoff seeds and HCA become what guys are striving for

my current rankings

1. Kevin Durant
2. Carmelo Anthony
3. LeBron James
4. Tim Duncan
5. Zach Randolph

Krodis · Post #1532 » by **Krodis** » Fri Dec 7, 2012 7:02 am

Well, if you're going to assume that Durant is going to fall off (certainly possible, he's having a career year so far), that Melo is going to get BETTER (which seems unlikely, as he's ALREADY having a career year so far), and that the media is going to fuel a narrative like they did for Rose that caused Rose to win his MVP, then sure, Melo might win MVP...

I somehow don't see this happening.

TheGarden · Post #1533 » by **TheGarden** » Fri Dec 7, 2012 7:27 am

Krodis wrote:Well, if you're going to assume that Durant is going to fall off (certainly possible, he's having a career year so far), that Melo is going to get BETTER (which seems unlikely, as he's ALREADY having a career year so far), and that the media is going to fuel a narrative like they did for Rose that caused Rose to win his MVP, then sure, Melo might win MVP...

I somehow don't see this happening.

Carmelo's rebounding and assists numbers I think will rise when Amar'e comes back because less of a scoring load will allow him to do more. Durant's numbers right now are great but I see OKC making some subtle changes which may hinder either his scoring/rebounding/assists in some way.

However its also like for both Carmelo to improve and Durant to sustain his numbers but if that happens then Carmelo will get it. Its going to come down to the final lap and if the Knicks get the #1 seed in the East I think he gets it by default

OptimusOne6 · Post #1534 » by **OptimusOne6** » Fri Dec 7, 2012 11:18 am

It is Durant's trophy to lose. He is quite clearly the MVP this season and nobody is close at all. He has been predicted to be the MVP for the past 2 years but I think this time the predictions will be correct.

TheGarden wrote: Durant would likely win today but I dont see his numbers holding up and I see Carmelo's pretty much staying this way with slight raises in rebounds/assists/FG%.h

This is based on what? Durant is known to be incredibly consistent while Melo is known to be inconsistent. You have them mixed up but then again you are one of the few people the truly believe Melo is better than Durant so there is no changing your mind despite every evidence pointing that Durant is a lot better.

therealbig3 · Post #1535 » by **therealbig3** » Fri Dec 7, 2012 11:43 am

LeBron, per 36: 24.1 ppg, 8.8 rpg, 6.6 apg, 2.4 TOpg, 59.1% TS, 119 ORating

Durant, per 36: 24.3 ppg, 7.8 rpg, 4.0 apg, 3.0 TOpg, 64.9% TS, 122 ORating

And LeBron is coasting defensively, and he's still better on that end than Durant. Sorry, just don't see it. LeBron is still better, and the Heat and Thunder are pretty close in terms of record. If the Heat and Thunder end up with pretty much identical records as the two #1 seeds, then LeBron should win MVP, because he's a better player.

KDgoat · Post #1536 » by **KDgoat** » Fri Dec 7, 2012 11:55 am

Since when is "Lebron is coasting defensively" a positive argument in his favour for being MVP?

Thrashed by the Knicks without Melo. Yeah. Both Melo and Lebron took a dive today.

therealbig3 · Post #1537 » by **therealbig3** » Fri Dec 7, 2012 11:56 am

KDgoat wrote:Since when is "Lebron is coasting defensively" a positive argument in his favour for being MVP?

It wasn't...he's still better than KD though.

And LeBron tends to turn it up as the season goes on, so I expect him to play better defensively.

KDgoat wrote:Thrashed by the Knicks without Melo. Yeah. Both Melo and Lebron took a dive today.

And this right here is why I think most arguments for why someone should be MVP makes no sense. LeBron put up 31/11/9 on 65% TS. He played a monster game...the Knicks got hot from 3, and Wade/Bosh combined for 6-25 shooting. How is losing to the Knicks in any way on him?

And his team is still 12-5 vs 15-4 for the Thunder. That's a 2 game difference, and there's more than 3 quarters of a season to go. If they end up with similar records...LeBron is the better player, so he should win MVP.

Protoss · Post #1538 » by **Protoss** » Fri Dec 7, 2012 12:22 pm

Can't put Melo ahead of LBJ yet. He didn't even play so he deserves 0 credit for the Knicks win (which was really impressive). Not like LBJ had an awful game either.

So far, KD is ahead of LBJ by a couple of games. Then LBJ although he's falling fast. Too passive against the Wizards until late, although not really his fault against the Knicks. Melo probably 3rd for now though. One more Miami loss and Melo goes into 2nd though. It's just the way the MVP thing works. Of course, Miami is known to go on winstreaks too so it's still exciting.

bbms · Post #1539 » by **bbms** » Fri Dec 7, 2012 12:40 pm

My argument on why Melo should NOT win the MVP 2013 is the same as Rose's shouldn't have won in 2011. Chicago Bulls record was far more of a product from huge rebounding and defensive team. You took Rose out last season and they finished as top seed again.

Knicks success this season looks like offensive game(best offensive rating, third in shooting efficiency from the floor, eFG%, 1st in TOV%). Knicks doesn't turn the ball over and shoots really fine, with or without Melo, just like 2011 Bulls could defend and rebound with or without Rose. I'm still waiting to see if these stats are going to stand as the season goes on.

Melo and Rose have huge and significant roles for their teams, they carry the load of volume scoring on their back, but from a deep analysis you can't tell who's more valuable for them: the cast of role players, or the individual scoring machine.

Looking at Bulls record last season off Rose, you could see clearly Rose wasn't deserving the MVP over Dirk(check Mavs record off Dirk that year), Dwight(carried Magic for top4 seed and top5 defense alone) or LeBron(clear cut statistically best player at that year's regular season), just like I'm afraid Melo shouldn't win over Durant, LeBron and Duncan, who look clearly having better statistical season and more impact on team's record.

Melo 13 and Rose 11 are having the exact same history... I hope Melo because on a deep analysis, he doesn't have a strong case over other guys.

bbms · Post #1540 » by **bbms** » Fri Dec 7, 2012 12:48 pm

therealbig3 wrote:
KDgoat wrote:Since when is "Lebron is coasting defensively" a positive argument in his favour for being MVP?

It wasn't...he's still better than KD though.

And LeBron tends to turn it up as the season goes on, so I expect him to play better defensively.

KDgoat wrote:Thrashed by the Knicks without Melo. Yeah. Both Melo and Lebron took a dive today.

And this right here is why I think most arguments for why someone should be MVP makes no sense. LeBron put up 31/11/9 on 65% TS. He played a monster game...the Knicks got hot from 3, and Wade/Bosh combined for 6-25 shooting. How is losing to the Knicks in any way on him?

And his team is still 12-5 vs 15-4 for the Thunder. That's a 2 game difference, and there's more than 3 quarters of a season to go. If they end up with similar records...LeBron is the better player, so he should win MVP.

He's better than KD but he isn't playing better than KD at all. KD beats him in every on/off stats. The difference of Thunder's performance between time with Durant and without Durant is objectively much greater than the difference of Heat's performance at playing time on/off LeBron, and this put Durant in a situation to be clearly more valuable for his team than LeBron.