yardbarker

NCAA Wiretap Headlines

Race to the MVP.

Moderators: Morten Jensen, Blame Rasho, tsherkin, Doctor MJ, Flash3, UGA Hayes, Basti, KingCuban, NO-KG-AI, Yuri Vaultin, magnumt

Post#511 Re: Race to the MVP.
Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:20 am by te887848

Carmelo isn't even close to MVP. Subpar shooting percentages and less than 2 assists per game don't stand out as MVP-level stats. It's not like he scores more than LeBron either. LeBron is drastically better at literally every category there is. Currently LeBron is the runaway #1 (though that could change later on), followed by Paul/Kobe/Durant in some order.
te887848
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,377
And1: 149
Joined: May 15, 2010
Top

Post#512 Re: Race to the MVP.
Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:37 am by SweetTouch

Yeah Kidd and JR Smith are higher on my list than MELO
Stop being so disrespectful.
SweetTouch
RealGM
Posts: 18,079
And1: 1,413
Joined: Mar 29, 2010
Location: Fl
Top

Post#513 Re: Race to the MVP.
Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:17 am by 28reloaded

Maybe I'm missing something, but how exactly is LeBron a runaway at this point?

OKC 7-3
Miami 7-3

Durant 25/10/4/2/2 62 TS% leading league in defensive win shares
LeBron 25/9/7/1/1 59 TS%
28reloaded
Rookie
Posts: 1,039
And1: 10
Joined: Aug 15, 2011
Top

Post#514 Re: Race to the MVP.
Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:12 am by kamelion4291

28reloaded wrote:Maybe I'm missing something, but how exactly is LeBron a runaway at this point?

OKC 7-3
Miami 7-3

Durant 25/10/4/2/2 62 TS% leading league in defensive win shares
LeBron 25/9/7/1/1 59 TS%


Because defensive win shares are not a good stat to point to a guy and say "Player A has more win shares than Player B therefore he's a better defensive player". LeBron is also making huge clutch plays at the end of close games for wins. As far as comparing stat lines, LeBron has 5 more PER than Durant does. That isn't a small gap.
kamelion4291
Banned User
Posts: 1,302
And1: 58
Joined: Dec 21, 2011
Top

Post#515 Re: Race to the MVP.
Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:29 am by Woodsanity

dub81 wrote:So far I have Rudy Gay in the West..He put up crazy number against Lebron, Melo and Durant. He's having a great season. I know it does help that he has the best FC in the NBA..

Lol no. No way do I take him over CP3 or Durant.
twix2500 wrote:If Lebron went to NY and Melo to Miami, Melo would have a trophy and Lebron would not.

Tiesto_Lakers wrote:The more I watch basketball, the more I realize that Kobe, in his absolute prime (2006-2008), was a top 2 player of all-time, only second to Jordan.
Woodsanity

Head Coach
User avatar
Posts: 7,491
And1: 1,080
Joined: Mar 30, 2012
Top

Post#516 Re: Race to the MVP.
Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:33 am by 28reloaded

kamelion4291 wrote:
Because defensive win shares are not a good stat to point to a guy and say "Player A has more win shares than Player B therefore he's a better defensive player". LeBron is also making huge clutch plays at the end of close games for wins. As far as comparing stat lines, LeBron has 5 more PER than Durant does. That isn't a small gap.


Opposing SF's have a 56.4 eFG% against LeBron up to this point and a PER of 14.4
Opposing SF's have a 44.4 eFG% against Durant up to this point and a PER of 7.4

Durant is averaging twice the amount of blocks/steals and players are shooting a laughable 17% vs him in ISO sets.

Clearly the defensive gap is ASTRONOMICAL. :lol:

As for crunch time, Durant is shooting 56% with a whopping 67 TS%. Clearly he's lacking in the clutch/end of games.

Finally PER...According to PER, Jordan wasn't even close to the league's MVP from 95-98. As a matter of fact, according to PER Davis Robinson should have been a 3X MVP winner and is the 4th greatest player of all time.
28reloaded
Rookie
Posts: 1,039
And1: 10
Joined: Aug 15, 2011
Top

Post#517 Re: Race to the MVP.
Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:34 am by 28reloaded

dub81 wrote:So far I have Rudy Gay in the West..He put up crazy number against Lebron, Melo and Durant. He's having a great season. I know it does help that he has the best FC in the NBA..


20/6/2 on 49 TS%...those aren't even all star worthy numbers
28reloaded
Rookie
Posts: 1,039
And1: 10
Joined: Aug 15, 2011
Top

Post#518 Re: Race to the MVP.
Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:58 am by bigboi

nikomCH wrote:
TheGarden wrote:http://www.nba.com/mvp-ladder/2012-13/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt6a

1. LeBron James
2. Chris Paul
3. Carmelo Anthony
4. Kevin Durant
5. Zach Randolph
6. James Harden
7. Tony Parker
8. Kobe Bryant
9. Rajon Rondo
10. Brandon Jennings


No Duncan? Joke list


TP shouldn't even be on the list IMO. Once Lakers start winning, Kobe finishes top 5
tlee324 wrote:
Lebron made it to the finals with that cleveland team.

Bird would have won 4 rings with that team, in this weak ass era of basketball.
bigboi
Analyst
Posts: 3,320
And1: 185
Joined: Nov 4, 2010
Top

Post#519 Re: Race to the MVP.
Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:59 am by Krodis

28reloaded wrote:
dub81 wrote:So far I have Rudy Gay in the West..He put up crazy number against Lebron, Melo and Durant. He's having a great season. I know it does help that he has the best FC in the NBA..


20/6/2 on 49 TS%...those aren't even all star worthy numbers

Not to mention Gasol and Randolph are obviously playing better on the same team.
Krodis
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,793
And1: 48
Joined: Nov 28, 2009
Top

Post#520 Re: Race to the MVP.
Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:27 am by fallacy

28reloaded wrote:
kamelion4291 wrote:
Because defensive win shares are not a good stat to point to a guy and say "Player A has more win shares than Player B therefore he's a better defensive player". LeBron is also making huge clutch plays at the end of close games for wins. As far as comparing stat lines, LeBron has 5 more PER than Durant does. That isn't a small gap.


Opposing SF's have a 56.4 eFG% against LeBron up to this point and a PER of 14.4
Opposing SF's have a 44.4 eFG% against Durant up to this point and a PER of 7.4

Durant is averaging twice the amount of blocks/steals and players are shooting a laughable 17% vs him in ISO sets.

Clearly the defensive gap is ASTRONOMICAL. :lol:

As for crunch time, Durant is shooting 56% with a whopping 67 TS%. Clearly he's lacking in the clutch/end of games.



Daaaamn. Durant better defensively than offensively? :lol:
**** Ron Artest
**** Marco Belinelli
Stephen Jackson aint bout dis lyfe
Patrick Beverly deserves to have his knee ripped to pieces
fallacy




RealGM
User avatar
Posts: 10,415
And1: 517
Joined: Jan 11, 2010
Top

Post#521 Re: Race to the MVP.
Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:04 pm by C-izMe

te887848 wrote:Carmelo isn't even close to MVP. Subpar shooting percentages and less than 2 assists per game don't stand out as MVP-level stats. It's not like he scores more than LeBron either. LeBron is drastically better at literally every category there is. Currently LeBron is the runaway #1 (though that could change later on), followed by Paul/Kobe/Durant in some order.

Did the definition of subpar change recently? He's above average.


Also did you see the team without him yesterday? He's clearly very important to their success (19-1 run when he left in the 3rd quarter. He was guarding Marc Gasol last night and still led the team and have them a chance to win late.
C-izMe
Head Coach
Posts: 6,690
And1: 15
Joined: Dec 10, 2011
Location: Rodman's Rainbow Obamaburger
Top

Post#522 Re: Race to the MVP.
Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:19 pm by swag2011

28reloaded wrote:Maybe I'm missing something, but how exactly is LeBron a runaway at this point?

OKC 7-3
Miami 7-3

Durant 25/10/4/2/2 62 TS% leading league in defensive win shares
LeBron 25/9/7/1/1 59 TS%


Exactly. People are just saying "omg lebron's far and far away the best player" when the stats are suggesting otherwise. Is he the best player in the league? Sure. Is he a top candidate for MVP like every year? Absolutely. But i fail to see how he's separated himself from Durant/Kobe/Paul and even Duncan as the for sure runaway MVP at this point. And honestly Lebron's defense hasn't been as impressive as it was last year so i don't think you can really use that either imo.

I would say it's Lebron/Durant/Paul the top choices and Duncan/Rondo/Kobe/Melo in some order in the second group. Melo's shooting percentages are poor, and the Lakers/Celtics poor records haven't completely put kobe/rondo in the race yet.
swag2011
Senior
Posts: 508
And1: 17
Joined: May 31, 2012
Top

Post#523 Re: Race to the MVP.
Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:21 pm by Tien

shobe_24 wrote:
fallacy wrote:
nmabdi28 wrote:seems like the only flaw in lebron's game now is his freethrow shooting , needs to correct that!


His field goal percentage is within 13 percentage points of his free throw percentage. I don't know if any perimeter player that I can remember was that good from the field and that bad from the line. Rondo maybe?


Most of his field goals come from layups and dunks. He was abysmal in the playoffs last year from mid-long range aside from 1 game against Boston.

Once his athleticism declines, he will be noticably worse as you can see in Wade already.


It's funny because once he gets older and athleticism declines, he can easily morph himself into a 10 assist per game point forward.

Averaging 20ppg / 10 assists / 5 rebounds. That's still elite in this league. He's playing at high level until he's 37/38 barring injuries.
Tien
Banned User
Posts: 1,304
And1: 51
Joined: Feb 27, 2012
Top

Post#524 Re: Race to the MVP.
Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:25 pm by MrHidden

28reloaded wrote:Maybe I'm missing something, but how exactly is LeBron a runaway at this point?

OKC 7-3
Miami 7-3

Durant 25/10/4/2/2 62 TS% leading league in defensive win shares
LeBron 25/9/7/1/1 59 TS%


yeah really 2 steals and 2 blocks and why donĀ“t you show TOV? :lol:

true is :
Durant 24,5/10,2/4,1/1,6/1,5 4,0 TOV 62,1 % TS and 25,7 PER playing 38,7 mpg
LeBron 24,8/9,2/6,8/0,8/1,1 and only 2,2 TOV 59,4 % TS and 30,4 PER playing 35,9 mpg
see the diference ??

LeBron is better
MrHidden
Suspended
Posts: 2,393
And1: 11
Joined: Apr 1, 2011
Top

Post#525 Re: Race to the MVP.
Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:01 pm by TheGarden

C-izMe wrote:
te887848 wrote:Carmelo isn't even close to MVP. Subpar shooting percentages and less than 2 assists per game don't stand out as MVP-level stats. It's not like he scores more than LeBron either. LeBron is drastically better at literally every category there is. Currently LeBron is the runaway #1 (though that could change later on), followed by Paul/Kobe/Durant in some order.

Did the definition of subpar change recently? He's above average.


Also did you see the team without him yesterday? He's clearly very important to their success (19-1 run when he left in the 3rd quarter. He was guarding Marc Gasol last night and still led the team and have them a chance to win late.


exactly, when he went out with that 4th foul the team fell apart.

Last night

Carmelo was a +2, not a big number but look at the rest of the rotation

Brewer -9
Chandler -9
Felton -21
Kidd -8
Smith -8
Wallace -15
Novak +6

He shot 7/14, 1/2 3's, 5/5 FT's for 20 points and never got the benefit of the whistle last night

People say its more of the team playing well more than him leading and last night proved otherwise, they feed off of the attention Melo receives and the fact that he makes the right passes out of double teams

as far as his assists numbers, he's playing power forward. When has a PF ever averaged a ton of assists, they get doubled make a pass that leads to a pass for a score

the game is more than numbers how many times do we have to say this
TheGarden
Banned User
Posts: 10,478
And1: 1,155
Joined: Jun 10, 2012
Top

Post#526 Re: Race to the MVP.
Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:06 pm by TheGarden

I try to watch as much non-Knick games as I can because I'm not a stat junkie so I'll say right now

1. LeBron James
2. Chris Paul
3. Zach Randolph
4/5/6/7- Kobe/Melo/Duncan/Durant in some order
TheGarden
Banned User
Posts: 10,478
And1: 1,155
Joined: Jun 10, 2012
Top

Post#527 Re: Race to the MVP.
Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:14 pm by donnieme

TheGarden wrote:
C-izMe wrote:
te887848 wrote:Carmelo isn't even close to MVP. Subpar shooting percentages and less than 2 assists per game don't stand out as MVP-level stats. It's not like he scores more than LeBron either. LeBron is drastically better at literally every category there is. Currently LeBron is the runaway #1 (though that could change later on), followed by Paul/Kobe/Durant in some order.

Did the definition of subpar change recently? He's above average.


Also did you see the team without him yesterday? He's clearly very important to their success (19-1 run when he left in the 3rd quarter. He was guarding Marc Gasol last night and still led the team and have them a chance to win late.


exactly, when he went out with that 4th foul the team fell apart.

Last night

Carmelo was a +2, not a big number but look at the rest of the rotation

Brewer -9
Chandler -9
Felton -21
Kidd -8
Smith -8
Wallace -15
Novak +6

He shot 7/14, 1/2 3's, 5/5 FT's for 20 points and never got the benefit of the whistle last night

People say its more of the team playing well more than him leading and last night proved otherwise, they feed off of the attention Melo receives and the fact that he makes the right passes out of double teams

as far as his assists numbers, he's playing power forward. When has a PF ever averaged a ton of assists, they get doubled make a pass that leads to a pass for a score

the game is more than numbers how many times do we have to say this

True this, but don't overstate it. Chandler also went out with foul trouble around that period after the refs decided to get whistle-happy on the knicks. Rasheed also got tagged with a 5th foul in the 3rd quarter as well i think, allowing memphis frontline to have their way on the inside. But I get what you're saying though, they ran out of ideas and could have done with some melo-magic. His impact or potential-impact shouldn't be overlooked.
donnieme
Junior
Posts: 458
And1: 186
Joined: Feb 27, 2012
Top

Post#528 Re: Race to the MVP.
Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:21 pm by TheGarden

I feel you but even still Chandler was getting killed by Randolph and Sheed couldn't do much with Gasol anyway. I just felt like if Carmelo never got those cheap fouls we win that game and his numbers are better.

I just dont like how people attribute our wins to the team play yet Miami and OKC are only winning because LeBron and Durant are carrying them
TheGarden
Banned User
Posts: 10,478
And1: 1,155
Joined: Jun 10, 2012
Top

Post#529 Re: Race to the MVP.
Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:33 pm by WinisKing

TheGarden wrote:I feel you but even still Chandler was getting killed by Randolph and Sheed couldn't do much with Gasol anyway. I just felt like if Carmelo never got those cheap fouls we win that game and his numbers are better.

I just dont like how people attribute our wins to the team play yet Miami and OKC are only winning because LeBron and Durant are carrying them

That is fairly accurate, Lebron is carrying Miami indeed
Image
WinisKing
Analyst
User avatar
Posts: 3,433
And1: 1,048
Joined: Jun 21, 2012
Top

Post#530 Re: Race to the MVP.
Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:41 pm by donnieme

TheGarden wrote:I feel you but even still Chandler was getting killed by Randolph and Sheed couldn't do much with Gasol anyway. I just felt like if Carmelo never got those cheap fouls we win that game and his numbers are better.

I just dont like how people attribute our wins to the team play yet Miami and OKC are only winning because LeBron and Durant are carrying them

Yea, after a few games, I felt people were awarding James Mvp nominations too easily when he hadn't done much special. But of recent, he's really uped it, and I'm talking about his clutch, game winning roles in some of the recent games he's played. What Carmelo needs is a strong game winning performance to restake his claim for MVP at this stage of the season. He already has the W's. I already said earlier that I felt wade is just gonna keep coasting and it would cost miami a better record for lebron's MVP case but I can't see into the future so let's just see.
donnieme
Junior
Posts: 458
And1: 186
Joined: Feb 27, 2012
Top

PreviousNext

Return to The General Board


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Cujo, Doddage, Hijinks, homersimpson, MistyMountain20, Nightperzon, Pb, PowerSteele, Salieri, VicG