Race to the MVP.

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TheGarden
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Re: Race to the MVP. 

Post#526 » by TheGarden » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:06 pm

I try to watch as much non-Knick games as I can because I'm not a stat junkie so I'll say right now

1. LeBron James
2. Chris Paul
3. Zach Randolph
4/5/6/7- Kobe/Melo/Duncan/Durant in some order
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Re: Race to the MVP. 

Post#527 » by donnieme » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:14 pm

TheGarden wrote:
C-izMe wrote:
te887848 wrote:Carmelo isn't even close to MVP. Subpar shooting percentages and less than 2 assists per game don't stand out as MVP-level stats. It's not like he scores more than LeBron either. LeBron is drastically better at literally every category there is. Currently LeBron is the runaway #1 (though that could change later on), followed by Paul/Kobe/Durant in some order.

Did the definition of subpar change recently? He's above average.


Also did you see the team without him yesterday? He's clearly very important to their success (19-1 run when he left in the 3rd quarter. He was guarding Marc Gasol last night and still led the team and have them a chance to win late.


exactly, when he went out with that 4th foul the team fell apart.

Last night

Carmelo was a +2, not a big number but look at the rest of the rotation

Brewer -9
Chandler -9
Felton -21
Kidd -8
Smith -8
Wallace -15
Novak +6

He shot 7/14, 1/2 3's, 5/5 FT's for 20 points and never got the benefit of the whistle last night

People say its more of the team playing well more than him leading and last night proved otherwise, they feed off of the attention Melo receives and the fact that he makes the right passes out of double teams

as far as his assists numbers, he's playing power forward. When has a PF ever averaged a ton of assists, they get doubled make a pass that leads to a pass for a score

the game is more than numbers how many times do we have to say this

True this, but don't overstate it. Chandler also went out with foul trouble around that period after the refs decided to get whistle-happy on the knicks. Rasheed also got tagged with a 5th foul in the 3rd quarter as well i think, allowing memphis frontline to have their way on the inside. But I get what you're saying though, they ran out of ideas and could have done with some melo-magic. His impact or potential-impact shouldn't be overlooked.
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Re: Race to the MVP. 

Post#528 » by TheGarden » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:21 pm

I feel you but even still Chandler was getting killed by Randolph and Sheed couldn't do much with Gasol anyway. I just felt like if Carmelo never got those cheap fouls we win that game and his numbers are better.

I just dont like how people attribute our wins to the team play yet Miami and OKC are only winning because LeBron and Durant are carrying them
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Re: Race to the MVP. 

Post#529 » by WinisKing » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:33 pm

TheGarden wrote:I feel you but even still Chandler was getting killed by Randolph and Sheed couldn't do much with Gasol anyway. I just felt like if Carmelo never got those cheap fouls we win that game and his numbers are better.

I just dont like how people attribute our wins to the team play yet Miami and OKC are only winning because LeBron and Durant are carrying them

That is fairly accurate, Lebron is carrying Miami indeed
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Re: Race to the MVP. 

Post#530 » by donnieme » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:41 pm

TheGarden wrote:I feel you but even still Chandler was getting killed by Randolph and Sheed couldn't do much with Gasol anyway. I just felt like if Carmelo never got those cheap fouls we win that game and his numbers are better.

I just dont like how people attribute our wins to the team play yet Miami and OKC are only winning because LeBron and Durant are carrying them

Yea, after a few games, I felt people were awarding James Mvp nominations too easily when he hadn't done much special. But of recent, he's really uped it, and I'm talking about his clutch, game winning roles in some of the recent games he's played. What Carmelo needs is a strong game winning performance to restake his claim for MVP at this stage of the season. He already has the W's. I already said earlier that I felt wade is just gonna keep coasting and it would cost miami a better record for lebron's MVP case but I can't see into the future so let's just see.
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Re: Race to the MVP. 

Post#531 » by Xekana » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:48 pm

SweetTouch wrote:Yeah Kidd and JR Smith are higher on my list than MELO


Lol

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boateng wrote: I don't see much of a difference between Melo and Jo Johnson. Both all stars but that's it.
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Re: Race to the MVP. 

Post#532 » by TheGarden » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:56 pm

donnieme wrote:
TheGarden wrote:I feel you but even still Chandler was getting killed by Randolph and Sheed couldn't do much with Gasol anyway. I just felt like if Carmelo never got those cheap fouls we win that game and his numbers are better.

I just dont like how people attribute our wins to the team play yet Miami and OKC are only winning because LeBron and Durant are carrying them

Yea, after a few games, I felt people were awarding James Mvp nominations too easily when he hadn't done much special. But of recent, he's really uped it, and I'm talking about his clutch, game winning roles in some of the recent games he's played. What Carmelo needs is a strong game winning performance to restake his claim for MVP at this stage of the season. He already has the W's. I already said earlier that I felt wade is just gonna keep coasting and it would cost miami a better record for lebron's MVP case but I can't see into the future so let's just see.


Yeah Carmelo is going to need some of those signature games, playoff type performances to get his value up.
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Re: Race to the MVP. 

Post#533 » by og15 » Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:44 pm

28reloaded wrote:
dub81 wrote:So far I have Rudy Gay in the West..He put up crazy number against Lebron, Melo and Durant. He's having a great season. I know it does help that he has the best FC in the NBA..


20/6/2 on 49 TS%...those aren't even all star worthy numbers

It's the wrong assumption that some people make that the leading scorer of a team is the best player or leader of the team. Rudy Gay is one of the pieces but isn't the best player on his team, let alone an MVP candidate.

C-izMe wrote:
te887848 wrote:Carmelo isn't even close to MVP. Subpar shooting percentages and less than 2 assists per game don't stand out as MVP-level stats. It's not like he scores more than LeBron either. LeBron is drastically better at literally every category there is. Currently LeBron is the runaway #1 (though that could change later on), followed by Paul/Kobe/Durant in some order.

Did the definition of subpar change recently? He's above average.


Also did you see the team without him yesterday? He's clearly very important to their success (19-1 run when he left in the 3rd quarter. He was guarding Marc Gasol last night and still led the team and have them a chance to win late.
i think he might have been right. Carmelo is shooting 43.9% FG, league average is 44.3%, 32.3% 3PT, league average is 34.9%, .478 eFG%, league average is .484. He'll be fine though, hopefully, and of course he will be important to the team, so it's okay.
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Re: Race to the MVP. 

Post#534 » by TheGarden » Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:14 pm

His numbers will go up when STAT comes back, less double teams will help that remember last night Memphis played him well but he still shot 50% and since this number is so important his TS% was 61 I think last night
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Re: Race to the MVP. 

Post#535 » by EvilSperm » Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:15 pm

The more wins the lakers get, the more MVP votes Kobe will get
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Re: Race to the MVP. 

Post#536 » by kamelion4291 » Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:40 pm

TheGarden wrote:His numbers will go up when STAT comes back, less double teams will help that remember last night Memphis played him well but he still shot 50% and since this number is so important his TS% was 61 I think last night


He was pretty good offensively but 3 rebounds, 1 assist, and 5 turnovers isn't going to cut it. You can't be playing small ball at power forward and end the game at 3 rebounds. There's a reason why the Knicks are last in the NBA in rebounding and he's a huge reason for it.
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Re: Race to the MVP. 

Post#537 » by C-izMe » Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:18 am

og15 wrote:
28reloaded wrote:
dub81 wrote:So far I have Rudy Gay in the West..He put up crazy number against Lebron, Melo and Durant. He's having a great season. I know it does help that he has the best FC in the NBA..


20/6/2 on 49 TS%...those aren't even all star worthy numbers

It's the wrong assumption that some people make that the leading scorer of a team is the best player or leader of the team. Rudy Gay is one of the pieces but isn't the best player on his team, let alone an MVP candidate.

C-izMe wrote:
te887848 wrote:Carmelo isn't even close to MVP. Subpar shooting percentages and less than 2 assists per game don't stand out as MVP-level stats. It's not like he scores more than LeBron either. LeBron is drastically better at literally every category there is. Currently LeBron is the runaway #1 (though that could change later on), followed by Paul/Kobe/Durant in some order.

Did the definition of subpar change recently? He's above average.


Also did you see the team without him yesterday? He's clearly very important to their success (19-1 run when he left in the 3rd quarter. He was guarding Marc Gasol last night and still led the team and have them a chance to win late.
i think he might have been right. Carmelo is shooting 43.9% FG, league average is 44.3%, 32.3% 3PT, league average is 34.9%, .478 eFG%, league average is .484. He'll be fine though, hopefully, and of course he will be important to the team, so it's okay.

Use true shooting. It's points per shot attempt (including free throws). He's at 53.2. League average is 52.
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Re: Race to the MVP. 

Post#538 » by semi-sentient » Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:26 am

EvilSperm wrote:The more wins the lakers get, the more MVP votes Kobe will get


Kobe will be in the race once it's all said and done, but realistically he'll have to keep up his current production to have a real chance. I think the Lakers will have to a top 3 record in the league given the talent on their roster so they have a lot of catching up to do at this point.

As of right now I think LeBron is out in front and I'd probably put Durant 2nd. Duncan has a strong case for being in the top 3 so he seems as good a choice as any.

The MVP has traditionally come from a top 3 seed in the conference so right now it's entirely too premature to throw Kobe's name around.
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Re: Race to the MVP. 

Post#539 » by xStanton27 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:09 am

Kobe won't get ahead of Lebron or Durant.
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Re: Race to the MVP. 

Post#540 » by og15 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:04 am

C-izMe wrote:Use true shooting. It's points per shot attempt (including free throws). He's at 53.2. League average is 52.

I don't disagree about using TS%, it's what I usually use, but he said supbar shooting percentages, so he really wasn't wrong in that statement.
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Re: Race to the MVP. 

Post#541 » by Amare_1_Knicks » Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:43 am

Lakers win the West, Heat don't win the East and Kobe's putting up at least 26/5/4.5/1 on 45-46%FG( At least ) and I can see KObe getting it.
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Re: Race to the MVP. 

Post#542 » by TheGarden » Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:51 am

kamelion4291 wrote:
TheGarden wrote:His numbers will go up when STAT comes back, less double teams will help that remember last night Memphis played him well but he still shot 50% and since this number is so important his TS% was 61 I think last night


He was pretty good offensively but 3 rebounds, 1 assist, and 5 turnovers isn't going to cut it. You can't be playing small ball at power forward and end the game at 3 rebounds. There's a reason why the Knicks are last in the NBA in rebounding and he's a huge reason for it.


he second on the team in rebounding so how is he the problem

7.4 a game is fine for him, Tyson who averages 7.7 is the real problem
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Re: Race to the MVP. 

Post#543 » by Hero » Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:41 am

Amare_1_Knicks wrote:Lakers win the West, Heat don't win the East and Kobe's putting up at least 26/5/4.5/1 on 45-46%FG( At least ) and I can see KObe getting it.


Really? Lakers have no shot at winning the West. Cmon now.
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Re: Race to the MVP. 

Post#544 » by EvilSperm » Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:40 am

Hero wrote:
Amare_1_Knicks wrote:Lakers win the West, Heat don't win the East and Kobe's putting up at least 26/5/4.5/1 on 45-46%FG( At least ) and I can see KObe getting it.


Really? Lakers have no shot at winning the West. Cmon now.


Lakers will finish off with a record of 70-12

kobe will finish off with 30 ppg 6 rpg 6 apg on 52% FG 39% 3pfg 92% ft line and hell be mvp
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Re: Race to the MVP. 

Post#545 » by te887848 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:35 pm

The Lakers are definitely favorites to come out of the West and have a much better chance than the Grizzlies or Clippers. They should still finish ahead of the Thunder, but it's tough to say with Spurs as they are one of those teams like Chicago that doesn't coast in the regular season and plays to their max potential each and every game. But as last season showed, you don't need the 1st seed to win MVP. If the Lakers finish in the top 2-3 (guaranteed basically) and Kobe keeps scoring at high efficiency, I can only see LeBron with a case over him. And depending on where the Thunder finish, perhaps Durant too.

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