Jeremy Lin has been turned into Derek Fisher

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Ginger Bean
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Re: Jeremy Lin has been turned into Derek Fisher 

Post#121 » by Ginger Bean » Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:14 am

The problem is Asik, though he is a defensive beast. He's a liability on offense and can't keep the defenders honest. He can't catch lobs or roll hard to the basket. It's affecting both Harden and Lin's game.

Lin is having trouble finishing; don't know if it's the recovery from surgery or what. And I don't see much of the offensive arsenal he had during Linsanity, teardrops etc..

The coaches just want them shooting threes? I don't know... I think their idiocy is going to make both Harden and Lin look pretty bad by the end of the season, if they don't figure something out soon.
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Re: Jeremy Lin has been turned into Derek Fisher 

Post#122 » by postcall » Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:26 am

og15 wrote:
Krodis wrote:Lin has had plenty of opportunities to make plays with the ball, it's not like he's been playing exclusively off-ball. The Rockets need to install some plays to get Lin and Harden playing off each other more rather than just taking turns isolating.

Yea, the real issue is that they are using them as isolated pieces, not as a unit, but there's actually potential to use them as a unit, hopefully they figure it out, it's always nice to see teams figure out how to use their players together effectively.


He has a lower usaege rate than Douglas at this moment. Think about that. The coaching staff stated they want harden to be the primary ball handler and want Lin to spot up and shoot...he is not a SG or a volume scorer. He needs to get traded to a team with a decent coach. Houston staff have taken a good PG and have made him into a bad SG. They have also taken a great shooting guard and made him into a good PG. They are using Harden to replace Dragic SMH.
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Re: Jeremy Lin has been turned into Derek Fisher 

Post#123 » by bigbreakfast » Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:27 am

lol @ the haters. 2 weeks of linsanity is too small of a sample size... 1 airball is good indication he's overrated. ok.
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Re: Jeremy Lin has been turned into Derek Fisher 

Post#124 » by 13th Man » Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:53 am

bigbreakfast wrote:lol @ the haters. 2 weeks of linsanity is too small of a sample size... 1 airball is good indication he's overrated. ok.


What I've learned this season is that the Jeremy Lin hater-base greatly outnumber his support-base. Whenever Lin has a bad game or moment, threads like this pop up here and at Clutchfans (currently contains huge thread called, "Lin is a joke"). What's sad though is that it's the vet posters and even some mods that are the main perpetrators of these threads, often times guised under legit pretenses (such as this thread right here). I believe it's mostly due to the vet posters being either racist, or having insecurities of new Lin fans invading their space or a combination of both.

This last game is a prime example. I'm an objective Lin fan but I'm calling it as it is. Harden's series of ISO ball while the Rockets were leading was the main reason why the Heat were able to come back and overtake the Rockets late yet all the haters are harping over 1 airball. So if he hit the rim and missed, nobody would be saying anything but because it was an airball it was the difference maker in game? Just LOL.

Being a Rockets fan now, I like Harden as well and hope that both he and Lin will flourish. From what I see they can do so by letting Lin play PG and Harden SG as they did in their first 2 games together.
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Re: Jeremy Lin has been turned into Derek Fisher 

Post#125 » by jamesnamida » Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:05 am

his lack of penetration is alot worse than one air ball.
Dude needs to just go in, aggressive, but he's been looking slow, if he can't get back to pre-injury speed, he is going to be one of the weaker guards in the league. Might even be out of the league.

as the for the air ball, it was like 6 inches off. not a terrible miss if you actually play basketball.
It just means he gauged his distance wrong, somehow, probably because he didn't shoot in the 4th and was cold, because it should be ingrained in an NBA players mind the amount needed for a open 3. from 22-24 feet.
But the shot looked like it was on target, well aimed.
Now it would be a bigger problem if he clanked it way left or right. fixing that is alot harder than fixing distance control.

Distance control is mainly in the legs and some in the flicking
Aiming problems, well that's a whole bunch of different stuff. Tony Douglas is having aiming problems.
Those who play basketball here know what im talking about, when you airball but you're dead on the aim, its an easy fix.
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Re: Jeremy Lin has been turned into Derek Fisher 

Post#126 » by 13th Man » Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:14 am

jamesnamida wrote:his lack of penetration is alot worse than one air ball.
Dude needs to just go in, aggressive, but he's been looking slow, if he can't get back to pre-injury speed, he is going to be one of the weaker guards in the league. Might even be out of the league.

as the for the air ball, it was like 6 inches off. not a terrible miss if you actually play basketball.
It just means he gauged his distance wrong, somehow, probably because he didn't shoot in the 4th and was cold, because it should be ingrained in an NBA players mind the amount needed for a open 3. from 22-24 feet.
But the shot looked like it was on target, well aimed.
Now it would be a bigger problem if he clanked it way left or right. fixing that is alot harder than fixing distance control.

Distance control is mainly in the legs and some in the flicking
Aiming problems, well that's a whole bunch of different stuff. Tony Douglas is having aiming problems.
Those who play basketball here know what im talking about, when you airball but you're dead on the aim, its an easy fix.


I would tend to believe that it was more due to nerves or him choking than that he's that poor of a shooter. Remember that he was mentally rattled by the Heat last year, maybe that still has some lingering effects on him who knows? Besides this game where he shot 2 airballs how many have we seen him miss that badly before? Not many. If this was his normal shooting stroke, you wouldn't see him converting on 30% of his 3's it'd be less than 10%. So this is why I think it had more to do with nerves and lack of maturity/mental strength. He's not the first to shoot an airball in crunchtime nor will he be the last.

I think that people are making way too big of a deal out of this. I'd rather have a guy do the right thing and not execute than a guy who knowingly goes against the team's game plan. I don't blame Harden for ISO'ing so much if that was in the coach's plan but from what I saw and read, the last play was a designed play for Harden to pass to Lin then from Lin to Parsons for the buzzer beater but Harden decided to ignore the team's plan and go with it himself. If anything, fans that know the sport should be more annoyed at that than at Lin not executing a shot that he was supposed to take.
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Re: Jeremy Lin has been turned into Derek Fisher 

Post#127 » by 13th Man » Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:24 am

As for your predicament that he might be out of the league if he continues to go at this rate, I think that is a far stretch. For the most part, he's still playing decent ball, playing good D, one of top stealers, making great passes, shooting 90% from the stripe, controlling the pace of the game (when he brings the ball up). I don't think it's fair for people to expect Linsanity numbers with the Rockets, which is basically max-contract type numbers.

How come none of the haters talk about his nice steal on Bosh during the final minutes that lead to a Harden fast break dunk but all they can talk about is the airball?
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Re: Jeremy Lin has been turned into Derek Fisher 

Post#128 » by bigbreakfast » Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:49 am

13th Man wrote:
bigbreakfast wrote:lol @ the haters. 2 weeks of linsanity is too small of a sample size... 1 airball is good indication he's overrated. ok.


What I've learned this season is that the Jeremy Lin hater-base greatly outnumber his support-base. Whenever Lin has a bad game or moment, threads like this pop up here and at Clutchfans (currently contains huge thread called, "Lin is a joke"). What's sad though is that it's the vet posters and even some mods that are the main perpetrators of these threads, often times guised under legit pretenses (such as this thread right here). I believe it's mostly due to the vet posters being either racist, or having insecurities of new Lin fans invading their space or a combination of both.

This last game is a prime example. I'm an objective Lin fan but I'm calling it as it is. Harden's series of ISO ball while the Rockets were leading was the main reason why the Heat were able to come back and overtake the Rockets late yet all the haters are harping over 1 airball. So if he hit the rim and missed, nobody would be saying anything but because it was an airball it was the difference maker in game? Just LOL.

Being a Rockets fan now, I like Harden as well and hope that both he and Lin will flourish. From what I see they can do so by letting Lin play PG and Harden SG as they did in their first 2 games together.


you know, I just don't understand why people continue to find ways to hate on his popularity. I mean sure at the peak of linsanity ESPN was annoying with its 24/7 coverage, but it's over now. He's a solid young player that's going to have his ups and downs, there's no need to make a thread about him every week.

yes, the iso ball at the end was terrible. as talented as harden is, iso ball with harden is not going to win you many games.
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Re: Jeremy Lin has been turned into Derek Fisher 

Post#129 » by Ginger Bean » Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:21 am

The coaches seem determined to misuse him. Yeah, his shot is missing, and that's on Lin, but he's a rhythm player and will never find his shot as a spot-up shooter.
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Re: Jeremy Lin has been turned into Derek Fisher 

Post#130 » by DLaren » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:09 pm

bigbreakfast wrote:you know, I just don't understand why people continue to find ways to hate on his popularity. I mean sure at the peak of linsanity ESPN was annoying with its 24/7 coverage, but it's over now. He's a solid young player that's going to have his ups and downs, there's no need to make a thread about him every week.

yes, the iso ball at the end was terrible. as talented as harden is, iso ball with harden is not going to win you many games.


If Jeremy Lin supporters would stop trying to find ways to blame his teammates and/or coaches for Lin's shortcomings, maybe the rest of us wouldn't have to serve as a constant reminder of how mediocre he is.
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Re: Jeremy Lin has been turned into Derek Fisher 

Post#131 » by 13th Man » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:35 pm

DLaren wrote:
bigbreakfast wrote:you know, I just don't understand why people continue to find ways to hate on his popularity. I mean sure at the peak of linsanity ESPN was annoying with its 24/7 coverage, but it's over now. He's a solid young player that's going to have his ups and downs, there's no need to make a thread about him every week.

yes, the iso ball at the end was terrible. as talented as harden is, iso ball with harden is not going to win you many games.


If Jeremy Lin supporters would stop trying to find ways to blame his teammates and/or coaches for Lin's shortcomings, maybe the rest of us wouldn't have to serve as a constant reminder of how mediocre he is.


Just note that most if not all the Lin threads are created by the haters. The irony of Lin fans being an annoyance.
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Re: Jeremy Lin has been turned into Derek Fisher 

Post#132 » by Ginger Bean » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:50 pm

Chris frigging Paul would look mediocre in this offense. It is one of the worst in the league, though the defense is decent, which is why they haven't been blown out in games yet.

Asik is a liability on offense, so defenders are doubling/tripling the handler. Patterson is soft and hesitant to bang in the paint. Some games, it seems like Lin will get more rebounds than him.

Plus, outside shooting has been poor, so teams just pack the paint. Both Harden and Lin are less effective on this team.

It's easy to say Lin is overrated or marginal when you haven't watched the games, or understand how messed up this roster is.
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Re: Jeremy Lin has been turned into Derek Fisher 

Post#133 » by postcall » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:38 pm

Ginger Bean wrote:Chris frigging Paul would look mediocre in this offense. It is one of the worst in the league, though the defense is decent, which is why they haven't been blown out in games yet.

Asik is a liability on offense, so defenders are doubling/tripling the handler. Patterson is soft and hesitant to bang in the paint. Some games, it seems like Lin will get more rebounds than him.

Plus, outside shooting has been poor, so teams just pack the paint. Both Harden and Lin are less effective on this team.

It's easy to say Lin is overrated or marginal when you haven't watched the games, or understand how messed up this roster is.


After the first two games they decided that they were going to run the ball through Harden and the coaching staff has made it clear that they want Lin to defer to Harden every time. They want Lin to be a spot up shooter and no longer want him to initiate the offense. Listen to Sampson's comments about how he wants to utilize Lin. Watch the games and tell me I am wrong. He is a young player and they are crushing his development. They need to trade the guy or change coaching staff. Basically this reeks of the Tebow signing.
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Re: Jeremy Lin has been turned into Derek Fisher 

Post#134 » by dho4ever » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:49 pm

I don't understand the discussion on placing blame on why the Rockets lost to the Heat

The fact that it was a close game and they were leading is pretty good for the Rockets


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Re: Jeremy Lin has been turned into Derek Fisher 

Post#135 » by kakaman » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:03 pm

Honestly the Rockets are misusing Lin. He needs to be reunited with D'Antoni. Let Houston get Gasol and send Jeremy to LA, both teams will be much better.
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Re: Jeremy Lin has been turned into Derek Fisher 

Post#136 » by Ginger Bean » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:09 pm

kakaman wrote:Honestly the Rockets are misusing Lin. He needs to be reunited with D'Antoni. Let Houston get Gasol and send Jeremy to LA, both teams will be much better.


I keep hearing this idea, but while it's great for Lin, why would either the Rockets or the Lakers do this? :lol:
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Re: Jeremy Lin has been turned into Derek Fisher 

Post#137 » by kakaman » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:21 pm

Ginger Bean wrote:
kakaman wrote:Honestly the Rockets are misusing Lin. He needs to be reunited with D'Antoni. Let Houston get Gasol and send Jeremy to LA, both teams will be much better.


I keep hearing this idea, but while it's great for Lin, why would either the Rockets or the Lakers do this? :lol:


Gasol is obviously the odd man out in LA and he would be even more useless in the P and R system D'Antoni runs. He was the key piece the Rockets wanted before the CP3 trade got vetoed.

LA's weakness is the bench, you get Jeremy to run the system with the second team, and Lakers' bench immediately gets better in the high usage PG system.

It would seriously be a win win for both franchises.
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Re: Jeremy Lin has been turned into Derek Fisher 

Post#138 » by Durant Durant » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:26 pm

Ginger Bean wrote:The coaches seem determined to misuse him. Yeah, his shot is missing, and that's on Lin, but he's a rhythm player and will never find his shot as a spot-up shooter.


Excellent analysis.

Maybe they should move Harden back as super 6th man?

Gasol for Lin + PF sounds decent.
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Re: Jeremy Lin has been turned into Derek Fisher 

Post#139 » by Krodis » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:29 pm

Even if sharing the ball with Harden was the cause of Lin's woes, why would the Rockets lessen Harden's role to compensate for Lin? It's on Lin to figure out how to play with Harden.
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Re: Jeremy Lin has been turned into Derek Fisher 

Post#140 » by Tim Horton » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:36 pm

Krodis wrote:Even if sharing the ball with Harden was the cause of Lin's woes, why would the Rockets lessen Harden's role to compensate for Lin? It's on Lin to figure out how to play with Harden.


sharing the ball is not the problem from what some of the legit analyses in this thread says, but keywords such as usage, spot-up shooting and hero-ball. Usage is really low for Lin stats confirm that, spot-up shooting is not is forte we all know that, and too much hero ball by Harden after the first two games is hurting the team so bad coaching.
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