Jeremy Lin has been turned into Derek Fisher

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Re: Jeremy Lin has been turned into Derek Fisher 

Post#166 » by Major Tom » Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:37 am

Has little confidence now with his shot.
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Re: Jeremy Lin has been turned into Derek Fisher 

Post#167 » by 13th Man » Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:39 am

Lin had a very poor game tonight I believe that his confidence is shot. He went 0-3 or 0-4 early on with the 3's then just stopped shooting FGs all together after that, passing up open looks. Harden was ballin, played very well, good passing, not as many ISOs. Solid games by Asik, Parsons, Morris and TONEY DOUGLAS!
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Re: Jeremy Lin has been turned into Derek Fisher 

Post#168 » by M4P » Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:51 am

A couple of misconceptions here. The players on the Rockets have a lot more freedom on offense than most of you think. Someone on the Rockets' board broke it down better, but basically the players are actively deciding to defer to Harden because of the freedom that they have on offense. Lin simply isn't attacking the basket as much because he chooses not to, which is silly because that's when he's at his best. This is why (if you actually watch the games) you're seeing our PFs (PATTERSON@@!!@) jack up 3s, Delfino with questionable shot selection, and Harden isoing every. damn. time. in the fourth.
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Re: Jeremy Lin has been turned into Derek Fisher 

Post#169 » by madmaxmedia » Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:45 am

I was wondering about people using usage rate as some sort of absolute proof of his role in the offensive scheme. A low usage rate could indicate that other players have priority in the offensive sets/plays, it could also indicate that a player just isn't being very assertive when he is in. Or a mixture of both.

M4P wrote:A couple of misconceptions here. The players on the Rockets have a lot more freedom on offense than most of you think. Someone on the Rockets' board broke it down better, but basically the players are actively deciding to defer to Harden because of the freedom that they have on offense. Lin simply isn't attacking the basket as much because he chooses not to, which is silly because that's when he's at his best. This is why (if you actually watch the games) you're seeing our PFs (PATTERSON@@!!@) jack up 3s, Delfino with questionable shot selection, and Harden isoing every. damn. time. in the fourth.
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Re: Jeremy Lin has been turned into Derek Fisher 

Post#170 » by bigbreakfast » Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:34 am

diablerouge wrote:
13th Man wrote:
diablerouge wrote:lin is not good enough for a system to revolve around him. he's always been a very poor shooter since his college days, last year's spike was an aberration (and he was still below league average from 3 at 32%). it's up to lin to adjust to harden since he's the lesser player by a considerable margin, not the other way around.


Is it unreasonable to suggest that Lin plays his natural position which is PG? You said it yourself that Lin is not a good shooter so by forcing him into the role of shooting guard, this would minimize his effectiveness would it not? How would you suggest that he adjusts to Harden then? By becoming a better SG? I'm sorry but I'm just trying to figure out your logic here.

except that lin is not a natural PG, he was a flat out SG in college and a scoring PG in the pros. lin wasn't a floor general last year in NY, he was basically given a license to attack the hoop on every play and that's what made him successful. he can't do that as much in houston since harden is better than him at attacking the rim.

so yes, he has to adjust and become a better shooter and learn to score without dominating the ball. he just doesn't have the talent for a team to let him attack at all times from the PG spot like westbrook and rose. it can be learned, jason kidd became a 40% shooter from 3.


although lin played the role of a scoring guard in college and last year due to necessity, I think he has great timing and vision and willingness to pass the ball, so I absolutely think he has the "it" to be a natural PG, although he doesn't have the handles of an nba PG yet... but I agree he needs to learn to be successful off the ball too, esp catch and shoot.
Lin is like that ex-girlfriend to bitter Knicks fans. They swear she's no good and they're better off without her, but they can't stop talking about her every opportunity they get.
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Re: Jeremy Lin has been turned into Derek Fisher 

Post#171 » by rz04 » Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:45 am

Here's my thoughts on Lin for the 1st 8 games of the season.

1)Harden now does most of the playmaking/ball handling, and he should, so the other players have to spread out to give Harden room to drive to the lane and make plays. The problem is Lin is not a great 3pt shooter to take advantage of that. I expect him to gain more confidence on his shots with more work.

2) Lin is best at attacking the basket and pick and rolls, but the Rockets currently lack a 3pt shooter outside of Harden that teams are afraid to leave open and a big who can finish inside. Neither Asik or Patterson is particularly good at finishing inside, and Asik can't catch the ball at all. The other teams have really caught on to this after the first 2 games and made it much harder for the ball handler to attack the basket.

During the 3 game loosing streak the other teams have really taken advantage of this and both Lin and Harden's production came down drastically after the first 2 games. Harden being a much better player have adjusted to it over the past 2 games, Lin on the other hand have not.

Things are looking up tho, Douglas, Morris, and Delfino have started hitting their 3's, Terrance Jones and Motejunas gets up to speed defensively will provide a decent big to run the pick and roll. And Lin is still young enough where he could still improve his 3pt shooting by putting in hard work.
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Re: Jeremy Lin has been turned into Derek Fisher 

Post#172 » by rockmanslim » Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:21 am

bigbreakfast wrote:although lin played the role of a scoring guard in college and last year due to necessity, I think he has great timing and vision and willingness to pass the ball, so I absolutely think he has the "it" to be a natural PG, although he doesn't have the handles of an nba PG yet... but I agree he needs to learn to be successful off the ball too, esp catch and shoot.


Tough row to hoe: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1211699
click

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Re: Jeremy Lin has been turned into Derek Fisher 

Post#173 » by CU_NY09 » Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:25 am

rz04 wrote:Here's my thoughts on Lin for the 1st 8 games of the season.

1)Harden now does most of the playmaking/ball handling, and he should, so the other players have to spread out to give Harden room to drive to the lane and make plays. The problem is Lin is not a great 3pt shooter to take advantage of that. I expect him to gain more confidence on his shots with more work.

2) Lin is best at attacking the basket and pick and rolls, but the Rockets currently lack a 3pt shooter outside of Harden that teams are afraid to leave open and a big who can finish inside. Neither Asik or Patterson is particularly good at finishing inside, and Asik can't catch the ball at all. The other teams have really caught on to this after the first 2 games and made it much harder for the ball handler to attack the basket.

During the 3 game loosing streak the other teams have really taken advantage of this and both Lin and Harden's production came down drastically after the first 2 games. Harden being a much better player have adjusted to it over the past 2 games, Lin on the other hand have not.

Things are looking up tho, Douglas, Morris, and Delfino have started hitting their 3's, Terrance Jones and Motejunas gets up to speed defensively will provide a decent big to run the pick and roll. And Lin is still young enough where he could still improve his 3pt shooting by putting in hard work.


Harden has "adjusted", because the Rockets set plays for him and make him the focal point of the offense. When you're the focal point of the offense, the coaching staff is going to adjust and do whatever it takes to make sure you're scoring/being effective. When your'e the #1 option/scorer/playmaker/ball handler, you're bound to score and get assists. I'm not taking anything away from Harden, clearly he is the best player on the team but to say that he's adjusted while Lin hasn't, is a little misleading. As the focal point, the coaching staff is going to do whatever it takes to put you in a position to succeed. Also, i'm not sure why people keep saying that Harden is a good 3pt shooter; this season he's been bad. Harden's 3p% is 26% and Lin's is 31%. The Rockets are actually one of the worst 3pt shooting teams yet they attempt the most 3's.

You can be the #1 option/scorer/elite talent without having to be the primary ball handler/playmaker. LIn's usage rate is considerably lower than Harden's but he does a better job of creating for his teammates. Harden is not a superior playmaker to Lin.

A lot of the blame goes to Lin though. The coaching staff might encourage him to play a certain way to compliment Harden, force a square peg into a round hole kind of thing but ultimately it's up to him to make it work. Being in the position that he's in, it'll take him longer to adjust but he'll be fine.
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Re: Jeremy Lin has been turned into Derek Fisher 

Post#174 » by YouthMovement » Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:08 am

Lin is 24. I don't see him getting DRAMATICALLY better
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Re: Jeremy Lin has been turned into Derek Fisher 

Post#175 » by East_Coast » Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:10 pm

DLaren wrote:
dunleavyjr wrote:Maybe Lin's games with the Knicks last season was a fluke. Rockets need to stop the bleeding. Sometimes I feel like Harden is like a Carmelo Anthony, causing a distraction to Lin's game. I don't know...



Maybe?

Is the new narritive going to be to blame Lin's star teammate(s) for his ineffectiveness?

Its already out there. Harden is to blame for being so ball-dominant, McHale/Sampson are deliberately sabotaging Lin by not utilzing him the right way, Lin is deferring too much to Harden, etc., etc.

Every excuse under the sun, except that perhaps Linsanity was a fluke and he'll never be that effective again.
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Re: Jeremy Lin has been turned into Derek Fisher 

Post#176 » by Ginger Bean » Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:34 pm

East_Coast wrote:Its already out there. Harden is to blame for being so ball-dominant, McHale/Sampson are deliberately sabotaging Lin by not utilzing him the right way, Lin is deferring too much to Harden, etc., etc.


I haven't seen anyone "blame" Harden, who is clearly the better player.

People have questioned the coaching, and not just "Lin fans." It is a head-scratcher to camp Lin in the corner and expect him to be Ray Allen. You don't need to be a Lin homer to wonder about it.
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Re: Jeremy Lin has been turned into Derek Fisher 

Post#177 » by Krodis » Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:09 pm

But Lin isn't just camped in the corner. He has the ball, quite a bit. He's just gone totally passive and even when he does try to create something he tends to miss or turn the ball over.
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Re: Jeremy Lin has been turned into Derek Fisher 

Post#178 » by Hodges4Three » Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:06 pm

Krodis wrote:But Lin isn't just camped in the corner. He has the ball, quite a bit. He's just gone totally passive and even when he does try to create something he tends to miss or turn the ball over.


Usage Rate:

Raymond Felton - 25.8
Tony Parker - 26.8
Jrue Holiday 26.7
Toney Douglas - 19.7

Jeremy Lin - 18.6....tied with Rodrigue Beaubois and barely above John Lucas III.

Fact is he's not really being used on offense. Toney Douglas is being used more than Jeremy. Mario Chalmers has low usage but that makes sense because Lebron, Bosh and Wade are on his team. Rockets have Harden and who else. Asik? Parsons? Patterson? Lin should have a usage AT LEAST over 20 on that team.

Harden leads the league in usage for shooting guards, surpassing even Kobe, when he's not nearly as good.
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Re: Jeremy Lin has been turned into Derek Fisher 

Post#179 » by Krodis » Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:19 am

Usage rate only takes into account who ends a possession (shots, assists, turnovers). Lin has the ball plenty. He's just being terribly passive. Toney Douglas is higher because he's willing to chuck the ball around.
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Re: Jeremy Lin has been turned into Derek Fisher 

Post#180 » by sirdeadcat » Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:22 am

Krodis wrote:Usage rate only takes into account who ends a possession (shots, assists, turnovers). Lin has the ball plenty. He's just being terribly passive. Toney Douglas is higher because he's willing to chuck the ball around.


That's probably cause the coaching staff asked him to pass the ball to Harden so he can iso every play.

He probably decided to ignore the coach and play his game tonight, so that joke of a coach benched him in OT to play Tony Douglas.
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Re: Jeremy Lin has been turned into Derek Fisher 

Post#181 » by Krodis » Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:24 am

There are several minute stretches with Lin on the court where Harden barely touches the ball and doesn't take a shot. You're just making stuff up. And also, apparently paranoid.
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Re: Jeremy Lin has been turned into Derek Fisher 

Post#182 » by sirdeadcat » Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:30 am

Krodis wrote:There are several minute stretches with Lin on the court where Harden barely touches the ball and doesn't take a shot. You're just making stuff up. And also, apparently paranoid.


Huh?
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Re: Jeremy Lin has been turned into Derek Fisher 

Post#183 » by TheGoodDoctor » Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:52 am

I think he's returned his glass slipper and back to Golden State Jeremy Lin.
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Re: Jeremy Lin has been turned into Derek Fisher 

Post#184 » by EArl » Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:58 am

Fisher>Lin
in his prime. He might not have been a great player compared to lin, but those intangibles!!!
I am forever in his debt! :bowdown: :bowdown:
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Re: Jeremy Lin has been turned into Derek Fisher 

Post#185 » by SunsReadyToRoll » Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:06 am

Lin 11/11/6 tonight not too bad. ;)
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