The OFFICIAL Rookie impressions thread pt. II

[Cro_Ruption]

The Hornets-Blazer game didn't decide the ROY race.

No single game ever decides a race like ROY. It can make some believers however. After the first matchup of the two biggest threats for the ROY award, you only hear one player being talked about.

Not that it really matters though. While it's fun to follow the ROY race, it means nothing in the scheme of things regarding a players career.

well put. I could care less if lillard wins ROY, as long as he has a great career

[Jon1798]

The Hornets-Blazer game didn't decide the ROY race.

No single game ever decides a race like ROY. It can make some believers however. After the first matchup of the two biggest threats for the ROY award, you only hear one player being talked about.

Not that it really matters though. While it's fun to follow the ROY race, it means nothing in the scheme of things regarding a players career.

My comment above was only towards the lunacy of saying Davis lost ROY last night. Last night, a game that you could say Davis outplayed Lillard. Lillard made only 5 of 14 shots. It wasn't a great night for him before that last shot. He also gave up 23 points and 11 assists to Greivas Vasquez.

And for the season, Anthony Davis is still 12th in the entire league in PER. Though while playing only 10 games.

I would say Lillard is leading ROY simply because Davis has been out and is still working his way back from the bench. But certainly not based on last night, though he hit a very big shot over a 6'10 Ryan Anderson, and he deserves all the props in the world.

And I think we all agree ROY is meaningless and none of us will remember when both of these kids are playing in all-star games.

[RoyalWun]

"This My...
Mother...
Effing...
Ish!"

This very well can be his house if he plays like this plus improves.

I would be shocked if he swore. Kid is a good Christian boy, but if that's what it looks like, I assume it's "This is my mother effing house" Although maybe he says **** at the end?

Christian or not you get caught up now the moment especially hitting a game winner in an NBA game.

[DusterBuster]

My comment above was only towards the lunacy of saying Davis lost ROY last night. Last night, a game that you could say Davis outplayed Lillard. Lillard made only 5 of 14 shots. It wasn't a great night for him before that last shot. He also gave up 23 points and 11 assists to Greivas Vasquez.

Lillard's defense has been one of the weakest parts of his game, but weak defense out of a rookie PG is not exactly unprecedented. In fact, I always get a kick out of anyone expecting a ton of D out of a PG in general. The rules in the NBA handcuff perimeter players from playing any real defense, so who cares?

Lillard didn't have a great game last night, but even still, he came up when it mattered most and is still leading all rookies in pretty much every category. While I agree that it's silly to think one game made or broke the ROY race, I think Davis has a LOT of catching up to do to catch Lillard and it's very possibly that it's too far gone for him at this point.

And for the season, Anthony Davis is still 12th in the entire league in PER. Though while playing only 10 games.

10 games..... Too small of a sample size to the PER to be taken serious right now.

I would say Lillard is leading ROY simply because Davis has been out and is still working his way back from the bench. But certainly not based on last night, though he hit a very big shot over a 6'10 Ryan Anderson, and he deserves all the props in the world.

And I think we all agree ROY is meaningless and none of us will remember when both of these kids are playing in all-star games.

Again, I think it's going to be very difficult for Davis to make his way back into the ROY race at this point. Lillard has built up too much credit at this point. His production would have to absolutely fall off a cliff (or get injured) and Davis would simultaneously have to stay healthy for the rest of the season and get back to dominating in the starting lineup.

We also agree that ROY is a meaningless award in the long run. I predict that when we look back at this draft, Davis (assuming he isn't another chronically injured bigmen) will still be the best player to come out of the draft and no one will question if the Hornets made the wrong pick.

[lukeyrid13]

^ As a strong Christian and in leadership at my church I gotta say that most Christians swear at one point or another. I have heard literally every deacon and pastor at my church swear privately at least once before. Not as though they swear often but it does happen in certain moments.

I'm not condoning swearing as I have not sworn in almost a decade now but just because someone is Christian doesn't mean they won't swear

[Jon1798]

Duster,

I think we are generally on the same page, other than the general concept that Lillard has done something above and beyond what Davis has on the court.

Davis Per 36:

18.4 Points
9.4 rebounds
2.65 blocks
50.5% FG
82.4% FT

Lillard Per 36:

17.8 Points
6 assists
42.3% FG
36.8% 3PT
84.4% FT

I think the limited games, and lack of nationally televised games might have some a little jaded thus far. But all Davis has to do is play in order to be in the ROY discussion. I'm not sure where this idea of some great deficit and complete domination has come from.

[TheKingOfVa360]

From Rotoworld columnist Matt Stroup

Quick anecdote: Over the summer, I was watching Bradley Beal in a preseason game. On one possession, I caught a glimpse of his explosiveness going to the rim, and thought to myself, “That guy is gonna be good.”

I’ve never told that story to anyone before, probably because it’s not that interesting. But I bring it up because that glimpse of potential has turned into a full-blown Beal bonanza even faster than I would have expected. With John Wall (knee) still uncertain (and headed for a doctor’s visit on Friday), and A.J. Price out with a broken hand, the 19-year-old Beal (whose name rhymes with “real” and “deal”) has posted 17.5 ppg, 5.0 rpg, 4.8 apg, 1.8 spg, 0.5 bpg and 1.8 treys in his last four games.

Granted, he’s still not shooting wonderfully (41.1 percent during this four-game streak), and the normal rookie caveats regarding inconsistency still apply, but at this point I’d be pretty annoyingly excited if I drafted Beal or added him off waivers in a fantasy league. Things will get more crowded whenever Wall does return, but the (always) rebuilding Wizards would have to be insane to limit the minutes of the dynamic No. 3 overall pick.

[Shem]

Duster,

I think we are generally on the same page, other than the general concept that Lillard has done something above and beyond what Davis has on the court.

Davis Per 36:

18.4 Points
9.4 rebounds
2.65 blocks
50.5% FG
82.4% FT

Lillard Per 36:

17.8 Points
6 assists
42.3% FG
36.8% 3PT
84.4% FT

I think the limited games, and lack of nationally televised games might have some a little jaded thus far. But all Davis has to do is play in order to be in the ROY discussion. I'm not sure where this idea of some great deficit and complete domination has come from.

The people who vote for Rookie of the Year aren't going to look at the Per-36 stats. Because if they did, I'm sure someone can do that with Drummond's numbers as well and make an argument for him as well.

The point is they're going to look at the stats as they are. Then they're going to remember things like Lillard dropping 29 points on Tony Parker on National TV and they're going to remember the game winning shot from last night. They're also going to remember how Damian Lillard is the 2nd player in NBA history to put up at least 20 points and 7 assists on his first 3 NBA games; the other Oscar Robertson.

And until not only does Davis put up some serious numbers and does things that grab the voters attention and does things that leave a deep impression on a national level, I doubt he'll top Lillard for Rookie of the Year.

Just remember that you're making these arguments because you have high hopes for Davis to win the Rookie of the Year. But what about the voters who won't be looking at it like you are? And no matter how you try to spin it, they're not reading this thread and they're going to see how things are in the real totals. And to be honest, a lot of people have already made up their mind who the Rookie of the Year is right now. So, again Davis is going to have to do some things that get people talking; rare things.

[RoyalWun]

I hope NOH fans aren't becoming salty about Lillard looking like the leader in RoY discussions.

Rookie of the Year doesn't always mean they're going to be the best player out of that draft class.

[lukeyrid13]

^ Totally agree. Lillard has been better so far but we(Blazers) would trade him for Davis so fast. Plus Davis is one of thsoe guys that his stats will never tell the story of how he controls the game

[Shem]

Lillard's game winner from the point-of-view of being in the Rose Garden crowd!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI7d9BLDnHQ[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IOg1i83bNU[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUgxBtBgDmM[/youtube]

[BrooklynBulls]

With Lillard at 19/6/3 on a way better team, it'll take a lot for Davis to catch up. But he can totally catch up and overtake Lillard. He just needs to get back to starting and start playing 35+. His talent would take care of the rest.

[sir G Wallace]

With Lillard at 19/6/3 on a way better team, it'll take a lot for Davis to catch up. But he can totally catch up and overtake Lillard. He just needs to get back to starting and start playing 35+. His talent would take care of the rest.

I think Davis still has a good chance. Season is only 1/4th finished. He just needs to string together a few productive games and he is right back in there. Plus lets not forget, Davis is probably the best player on their team right now with Ryan Anderson being pretty close on offense. Gordon hasnt even played so that explains their aweful record with Davis missing time as well

[Shem]

All of the replays show Blazer broadcasters: Mike Barrett and Mike Rice's call of the game. Here's the point-of-view from the Hornets broadcasters:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQU87kiRBvo[/youtube]

[rockmanslim]

"This My...
Mother...
Effing...
Ish!"

I would be shocked if he swore. Kid is a good Christian boy, but if that's what it looks like, I assume it's "This is my mother effing house" Although maybe he says **** at the end?

He's from Oakland though.

[Blkbrd671]

As good as drummonds look, lillard is a beast . and clear leader for ROY. When Davis body develops and with the return of E. Gordon, we should see a lot better numbers from him

[DusterBuster]

I was going to reply to what Jon1798 said, but Shem's post here......

The people who vote for Rookie of the Year aren't going to look at the Per-36 stats. Because if they did, I'm sure someone can do that with Drummond's numbers as well and make an argument for him as well.

The point is they're going to look at the stats as they are. Then they're going to remember things like Lillard dropping 29 points on Tony Parker on National TV and they're going to remember the game winning shot from last night. They're also going to remember how Damian Lillard is the 2nd player in NBA history to put up at least 20 points and 7 assists on his first 3 NBA games; the other Oscar Robertson.

And until not only does Davis put up some serious numbers and does things that grab the voters attention and does things that leave a deep impression on a national level, I doubt he'll top Lillard for Rookie of the Year.

Just remember that you're making these arguments because you have high hopes for Davis to win the Rookie of the Year. But what about the voters who won't be looking at it like you are? And no matter how you try to spin it, they're not reading this thread and they're going to see how things are in the real totals. And to be honest, a lot of people have already made up their mind who the Rookie of the Year is right now. So, again Davis is going to have to do some things that get people talking; rare things.

Basically sums it all up.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

Just to point out the obvious hypocrisy...

Both of you guys want Lillard to win ROY just as much as Jon wants Davis to win.

[Johnny Firpo]

Lillard is amazing, but his percentages are actually plummeting pretty badly at the moment, and as some said, 3/4 of the season is still left, so yeah, i agree with the notion that Davis can still definitely catch up.

[Bskey]

Not that I'm saying there aren't Blazers fans like this, but outside of this forum most of the "Give Lillard ROY already" sort of talk is coming from non blazer related fans and media. I've seen quite a few Blazers fans be cautious toward proclaiming anything.

Quite honestly, that's a bad sign for Davis (if he cares about ROY that is). A lot of people have made up their minds already, and I think the point some in this thread are trying to make is that Davis needs to put in a lot of work to get the attention back on him. He should, he's the number 1 pick and plays great so far. But Lillard has stolen the show as far as outside fans and media goes.

Even if they go by stats, Lillard and Davis play completely different positions and roles, so can't just be looked at head to head stat wise. Voters are going to go by perception, stats and hype combined. For this reason Lillard is the clear front runner right now. Davis has a LOT of time to change things though.

Lillard is amazing, but his percentages are actually plummeting pretty badly at the moment, and as some said, 3/4 of the season is still left, so yeah, i agree with the notion that Davis can still definitely catch up.

He's been less efficient lately, but still has a .548% TS with a eFG% of .499 and his turnovers have improved. Compare his efficiency to some other high usage starting (and star) PGs and he's still pretty efficient overall compared with guys like Westbrook, Holiday, Williams and Rondo in efficiency categories. Not to say he's better than all of those guys, but if we're gonna talk about his efficiency he needs to be compared to other guys in his role, and not judged by his FG% alone vs a bigman.

The two big time point guards that I can think of atm (night shift, zzz) that are clearly more efficient are Tony Parker and Chris Paul, which is pretty normal for them.

So Lillard is doing just fine in overall efficiency, but you've observed his FG% dropping which is correct. He's had some off shooting nights but was still able to be effective.