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r0cd0gg wrote:nobody else is even top 20 in both

I see Splitter on both lists...

Drummond doesn't look 297 at all. He actually looks less than the 279 or whatever he was at. He looks way more active and energetic than he was last year.

I missed the Hornets game tonight, but Davis was 5-7 for 11 points, 6 rebounds, 3 blocks and one steal in 15 minutes. He had no turnovers and no fouls, I guess it was because Ryan Anderson was 7-14 from downtown that they kept him out

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB0pPYrpKfw[/youtube]
At about 2:50 in this video he says he's at 270 after losing 22 pounds. That would have put him in the 290s at UConn. He weighed 279 (7.5% body fat) at the predraft camp, so who knows, maybe he put a lot of that weight back on. Either way, dude is unreal.

And it's pretty funny to see how pissed he gets when people bring up his motor and all that in the predraft interviews. #redflags #characterissues

Maybe Drummond has been doing different core excercises which increased his weight but made him look more well shaped as well

Beal vs Lillard... turned out to be a stinker. 2-17 shooting between the 2 of them so far.

GhostsOfGil wrote:Beal vs Lillard... turned out to be a stinker. 2-17 shooting between the 2 of them so far.

Was hoping for better..

Lillard turned it on in the 4th, Beal didn't really get the chance because Crawford came in hot.

NO-KG-AI wrote:Drummond doesn't look 297 at all. He actually looks less than the 279 or whatever he was at. He looks way more active and energetic than he was last year.

I missed the Hornets game tonight, but Davis was 5-7 for 11 points, 6 rebounds, 3 blocks and one steal in 15 minutes. He had no turnovers and no fouls, I guess it was because Ryan Anderson was 7-14 from downtown that they kept him out

Davis stepped on a ref's foot and sprained his ankle in the 2nd quarter. Sucks because he's been playing great lately and was off to a great start vs. Sacto. Its the same ankle that kept him out of games earlier this year. He says its not serious and he shouldn't miss any games, though.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apZuFSyE45o/[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feVVMANw8S8[/youtube]

Bskey wrote:

Blkbrd671 wrote:idk, but when you have Tyson Chandler at the top of any offensive statistical ratings list, imo doesn't really hold a lot of weight

It certainly needs to be put into context. Drummond is NOT a top 10 offensive player, not even close.

That however is a good indication that he's succeeding where he needs to atm.

The thing is I think you guys are just defining great offensive players in terms of their individual scoring talent, like its streetball. This rating system is based on what impact players have on the team offense as a whole, which is actually a more accurate way to rank players, imo.

For instance, I think they give credit to players who get offensive rebounds that lead to pts for their team, even if they techincally didn't score or make the assist. But that offensive rebound was crucial to getting those pts. So they rightfully give some credit to that player too. And thats likely how players like Drummond and Chandler are rated as top offensive players because of their offensive rebounds, as well as all their dunks.

If we're talking about ranking the top 10 offensive players that would win a 1 on 1 tournament, then no Drummond or Chandler would not be on that list. But if we're talking about biggest impact players to a TEAM offense, which is really how offensive players should be judged, then I think this rating system is valid.

Take Chandler off the Knicks, taking away the bulk of their offensive rebs, and see how many pts NY scores when they only get 1 shot per posession. So technically he is a top offensive player if he's having that much impact on a teams offense. He may never win a 1 on 1 tournament like Carmelo, but NBA is a team game.

"Offensive Rating" is a statistic used in basketball to measure an individual player's efficiency at producing points for the offense. It was created by author and statistician Dean Oliver.

For players, the formula is: Offensive Rating = (Points Produced / Individual Possessions) x 100

Points can be produced through field goals, free throws, assists, and offensive rebounds. Individual possessions are the sum of a player's scoring possessions (field goals, free throws, plus partial credit for assists), missed field goals and free throws that the defense rebounds, and turnovers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offensive_rating

That just means those players are efficient, it does not say whether or not they are impact players on offense.

Wow, I saw Drummond's highlights; I can't believe he has that body and is that elite in athleticism: strength, power, leaping, agility..

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myGXZahxXOQ[/youtube]

Just for kicks:

Anthony Davis(19 years old)
20th in the league in PER
4th amongst PF's in PER
Per 36 minutes:
16.2 PPG
9.8 rebounds
2.4 blocks
1.4 steals
1.7 TO's
51.9% FG

Damian Lillard(22 years old)
90th in the league in PER
22nd amongst PG's in PER
Per 36 minutes:
17.1 PPG
6.2 assists
.9 steals
2.8 TO's
42% FG

Andre Drummond(19 years old)
11th in the league in PER
2nd amongst C's in PER
Per 36 minutes:
13.6 PPG
13.3 rebounds
2.9 blocks
1.6 steals
1.5 TO's
60.7% FG


Discuss......

Jon1798 wrote:Just for kicks:

Anthony Davis(19 years old)
20th in the league in PER
4th amongst PF's in PER
Per 36 minutes:
16.2 PPG
9.8 rebounds
2.4 blocks
1.4 steals
1.7 TO's
51.9% FG

Damian Lillard(22 years old)
90th in the league in PER
22nd amongst PG's in PER
Per 36 minutes:
17.1 PPG
6.2 assists
.9 steals
2.8 TO's
42% FG

Andre Drummond(19 years old)
11th in the league in PER
2nd amongst C's in PER
Per 36 minutes:
13.6 PPG
13.3 rebounds
2.9 blocks
1.6 steals
1.5 TO's
60.7% FG


Discuss......

My first thought is...why would you use Per 36? And then I thought, oh, because it makes your guy look better.

Jon1798 wrote:Just for kicks:

Anthony Davis(19 years old)
20th in the league in PER
4th amongst PF's in PER
Per 36 minutes:
16.2 PPG
9.8 rebounds
2.4 blocks
1.4 steals
1.7 TO's
51.9% FG

Damian Lillard(22 years old)
90th in the league in PER
22nd amongst PG's in PER
Per 36 minutes:
17.1 PPG
6.2 assists
.9 steals
2.8 TO's
42% FG

Andre Drummond(19 years old)
11th in the league in PER
2nd amongst C's in PER
Per 36 minutes:
13.6 PPG
13.3 rebounds
2.9 blocks
1.6 steals
1.5 TO's
60.7% FG


Discuss......

After reading this thread, those stats really reaffirm the prospect that Davis was/is. A big, athletic freak like Drummond performs 100% over expectations, but Davis playing ten minutes more and dealing with petty, unforseable injuries puts up similar production over 36.

Jon1798 wrote:Just for kicks:

Anthony Davis(19 years old)
20th in the league in PER
4th amongst PF's in PER
Per 36 minutes:
16.2 PPG
9.8 rebounds
2.4 blocks
1.4 steals
1.7 TO's
51.9% FG

Damian Lillard(22 years old)
90th in the league in PER
22nd amongst PG's in PER
Per 36 minutes:
17.1 PPG
6.2 assists
.9 steals
2.8 TO's
42% FG

Andre Drummond(19 years old)
11th in the league in PER
2nd amongst C's in PER
Per 36 minutes:
13.6 PPG
13.3 rebounds
2.9 blocks
1.6 steals
1.5 TO's
60.7% FG


Discuss......

Shouldn't compare guard metrics to big man metrics. PER is not an end all be all metric. The league is short on quality big men and the abundant in quality PGs. Also, dont underestimate the value of assists, Damian get's 6.6/game that's at the very least 13.2 additional points he creates for his team when on the court. Assuming they are 2pt shots. And can be argued that he is responsible for 31.5 of the teams pts every game (18.3+13.2). Which with the team averaging 97pts/game is atleast about 32.5% of the total points. That's not counting the plays PG's "assisted" on where the receiving player is immediately fouled and goes to the line (those points don't give assists to the PG) or in case of an "And 1".

Look, I would hope that anyone that can get all the way to a basketball message board would understand why per 36 is used. Hopefully we can discuss the comparisons this time.

To above, absolutely per is not the end all metrix. I just find it to be the best attempt at assigning a number and ranking to something that can never completely be compared. As is any stat, it is what it is and nothing more.

I think the main thing this shows is that these three are fantastic players. I think Davis suffers from much higher expectations than anyone else. I find some of the things Drummond is doing is almost unprecedented. I am also a little surprised at Lillard's assist numbers. For the time he's on the court, with that supporting cast, he should not have those sort of assist numbers. He's a better player than that and I think he'll prove it.

Drummond with 11/11/2 blocks in 24min. This is no longer surprising.