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Bskey wrote:I think people need to clarify whether they are talking about shooting or FG%.

We are talking about shooting ability, which takes into account alot more than FG%.

Raymond Felton is a better pure shooter than Lillard? LMFAO

jmcfaul13 wrote:

Bskey wrote:I think people need to clarify whether they are talking about shooting or FG%.

We are talking about shooting ability, which takes into account alot more than FG%.

Yes, I know. That's why I'm asking. There were some guys listed that are not better shooters than Lillard, which leaves me to assume they must be going by FG% alone. That's why I said people need to clarify.

ComboGuardCity wrote:Lillard isn't even a top 5 shooter at the PG position.

1. Nash
2. Curry
3. Conley
4. Knight
5. Foye
6. Felton
7. Irving
8. Calderon
9. Kidd

Excluding the GOAT PG Shooter of all time Nash who has been out from injury, all the other guys have been better percentage jump shooters than Lillard this year. Can't even use the sample size argument because it applies Lillard as well.

You must be r*tarded if you think Conley, Knight, Foye, Felton and Kidd are better shooters...and your only argument is percentage, stop it.
And we aren't talking about 3's only, but mid-range as well. Conley, Foye, Felton and Kidd can't shoot from 16-23 feet, they can't create shot for himself and Foye isn't even PG lol.

If all your 12138 posts are stupid like that one, I feel sorry for people who read this.

T-Will20 wrote:

ComboGuardCity wrote:Lillard isn't even a top 5 shooter at the PG position.

1. Nash
2. Curry
3. Conley
4. Knight
5. Foye
6. Felton
7. Irving
8. Calderon
9. Kidd

Excluding the GOAT PG Shooter of all time Nash who has been out from injury, all the other guys have been better percentage jump shooters than Lillard this year. Can't even use the sample size argument because it applies Lillard as well.

You must be r*tarded if you think Conley, Knight, Foye, Felton and Kidd are better shooters...and your only argument is percentage, stop it.
And we aren't talking about 3's only, but mid-range as well. Conley, Foye, Felton and Kidd can't shoot from 16-23 feet, they can't create shot for himself and Foye isn't even PG lol.

If all your 12138 posts are stupid like that one, I feel sorry for people who read this.

Shooting has nothing to do with creating your own shot. I'm talking about pure shooters here. All those players that I listed shoot a better weighted percentage of combined 3pt% and long 2 (16-23ft) this season.

BTW Is this the same dude from Downey, CA

If you're talking about pure shooting, you need to talk quality of shots taken. Jason Kidd is not taking the shots Damian Lillard takes, and that's because if he did, he'd shoot 4% from the field.

BrooklynBulls wrote:If you're talking about pure shooting, you need to talk quality of shots taken. Jason Kidd is not taking the shots Damien Lillard takes, and that's because if he did, he'd shoot 4% from the field.

The whole reason I included Kidd was to make a point in regards to sample size. Kidd will definitely not keep up the current pace he's on and we don't know if lillard as well. We're only a quarter of a way through one season and there are people saying he's a top 3 shooting PG. Personally, I seriously doubt he maintains this clip he's on in making contested long range shots.

ComboGuardCity wrote:

BrooklynBulls wrote:If you're talking about pure shooting, you need to talk quality of shots taken. Jason Kidd is not taking the shots Damien Lillard takes, and that's because if he did, he'd shoot 4% from the field.

The whole reason I included Kidd was to make a point in regards to sample size. Kidd will definitely not keep up the current pace he's on and we don't know if lillard as well. We're only a quarter of a way through one season and there are people saying he's a top 3 shooting PG. Personally, I seriously doubt he maintains this clip he's on in making contested long range shots.

The sample size between Kidd's and Lillard's jumpshot is absolutely vast. Kidd's attempted all of 73 threes and literally ZERO 2 point jump shots.

Lillard has attempted 134 threes, and over 50 long 2 pointers. A sample of 73 versus 180+. Lillard has not proven he's *this* good a shooter yet, but it's less because of sample size, and more because defenses have not yet adjusted.

If you had watched the Blazers, you could tell that defenses have adjusted and are still adjusting.

Last night, I think Pop said something like "keep the ball out of Lillard's hand". That is what defenses have been trying to do since about the Blazers 5th game. It's not every night that Lillard gets hot and torches a top team for 29 points, but he has been producing at his efficiency against defenses focused on him.



Also, what is lost in a lot of the previous discussion, is that you are comparing a rookie to long time veterans. Don't most players come in and shoot below average their first year, and improve with time? I mean, comparing what Kidd is doing now to what Lillard is doing is apples and oranges. Comparing Steve Nash at the prime of his career to a rookie Lillard is apples and orange. For a rookie, what Lillard is doing is pretty amazing. If he is at all like other players, his shooting %'s will generally come up with time and he can likely hang his hat on being a great shooter from the PG position.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKWQet0iAAQ[/youtube]

The author of that video forgot to put in this play:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtQbRbNKSZw[/youtube]

DeBlazerRiddem wrote:If you had watched the Blazers, you could tell that defenses have adjusted and are still adjusting.

Last night, I think Pop said something like "keep the ball out of Lillard's hand". That is what defenses have been trying to do since about the Blazers 5th game. It's not every night that Lillard gets hot and torches a top team for 29 points, but he has been producing at his efficiency against defenses focused on him.



Also, what is lost in a lot of the previous discussion, is that you are comparing a rookie to long time veterans. Don't most players come in and shoot below average their first year, and improve with time? I mean, comparing what Kidd is doing now to what Lillard is doing is apples and oranges. Comparing Steve Nash at the prime of his career to a rookie Lillard is apples and orange. For a rookie, what Lillard is doing is pretty amazing. If he is at all like other players, his shooting %'s will generally come up with time and he can likely hang his hat on being a great shooter from the PG position.

Lillard is not a normal rookie. He's an old rookie for today's NBA, and he's a really good one too. When I watched him play, he doesn't take the efficiency-killing shots most rookie learn to eliminate by their 2nd years. And most players simply need a year to IMPROVE their shots, Lillard doesn't.

But defenses have NOT fully adjusted yet. They continue to focus more on Aldridge, and from what I've seen, even spend a lot more energy than necessary on Wes Matthews. The book is out on how to defend those guys. It's still being written on Lillard, and like everybody, he'll hit a rough patch, adjust, then be as good as ever while facing increased pressure and freeing up other players.

BrooklynBulls wrote:

DeBlazerRiddem wrote:If you had watched the Blazers, you could tell that defenses have adjusted and are still adjusting.

Last night, I think Pop said something like "keep the ball out of Lillard's hand". That is what defenses have been trying to do since about the Blazers 5th game. It's not every night that Lillard gets hot and torches a top team for 29 points, but he has been producing at his efficiency against defenses focused on him.



Also, what is lost in a lot of the previous discussion, is that you are comparing a rookie to long time veterans. Don't most players come in and shoot below average their first year, and improve with time? I mean, comparing what Kidd is doing now to what Lillard is doing is apples and oranges. Comparing Steve Nash at the prime of his career to a rookie Lillard is apples and orange. For a rookie, what Lillard is doing is pretty amazing. If he is at all like other players, his shooting %'s will generally come up with time and he can likely hang his hat on being a great shooter from the PG position.

Lillard is not a normal rookie. He's an old rookie for today's NBA, and he's a really good one too. When I watched him play, he doesn't take the efficiency-killing shots most rookie learn to eliminate by their 2nd years. And most players simply need a year to IMPROVE their shots, Lillard doesn't.

But defenses have NOT fully adjusted yet. They continue to focus more on Aldridge, and from what I've seen, even spend a lot more energy than necessary on Wes Matthews. The book is out on how to defend those guys. It's still being written on Lillard, and like everybody, he'll hit a rough patch, adjust, then be as good as ever while facing increased pressure and freeing up other players.

First, I didn't say defenses were fully adjusted. I have said teams are adjusting and still adjusting to try and figure this Lillard kid out. They aren't simply waiting to see if his shooting %'s keep up, they are game planning how to bring them down and haven't got it figured out yet. So far Lillard has adjusted with them, and proven that he cannot be contained simply, the first step toward being a legit star in this league.

From what I have seen, the only way to take Lillard out of his game is to double and trap him to get the ball out of his hand - a defensive move which is very costly if the Blazers have anyone else that can handle and score. Outside of that, Lillard can get what he wants every time down the floor - you play him for the drive and he is happy to step back and hit a 3, you play him for the shot and he will go either left or right to get around you, you get tough with him and he keeps his poise and hits his free throws.

His biggest weakness is elite shot blockers, something he likely didn't see much of in college. This isn't really a game plan, but a coach with a shot blocker or two could employ a scheme to make the most of it. However this isn't really an adjustment, either you have and employ shot blockers or you do not.

Anyways, back to the point about efficiency... Nash is consistently used as the example of a great shooter, and he was a 4 year player as well. He didn't have quite the role his rookie year that Lillard does, but his efficiency got a lot better as he developed. Anyways, if you believe that Lillard doesn't have room to improve then no, he wouldn't be considered an elite shooter, but from where he is starting he is in good company if he does develop like other players do. Personally I still see room for statistical growth from the kid, and while I don't expect Curry-esque numbers, I still think he will be very good.


A couple other Blazer fans have mentioned it, but this does feel like deja vu from when Roy was a rook. People talked about how he was a four year player with little room for growth. Yet has anyone actually tried to argue he didn't grow in the NBA? There are a lot of preconceptions about 4 year players with polished games, but they don't always end up being true.

Everybody has room to improve. But when a shooter's already a very good shooter, very rarely do they then become significantly better and become all time greats. That's why you have these outliers like Ray Allen, Steve Nash, guys who were always good, who then transcended and became insane.

Roy is a guy who didn't really improve as a shooter, although he probably wasn't as good of one as Lillard, but instead improved in his decision-making, foul-drawing, defensive awareness, and court awareness. I never said Lillard wouldn't improve. I said Lillard probably wouldn't become a significantly more efficient shooter because he's already so good, as well as judicious about his shot selection. Frankly, at a TS of .548 already, there's not a ton of room TO improve, it's already quite good.

I have been really disappointed with Thomas Robinson. He is averaging less points than any other top-10 pick, and he has looked really bad in virtually every game. His team has no confidence in him, preferring to start a horrible back-up small forward over him at power forward with three starters out.

I expected him to contend for RoY, and average nearly a double-double. But he can't shoot (.410 FG%, which is piss-poor for any player and doubly so for a big), he gets blocked very often, and he doesn't really show signs of NBA quality skills in any area except defensive rebounding.

I think it is fair to say that he has been the most disappointing rookie this year. Right now, his stats match the career averages of a second-round pick, and if he intends to play in the league after his rookie contract is up he needs to play better.

CBB_Fan wrote:I have been really disappointed with Thomas Robinson. He is averaging less points than any other top-10 pick, and he has looked really bad in virtually every game. His team has no confidence in him, preferring to start a horrible back-up small forward over him at power forward with three starters out.

I expected him to contend for RoY, and average nearly a double-double. But he can't shoot (.410 FG%, which is piss-poor for any player and doubly so for a big), he gets blocked very often, and he doesn't really show signs of NBA quality skills in any area except defensive rebounding.

I think it is fair to say that he has been the most disappointing rookie this year. Right now, his stats match the career averages of a second-round pick, and if he intends to play in the league after his rookie contract is up he needs to play better.

Could have had Drummond....lol

Drummond would have busted in Sacramento. Him going to the Kings was my biggest fear for him.

Anyone watching the Lakers game? What is happening?

By the scoreboard it looks like the Lakers are hanging on to dear life against the Bullets

spudwebb wrote:Anyone watching the Lakers game? What is happening?

By the scoreboard it looks like the Lakers are hanging on to dear life against the Bullets

It's the Lakers what were you expecting?

Anyone tell me why Drummond doesn`t get more minutes.

Hero wrote:Anyone tell me why Drummond doesn`t get more minutes.

Because coach Frank is a **** head.