Race to the MVP pt. II

HurricaneKid · Post #301 » by **HurricaneKid** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:00 pm

Yeah LeBron isn't good on shooters. He cheats A LOT and loses his guy far too often. But there is no one in the league that can drive past him when he is properly motivated. I couldn't believe when Spo had him guarding JET in the Finals two years ago. Running through screens and sticking to his man is the opposite of what he does best defensively.

HurricaneKid · Post #302 » by **HurricaneKid** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:04 pm

Bravely Done wrote:Durant scored more efficiently in ISO sets against LeBron than either Marion, Artest, or Leonard. Check synergy for verification. Additionally, KD is averaging 30ppg on 50+% shooting and 60ts% against the Heat since LeBron went to Miami.

First off, outside of a few 4th qtrs LeBron wasn't guarding Durant. His offensive responsibilities were enormous and Battier, while not nearly long enough, is a reasonable defensive answer to KD. When he WAS guarding KD he had a far tougher time GETTING the ball and his effect on the game was clearly diminished.

MisterWestside · Post #303 » by **MisterWestside** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:04 pm

Bravely Done wrote:Durant scored more efficiently in ISO sets against LeBron than either Marion, Artest, or Leonard. Check synergy for verification.

This does nothing for your claim. Even if we take the synergy numbers as given (and they come with their own set of flaws), you named only three defenders who did better than LeBron in iso sets (also, I didn't refer to any Dallas defenders either, but I'll keep Marion in there for sake of argument). But this is what you stated:

Durant has no problem scoring on LBJ. Scored more easily against James than any defender he was matched up against last post season.

You need to verify this. Durant had his way with several other Lakers and Spurs defenders, which means that he didn't score more easily against LeBron than anyone else.

LBJ-ITALY · Post #304 » by **LBJ-ITALY** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:26 pm

HurricaneKid wrote:
Bravely Done wrote:Durant scored more efficiently in ISO sets against LeBron than either Marion, Artest, or Leonard. Check synergy for verification. Additionally, KD is averaging 30ppg on 50+% shooting and 60ts% against the Heat since LeBron went to Miami.

First off, outside of a few 4th qtrs LeBron wasn't guarding Durant. His offensive responsibilities were enormous and Battier, while not nearly long enough, is a reasonable defensive answer to KD. When he WAS guarding KD he had a far tougher time GETTING the ball and his effect on the game was clearly diminished.

This!

Bravely Done · Post #305 » by **Bravely Done** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:55 pm

MisterWestside wrote:This does nothing for your claim.

It confirms my claim. Whether or not you choose to accept it has no bearing on fact.

Even if we take the synergy numbers as given (and they come with their own set of flaws)

Unless you have a thorough critique and explanatoln for why synergy ISO statistics(iso specifically) are so flawed that they can't be relied upon to record something as simple as possessions scored against an individual defender, when iso'd, I have no reason to lend your concerns credence.

you named only three defenders who did better than LeBron in iso sets (also, I didn't refer to any Dallas defenders either, but I'll keep Marion in there for sake of argument). But this is what you stated:

Those three defender were Durant's primary matchup's in each respective series leading up to the finals. Marion/Mavs in the first round, Artest/Lakers in the semi's, and Leonard/Spurs in the conference finals.

You need to verify this. Durant had his way with several other Lakers and Spurs defenders, which means that he didn't score more easily against LeBron than anyone else.

I'm not sure I can verify it any further than I have. Durant's scoring peak was in the finals, against the Heat and LeBron James, where he posted 30ppg/55fg%/63ts%. Per synergy, and you can watch the possessions if you're a subscriber; Durant was most efficient ppp against LBJ and Miami.

Bravely Done · Post #306 » by **Bravely Done** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:01 pm

HurricaneKid wrote:
Bravely Done wrote:Durant scored more efficiently in ISO sets against LeBron than either Marion, Artest, or Leonard. Check synergy for verification. Additionally, KD is averaging 30ppg on 50+% shooting and 60ts% against the Heat since LeBron went to Miami.

First off, outside of a few 4th qtrs LeBron wasn't guarding Durant. His offensive responsibilities were enormous and Battier, while not nearly long enough, is a reasonable defensive answer to KD. When he WAS guarding KD he had a far tougher time GETTING the ball and his effect on the game was clearly diminished.

You can make stuff up all you like. Battier was moved to Durant in Miami and OKC's first matchup of last season because Durant was torching LeBron. In the finals, against LBJ and the Heat, he posted 30ppg/55fg%/63ts%, and since LeBron went to Miami he's averaging 30ppg on 50% shooting.

KD has had no problems putting numbers up against LeBron.

MisterWestside · Post #307 » by **MisterWestside** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:26 pm

Bravely Done wrote:Those three defender were Durant's primary matchup's in each respective series leading up to the finals. Marion/Mavs in the first round, Artest/Lakers in the semi's, and Leonard/Spurs in the conference finals.

Never mind the fact that LBJ wasn't even the primary defender on Durant during the Finals, did you even talk about primary defenders in the first place? Again, this is what you said:

Durant has no problem scoring on LBJ. Scored more easily against James than any defender he was matched up against last post season.

So stop changing your argument.

Unless you have a thorough critique and explanatoln for why synergy ISO statistics(iso specifically) are so flawed...<snip>

Except I actually took your synergy iso numbers as given anyway, so this is irrelevant.

Per synergy, and you can watch the possessions if you're a subscriber; Durant was most efficient ppp against LBJ and Miami.

Durant's ppp vs. the Mavs: 1.06
Lakers: 1.19
Spurs: 1.29
Heat: 1.17

Playoffs splits per B-R.com.

HurricaneKid · Post #308 » by **HurricaneKid** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:12 pm

Bravely Done wrote:I'm not sure I can verify it any further than I have. Durant's scoring peak was in the finals, against the Heat .

Well since this has been proven inaccurate

Bravely Done wrote:Durant's scoring peak was in the finals, against the Heat and LeBron James, where he posted 30ppg/55fg%/63ts%. Per synergy, and you can watch the possessions if you're a subscriber; Durant was most efficient ppp against LBJ and Miami.

I'd like to know how you ascertain that this was done against LeBron? Because LeBron was nowhere NEAR his primary defender.

I suspect its just your favorite flavor of haterade.

Bandwagon1 · Post #309 » by **Bandwagon1** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:45 pm

hey dickheads how about you start a damn player vs player thread or some ****?

Melo is balling gotta go with him!

Tron Carter · Post #310 » by **Tron Carter** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:26 pm

Bandwagon1 wrote:hey dickheads how about you start a damn player vs player thread or some ****?

Melo is balling gotta go with him!

They're ruining this thread.

Posting advanced stats not ever relevant to this season. That not a single voter for the MVP gives an actual f*ck about.

QPR · Post #311 » by **QPR** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:44 pm

HakeemKnicks wrote:They're ruining this thread.

Posting advanced stats not ever relevant to this season. That not a single voter for the MVP gives an actual f*ck about.

Yeah this thread is getting annoying.

I think, whether you want to use advanced stats or basic stats, it's Durant and then daylight so far. Throw in the fact it's supposedly "his turn", and I think it would take a fairly big drop off from OKC or an injury to stop him getting the award.

It's not even close at the moment. He's somehow upped his scoring efficiency even more, while noticeably improving other aspects of his game, for the team with the best record in the league (despite losing a would be All-Star).

TheGarden · Post #312 » by **TheGarden** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:51 am

GSP wrote: Kevin Durant is a much better defender than Carmelo Anthony. In fact KD has been better defensively than Lebron this year those extended minutes at PF arent doing him any favors or for the Heats team D.

you know Durant is surrounded by 4 superior defenders to himself than Carmelo is so it makes thing easier for him as a defender. Sefolosha defends the best wing on the other team most of the time while KD gets the lesser man but again my motive is not to knock KD but to say he's not an elite defender, neither is Carmelo but I think Carmelo is a better defender than Durant especially with him being able to guard bigs at times, I think KD would get abused by 4's and 5's

TheKingOfVa360 · Post #313 » by **TheKingOfVa360** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:46 am

Well looks like Melo might be number 1 in the MVP race at the end of this week

lolcat · Post #314 » by **lolcat** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:02 am

MisterWestside wrote:
Bravely Done wrote:Those three defender were Durant's primary matchup's in each respective series leading up to the finals. Marion/Mavs in the first round, Artest/Lakers in the semi's, and Leonard/Spurs in the conference finals.

Never mind the fact that LBJ wasn't even the primary defender on Durant during the Finals, did you even talk about primary defenders in the first place? Again, this is what you said:

Durant has no problem scoring on LBJ. Scored more easily against James than any defender he was matched up against last post season.

So stop changing your argument.

Unless you have a thorough critique and explanatoln for why synergy ISO statistics(iso specifically) are so flawed...<snip>

Except I actually took your synergy iso numbers as given anyway, so this is irrelevant.

Per synergy, and you can watch the possessions if you're a subscriber; Durant was most efficient ppp against LBJ and Miami.

Durant's ppp vs. the Mavs: 1.06
Lakers: 1.19
Spurs: 1.29
Heat: 1.17

Playoffs splits per B-R.com.

Cowardly Done getting destroyed as always

Hero · Post #315 » by **Hero** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:28 am

WOW. Melo is actually number 1 in the race now. I am surprised.

TheGarden · Post #316 » by **TheGarden** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:34 am

Advanced stats :lol:

Hero · Post #317 » by **Hero** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:41 am

Problem for LeBron and Melo is that they don't have someone doing the heavy lifting for them like Westbrook is. They have to do most of it themselves while OKC has westbrook playing out of his mind every night and getting little of the credit for his teams success.

Albert23 · Post #318 » by **Albert23** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:54 am

Hero wrote:Problem for LeBron and Melo is that they don't have someone doing the heavy lifting for them like Westbrook is. They have to do most of it themselves while OKC has westbrook playing out of his mind every night and getting little of the credit for his teams success.

That is not a problem at all to be honest. LeBron would prefer not to pass to someone who shoots 41% from the field; if he did, Norris Cole would get All-Star considerations. So the reason why Westbrook gets no credit is because he misses shots he should make, and he takes shots he shouldn't take. Meanwhile, KD is standing next to him.

Darain · Post #319 » by **Darain** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:19 am

I swear a player defense is only as good as a fan rates it

Albert23 · Post #320 » by **Albert23** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:55 am

25.5 / 8.6 / 6.8 / 54%FG

vs.

27.7 / 6.6 / 2.1 / 45%FG