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Why does bryant attempt so many shots in 1st half of games?

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Post#1 Why does bryant attempt so many shots in 1st
Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:57 am by va-mos

Bryant should follow the lead of great players in history and involve his teammates early, and only seek to take over when the going gets tough. His teammates don't have a chance of playing their game if he doesn't involve them in the 1st half. He's making the going tough for them, rather than the other way around. Game 7 vs Boston is a great example. If not for the open-minded Fisher (Kobe's only friend in LA) convincing Kobe at halftime to stop shooting the championship away, Boston would have won in a blowout. It seems to be a question of basketball IQ.
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Post#2 Re: Why does bryant attempt so many shots in
Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:00 am by maxpower88

lol

































no

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Post#3 Re: Why does bryant attempt so many shots in
Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:13 am by moocow007

I don't think it's a matter of IQ (he's a very smart guy and you don't help teams win as many championships as he has without having a great feel for the game). Rather (and I've mentioned this in a few other threads) I think the problem is that you need someone in some position of authority that he will listen to to keep his emotions and competitiveness in under control. Phil Jackson (a guy that Bryant basically had a love-hate respect for) was a master at it and the results are obvious. D'Antoni? Really the polar opposite in that respect.

Bryant is without doubt one of the top 3-5 offensive talents in the NBA. No one knows it better than he himself. Unbridled and freed of any real system or structure (right now under D'antoni's free flowing system) he's just basically going with what he does best unchallenged (D'Antoni has said himself on numerous occassions that he doesn't believe the head coach needs to deal with player personalities). I'm sure the frustration of how the Lakers have played recently is also contributing to him trying to "save the team by himself by going into God mode" mode.

Michael Jordan knew when to pull it in and when to go into god mode. He knew that he needed his teammates to win games but also knew, probably more than anyone else to ever play the game, when he needed to turn it on and do it himself. Bryant isn't Jordan in that regards.

Bottom line, I think Bryant needs someone THAT HE ACTUALLY RESPECTS AND WOULD LISTEN TO to tell him to take it easy there and get his teammates involved. Phil Jackson is one guy that could do that and that Bryant would listen to (Buss Jr apparently decided that it's more important for him to win the ego battle than to do what 99.44% of the world felt would have been the only choice). Not sure how many other guys qualify or that not only can tell him to ease it a bit but that Bryant would actually respect enough to listen to. He's obviously not going to get it from his current coach. He won't listen to Gasol obviously (lol). Dwight Howard doesn't seem like the type of guy that would bring something like that up. Nash is injured so don't know if Bryant would take advise from him (though Nash probably is ideally the most likely "calming influence" of the bunch). Anything coming out of MWP's mouth would seem contrite. No one else is in any remote position of anything to even open their mouths.
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Post#4 Re: Why does bryant attempt so many shots in
Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:32 am by va-mos

This year the Lakers are:
1-10 when Kobe scores 30 points or more.
8-3 when Kobe has 5 or more assists.
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Post#5 Re: Why does bryant attempt so many shots in
Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:43 am by moocow007

va-mos wrote:This year the Lakers are:
1-10 when Kobe scores 30 points or more.
8-3 when Kobe has 5 or more assists.


Very interesting stats. Yep. I think right now chaos is basically reigning and you just really don't have a cohesive team. There is no commanding presence on the bench (with D'Antoni). There's the friction that has obviously boiled over between Bryant and Gasol. There's Dwight Howard newly introduced onto a team that may or may not (likely the later) been the team he really wanted to go to. No system that works to the strengths of the players on the team. No leadership. No accountability (which starts with Bryant). No real sense of urgency. Basically 5 individuals instead of 1 team on the court more often than not.
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Post#6 Re: Why does bryant attempt so many shots in
Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:06 am by HotRocks34

I think he does it now so that his shot is at its best, before his legs tire a bit in the second half.

Kobe's shot often seems, to me, a little bit flatter in the second half of games. So I think he tries to get his best shots in the first half. At his age and mileage, it's not necessarily a bad strategy. Particularly with the amount of minutes he's having to play this season.
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Post#7 Re: Why does bryant attempt so many shots in
Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:17 am by Michael Lucky

that's funny since he takes a lot more shots in the second half than he does in the first, take last nights game for example. Kobe tends to go for 30 when his team is down by double digits, and he's trying to bring them back into games, so yeah it's no wonder the record sucks.

and in doing so he's averaging 34ppg on 49% FG and 42% from 3 in losses. He's the last person i'd blame for the lack of success and I was one of the biggest advocates of keeping his shots down last year and feeding the ball to Bynum down the stretch. Unfortunately we don't have Bynum we have Howard who is a liability at the end of games.
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Post#8 Re: Why does bryant attempt so many shots in
Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:19 am by MrBigShot

KiDeezy wrote:Lol, there's no use explaining these things to closed-minded people like you.


Why? He's 100% right.

It's only logical when you have two of the best bigmen in the game...to get them involved early. When bigmen get touches, they start to do other things better because they are motivated. When they become a problem in the paint, then they will get double teamed, which will lead to ball reversal, and ball reversal=profit.
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Post#9 Re: Why does bryant attempt so many shots in
Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:26 am by Michael Lucky

MrBigShot wrote:
KiDeezy wrote:Lol, there's no use explaining these things to closed-minded people like you.


Why? He's 100% right.

It's only logical when you have two of the best bigmen in the game...to get them involved early. When bigmen get touches, they start to do other things better because they are motivated. When they become a problem in the paint, then they will get double teamed, which will lead to ball reversal, and ball reversal=profit.


two of the best bigmen? Pau has been dealing with weak knees this year and hasn't looked likek the best of anything and I love Pau. As for Howard, he's a beast on D, but the guy gets the ball stripped as many times as he gets the shot off on offense these days.
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Post#10 Re: Why does bryant attempt so many shots in
Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:43 am by JonFromVA

moocow007 wrote:Michael Jordan knew when to pull it in and when to go into god mode. He knew that he needed his teammates to win games but also knew, probably more than anyone else to ever play the game, when he needed to turn it on and do it himself. Bryant isn't Jordan in that regards.


Jordan didn't know. He had it shoved down his throat by Phil Jackson who implemented the triangle in big part to get the ball out of MJ's hands. Phil had to convince Michael to stop attempting hero shots and kick the ball back to wide open shooters.
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Post#11 Re: Why does bryant attempt so many shots in
Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:47 am by Thats_my_chippy

He's doing it because no one else on the Lakers can (in his opinion)...

That and the offense in Laker land right now is 'Give Kobe the Ball'.
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Post#12 Re: Why does bryant attempt so many shots in
Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:53 am by MrBigShot

Michael Lucky wrote:
MrBigShot wrote:
KiDeezy wrote:Lol, there's no use explaining these things to closed-minded people like you.


Why? He's 100% right.

It's only logical when you have two of the best bigmen in the game...to get them involved early. When bigmen get touches, they start to do other things better because they are motivated. When they become a problem in the paint, then they will get double teamed, which will lead to ball reversal, and ball reversal=profit.


two of the best bigmen? Pau has been dealing with weak knees this year and hasn't looked likek the best of anything and I love Pau. As for Howard, he's a beast on D, but the guy gets the ball stripped as many times as he gets the shot off on offense these days.


OK...two talented bigmen. Sound better? Pau doesn't rely on athelticism, so whenever he gets healthy again, there is no reason he shouldn't be able to play up to the Pau of the 2 ship repeat. His struggles are partially due to the fact that he is playing around the free throw line, when he should be posting up. He's the best passing bigmen and has plenty of post moves...

Dwight does get the ball stripped alot, but he's still has a few somewhat decent moves...and you don't necessarily need to post him, run pick and roll. He will get people in foul trouble and finish with a high percentage.

No matter how you spin it, working inside out is a much better strategy than taking your teammates out of the game early.
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Post#13 Re: Why does bryant attempt so many shots in
Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:20 pm by JellosJigglin

moocow007 wrote:
va-mos wrote:This year the Lakers are:
1-10 when Kobe scores 30 points or more.
8-3 when Kobe has 5 or more assists.


Very interesting stats. Yep. I think right now chaos is basically reigning and you just really don't have a cohesive team. There is no commanding presence on the bench (with D'Antoni). There's the friction that has obviously boiled over between Bryant and Gasol. There's Dwight Howard newly introduced onto a team that may or may not (likely the later) been the team he really wanted to go to. No system that works to the strengths of the players on the team. No leadership. No accountability (which starts with Bryant). No real sense of urgency. Basically 5 individuals instead of 1 team on the court more often than not.


Here's an interesting stat to counter-point the previous one. The Lakers are the only team in the league who are out of playoff position and average more PPG than their opponents. How is it even possible to have a losing record when you're scoring more than your opponent? It's because when the lakers win they BLOW OUT their opponent. When it's a close game, they lose.

Guess what Kobe does when the team is winning a blow out? He chills out and lets his teammates do their thing. Guess what he does when they're getting blown out? He SCORES more because he's the best player on the team and they need points. He's averaging the least SHOTS he's averaged since 1999. But now people can't point at the shot attempts so they criticize him for scoring at the best efficiency of his 17 year career? Are you kidding me? :lol:

Kobe took only 10 shots in the first half last night (7/10 FG) and the team was losing by 15 to one of the worst teams in the league. That's not Kobe's fault. Now we have troll threads like this one bringing up game 7 :lol:
:evil: THEY WILL PAY FOR THEIR BASKETBALL REASONS :evil:
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Post#14 Re: Why does bryant attempt so many shots in
Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:32 pm by shobe_24

Interesting :-?

1st quarter: 5-6
2nd quarter: 2-4
1st Half Total: 7-10
He's on pace for 20 attempts at this point.

Result: Lakers down by 15!

Do people even bother watching games before talking out of their arse? Or even look at the shot chart before making a baseless observation? I know they've got their tunnel vision just looking at fg/a FG% Assists and Rebounts and coming to their own conclusion.

As a coach, If a joe shmo came into my lockerroom at halftime telling me that Kobe needs to let the teammates cuddle the ball when Kobe goes for 7-10 and we're still down by 15, I'd personally throw the person outta the building myself.

Ridiculous the lack of thinking some of you display.
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Post#15 Re: Why does bryant attempt so many shots in
Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:33 pm by mysticbb

JellosJigglin wrote:Kobe took only 10 shots in the first half last night (7/10 FG) and the team was losing by 15 to one of the worst teams in the league. That's not Kobe's fault. Now we have troll threads like this one bringing up game 7 :lol:


Bryant is taking 10 FGA in average in the first half this season so far. In games in which he took 10 or more FGA in the first half, the Lakers went 3-9, in games he took 9 or less, the Lakers are 6-4. When we look at the scoring margin in the respective games adjusted for HCA and strength of opponents, we are getting a -0.2 correlation coefficient between Bryant's first half FGA number and the performance level of the Lakers in the respective game. Meaning: The Lakers played in average worse, when Bryant had more FGA in the first half.

Somehow the op is going in the right direction here.
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Post#16 Re: Why does bryant attempt so many shots in
Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:40 pm by Sedale Threatt

I'm just going to steal this from another thread. It speaks for itself.

mysticbb wrote:While it is true that Bryant's defense is more an issue than his offensive approach, the matter of fact is that the Lakers are playing quite well with Bryant on the court. 111.5 ORtg, 103.0 DRtg for a +8.5 per 100 possession with Bryant on the court is completely fine. The main issue of the Lakers is their performance level without Bryant on the court, 98.3 ORtg and 108.1 Drtg for -9.8 when Bryant is off the court is just bad. The Lakers are losing the game when Bryant is off the court, not when he is on. Let us see how they are doing when Gasol and Nash are back, I assume that this will lead to a massive improvement of the overall bench play and therefore to more overall team success.


///

moocow007 wrote:Michael Jordan knew when to pull it in and when to go into god mode. He knew that he needed his teammates to win games but also knew, probably more than anyone else to ever play the game, when he needed to turn it on and do it himself. Bryant isn't Jordan in that regards.


Bryant isn't Jordan in a lot of regards.

But this team's problem at the moment, by a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge margin, is that it's not healthy. Their preferred starting lineup has played a grand total of 43 minutes this season. Nash has played in two games. Gasol has been hobbled by tendinitis.

As such, outside of All-Star center Dwight Howard and hustle player Jordan Hill, who I like a lot but is limited offensively, the Lakers ran out six guys last night with PERs below 13.0.

These aren't excuses, these are facts. As such, expecting Bryant to be able to manipulate superior performances from guys like Antawn Jamison and Chris Duhon by virtue of when he does and doesn't shoot is just silly.
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Post#17 Re: Why does bryant attempt so many shots in
Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:48 pm by moocow007

MrBigShot wrote:
KiDeezy wrote:Lol, there's no use explaining these things to closed-minded people like you.


Why? He's 100% right.

It's only logical when you have two of the best bigmen in the game...to get them involved early. When bigmen get touches, they start to do other things better because they are motivated. When they become a problem in the paint, then they will get double teamed, which will lead to ball reversal, and ball reversal=profit.


Yep.
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Post#18 Re: Why does bryant attempt so many shots in
Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:49 pm by mysticbb

Sedale Threatt wrote:As such, expecting Bryant to be able to manipulate superior performances from guys like Antawn Jamison and Chris Duhon by virtue of when he does and doesn't shoot is just silly.


I wouldn't call that silly. There is a clear tendency that average or below average players need trust and the opportunity to succeed early in games. A superstar should be able to "turn it on" later, if it is really not working. Obviously, that also depends on the individual situations in the respective games, but in average the numbers suggest that Bryant taking less shots in the first half, ends with a overall better performance.

The injury problem (Duhon, Morris and Hill instead of Nash, Blake and Gasol!) is the bigger issue for the Lakers in regards to their current record, the next one is the inability to close out a winnable game (3 times the Lakers lost by 2 points despite the chance to win) and then we can talk about turnovers, then about defense and then about Bryant's shot selection.
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Post#19 Re: Why does bryant attempt so many shots in
Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:49 pm by moocow007

JonFromVA wrote:
moocow007 wrote:Michael Jordan knew when to pull it in and when to go into god mode. He knew that he needed his teammates to win games but also knew, probably more than anyone else to ever play the game, when he needed to turn it on and do it himself. Bryant isn't Jordan in that regards.


Jordan didn't know. He had it shoved down his throat by Phil Jackson who implemented the triangle in big part to get the ball out of MJ's hands. Phil had to convince Michael to stop attempting hero shots and kick the ball back to wide open shooters.


Sure he knew...not in the beginning, which is why Jordan didn't win until he got what Jackson was preaching. Jordan said it himself.
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Post#20 Re: Why does bryant attempt so many shots in
Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:55 pm by moocow007

JellosJigglin wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
va-mos wrote:This year the Lakers are:
1-10 when Kobe scores 30 points or more.
8-3 when Kobe has 5 or more assists.


Very interesting stats. Yep. I think right now chaos is basically reigning and you just really don't have a cohesive team. There is no commanding presence on the bench (with D'Antoni). There's the friction that has obviously boiled over between Bryant and Gasol. There's Dwight Howard newly introduced onto a team that may or may not (likely the later) been the team he really wanted to go to. No system that works to the strengths of the players on the team. No leadership. No accountability (which starts with Bryant). No real sense of urgency. Basically 5 individuals instead of 1 team on the court more often than not.


Here's an interesting stat to counter-point the previous one. The Lakers are the only team in the league who are out of playoff position and average more PPG than their opponents. How is it even possible to have a losing record when you're scoring more than your opponent? It's because when the lakers win they BLOW OUT their opponent. When it's a close game, they lose.

Guess what Kobe does when the team is winning a blow out? He chills out and lets his teammates do their thing. Guess what he does when they're getting blown out? He SCORES more because he's the best player on the team and they need points. He's averaging the least SHOTS he's averaged since 1999. But now people can't point at the shot attempts so they criticize him for scoring at the best efficiency of his 17 year career? Are you kidding me? :lol:

Kobe took only 10 shots in the first half last night (7/10 FG) and the team was losing by 15 to one of the worst teams in the league. That's not Kobe's fault. Now we have troll threads like this one bringing up game 7 :lol:


That's an interesting way to look at it as well.

As far as game 7? What game 7? What are you talking about? You referring to the OP's post or mine?

But the question probably should be, what is the cause of the grave inconsistency the Lakers have shown most of the games this season? Lack of team play. Lack of consistent effort. Lack of a system that works (a biggy). Are all very real problems. Not sure about the OP but I'm not saying that it's Bryants fault. Saying that he's doing what he thinks is best is saying its his fault how? Try calming down before reading what folks are posting.
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