Why does bryant attempt so many shots in 1st half of games?

[Sedale Threatt]

The injury problem (Duhon, Morris and Hill instead of Nash, Blake and Gasol!) is the bigger issue for the Lakers in regards to their current record, the next one is the inability to close out a winnable game (3 times the Lakers lost by 2 points despite the chance to win) and then we can talk about turnovers, then about defense and then about Bryant's shot selection.

There you go, that's a better way to put it -- basically, this team has far bigger problems than Kobe's shooting.

As I said in the other thread, if he was freezing out, say, Gary Neal and Matt Bonner, I'd be royally pissed. But that's obviously not the case.

Of course, the Lakers are ultimately to blame for their current plight. We chose top-heavy instead of balanced, and now we're paying the price in a huge way.

I just don't see many taking a broad view at the overall picture, and it's irritating.

[moocow007]

I'm just going to steal this from another thread. It speaks for itself.

While it is true that Bryant's defense is more an issue than his offensive approach, the matter of fact is that the Lakers are playing quite well with Bryant on the court. 111.5 ORtg, 103.0 DRtg for a +8.5 per 100 possession with Bryant on the court is completely fine. The main issue of the Lakers is their performance level without Bryant on the court, 98.3 ORtg and 108.1 Drtg for -9.8 when Bryant is off the court is just bad. The Lakers are losing the game when Bryant is off the court, not when he is on. Let us see how they are doing when Gasol and Nash are back, I assume that this will lead to a massive improvement of the overall bench play and therefore to more overall team success.

///

Michael Jordan knew when to pull it in and when to go into god mode. He knew that he needed his teammates to win games but also knew, probably more than anyone else to ever play the game, when he needed to turn it on and do it himself. Bryant isn't Jordan in that regards.

Bryant isn't Jordan in a lot of regards.

But this team's problem at the moment, by a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge margin, is that it's not healthy. Their preferred starting lineup has played a grand total of 43 minutes this season. Nash has played in two games. Gasol has been hobbled by tendinitis.

As such, outside of All-Star center Dwight Howard and hustle player Jordan Hill, who I like a lot but is limited offensively, the Lakers ran out six guys last night with PERs below 13.0.

These aren't excuses, these are facts. As such, expecting Bryant to be able to manipulate superior performances from guys like Antawn Jamison and Chris Duhon by virtue of when he does and doesn't shoot is just silly.

I hear you but the thing is PER is a result of something. Some could be that the player is just not good. But some also could be because the team chemistry isn't condusive to performing above and beyond. Or that the system just really poorly utilizes the skills of the players on the team. System is the head coach, and that's been discussed ad nauseum in multiple other threads (D'Antoni is just terrible system wise for this team right now). Chemistry? That's more of a team thing and as some have said, leaders tend to weigh in more on the chemistry front. Kobe Bryant should be viewed as the leader of the team on the floor. Considering D'Antoni is against getting involved in player management, Bryant (probalby unfairly) is probably the defacto leader off of it as well. There's a lot of pressure on him right now not just to carry the offensive load (as a lot of Laker fans on the GB board is defending) but also somehow leading his teammates and getting them to play at a higher level despite the system. It's the same expectations that were placed on Carmelo Anthony last season (same situation with poor system, coach that can't hold players responsible for anything and lack of overal PER output)...that he's supposed to make his teammates better (the whole "that's what superstars are supposed to do" argument). Right or wrong, is the question.

[Father Time]

As such, expecting Bryant to be able to manipulate superior performances from guys like Antawn Jamison and Chris Duhon by virtue of when he does and doesn't shoot is just silly.

I wouldn't call that silly. There is a clear tendency that average or below average players need trust and the opportunity to succeed early in games. A superstar should be able to "turn it on" later, if it is really not working. Obviously, that also depends on the individual situations in the respective games, but in average the numbers suggest that Bryant taking less shots in the first half, ends with a overall better performance.

The injury problem (Duhon, Morris and Hill instead of Nash, Blake and Gasol!) is the bigger issue for the Lakers in regards to their current record, the next one is the inability to close out a winnable game (3 times the Lakers lost by 2 points despite the chance to win) and then we can talk about turnovers, then about defense and then about Bryant's shot selection.

Add free throws to that list.

[Michael Lucky]

FTs will always be a problem with Dwight there. Nothing we can do about it.

[Sedale Threatt]

I hear you but the thing is PER is a result of something. Some could be that the player is just not good. But some also could be because the team chemistry isn't condusive to performing above and beyond. Or that the system just really poorly utilizes the skills of the players on the team. System is the head coach, and that's been discussed ad nauseum in multiple other threads (D'Antoni is just terrible system wise for this team right now). Chemistry? That's more of a team thing and as some have said, leaders tend to weigh in more on the chemistry front. Kobe Bryant should be viewed as the leader of the team on the floor. Considering D'Antoni is against getting involved in player management, Bryant (probalby unfairly) is probably the defacto leader off of it as well. There's a lot of pressure on him right now not just to carry the offensive load (as a lot of Laker fans on the GB board is defending) but also somehow leading his teammates and getting them to play at a higher level despite the system. It's the same expectations that were placed on Carmelo Anthony last season (same situation with poor system, coach that can't hold players responsible for anything and lack of overal PER output)...that he's supposed to make his teammates better (the whole "that's what superstars are supposed to do" argument). Right or wrong, is the question.

Two things:

1. Still no mention of health, which has prevented this team from running out its best lineup for all but 43 minutes this season.

2. Charles Barkley, on the notion of "making players better": Magic got to make Kareem and James Worthy better. Mike got to make Scottie Pippen better. I got to make Shelton Jones better.

Like I said previously, if this team were at full strength, or even if Kobe was blowing off quality role players, I'd be royally pissed. But that is not the case.

As mystic pointed out, the Lakers are not losing the game when Kobe is on the court. I'm just going to keep referring from his post from now on.

[mysticbb]

I just don't see many taking a broad view at the overall picture, and it's irritating.

Well, what is easier? Blame the star player or look at the whole picture? Well, you know the answer.

Especially when we look at Bryant's shooting I see someone shooting well above league average, even if we dismiss the first 8 games as crazy outlier (67 TS% and 61 eFG%), he still has 59 TS% and 51 eFG% for the last 14 games. I really see little to no problem with his shooting. Maybe one shot here and there was the typical hero shot, but overall his shooting this season so far is fine. The turnovers on the other hand are a concern, especially because some were really silly. Or his defense off the ball, missed rotations, etc, that is something Bryant can be critized for, but that might also be something which can be fixed when the circumstance for the Lakers improving (meaning, at least Nash and Gasol are coming back healthy). And a healthy Lakers team can easily go on some 10+ winning streaks.

But well, right now, every non-Lakers fan is most certainly enjoying the losses for the Lakers. ;)

[sportjames23]

I don't think it's a matter of IQ (he's a very smart guy and you don't help teams win as many championships as he has without having a great feel for the game). Rather (and I've mentioned this in a few other threads) I think the problem is that you need someone in some position of authority that he will listen to to keep his emotions and competitiveness in under control. Phil Jackson (a guy that Bryant basically had a love-hate respect for) was a master at it and the results are obvious. D'Antoni? Really the polar opposite in that respect.

Bryant is without doubt one of the top 3-5 offensive talents in the NBA. No one knows it better than he himself. Unbridled and freed of any real system or structure (right now under D'antoni's free flowing system) he's just basically going with what he does best unchallenged (D'Antoni has said himself on numerous occassions that he doesn't believe the head coach needs to deal with player personalities). I'm sure the frustration of how the Lakers have played recently is also contributing to him trying to "save the team by himself by going into God mode" mode.

Michael Jordan knew when to pull it in and when to go into god mode. He knew that he needed his teammates to win games but also knew, probably more than anyone else to ever play the game, when he needed to turn it on and do it himself. Bryant isn't Jordan in that regards.

Bottom line, I think Bryant needs someone THAT HE ACTUALLY RESPECTS AND WOULD LISTEN TO to tell him to take it easy there and get his teammates involved. Phil Jackson is one guy that could do that and that Bryant would listen to (Buss Jr apparently decided that it's more important for him to win the ego battle than to do what 99.44% of the world felt would have been the only choice). Not sure how many other guys qualify or that not only can tell him to ease it a bit but that Bryant would actually respect enough to listen to. He's obviously not going to get it from his current coach. He won't listen to Gasol obviously (lol). Dwight Howard doesn't seem like the type of guy that would bring something like that up. Nash is injured so don't know if Bryant would take advise from him (though Nash probably is ideally the most likely "calming influence" of the bunch). Anything coming out of MWP's mouth would seem contrite. No one else is in any remote position of anything to even open their mouths.

Well said.

But, y'know, it's funny that Dan Tony can't reign Kobe in, considering that he was Kobe's idol when Kobe's dad played overseas in Euroleague, where Pringles was The Man.

[Chet Wagner]

The Lakers coaches are so stupid, why wasn't there an assistant holding up a countdown poster telling him how many shots he had left? You think it would be common sense.

Once he got to 28 pts someone should have told him so he could stop shooting and feed Duhon

[Magic Mamba]

This year the Lakers are:
1-10 when Kobe scores 30 points or more.
8-3 when Kobe has 5 or more assists.

Very interesting stats. Yep. I think right now chaos is basically reigning and you just really don't have a cohesive team. There is no commanding presence on the bench (with D'Antoni). There's the friction that has obviously boiled over between Bryant and Gasol. There's Dwight Howard newly introduced onto a team that may or may not (likely the later) been the team he really wanted to go to. No system that works to the strengths of the players on the team. No leadership. No accountability (which starts with Bryant). No real sense of urgency. Basically 5 individuals instead of 1 team on the court more often than not.

There is nothing interesting about that stat, he only shoots more when his teamates struggle.

[Magic Mamba]

The Lakers coaches are so stupid, why wasn't there an assistant holding up a countdown poster telling him how many shots he had left? You think it would be common sense.

Once he got to 28 pts someone should have told him so he could stop shooting and feed Duhon

[va-mos]

There is nothing interesting about that stat, he only shoots more when his teamates struggle.

The other way around actually. The more Bryant shoots in the first half the less involved his teammates are and the more they struggle thereafter.

Bryant in the 1st Half:
10+ fg attempts = Lakers 3-9
under 10 fg attempts = Lakers 6-4

Remember Jordan's post-game interview after scoring 55 in the NBA Finals vs Phoenix? Jordan said he was afraid that his hot start would ruin the game because his teammates were cold due to lack of involvement. And to an extent, it did ruin the game, as it came down to the final minute (game-clinching 3-point play by Jordan in the face of Barkley). Jordan was aware of this dynamic, even in 1993. He rarely let it happen. He let the game come to him. The Bulls made it a habit to feed Bill Cartwright early in games. Jordan must be extremely envious of Bryant; getting to feed Shaq, Bynum, Gasol and now Dwight

[sportjames23]

Good God, just imagine MJ and Shaq on the same team. We're talkin' minimum 8-peat, my friend.

[JellosJigglin]

jordan was the biggest alpha a-hole in the history of mankind. He wouldn't have put up with shaq's lazy attitude.

[JellosJigglin]

There is nothing interesting about that stat, he only shoots more when his teamates struggle.

The other way around actually. The more Bryant shoots in the first half the less involved his teammates are and the more they struggle thereafter.

Bryant in the 1st Half:
10+ fg attempts = Lakers 3-9
under 10 fg attempts = Lakers 6-4

Remember Jordan's post-game interview after scoring 55 in the NBA Finals vs Phoenix? Jordan said he was afraid that his hot start would ruin the game because his teammates were cold due to lack of involvement. And to an extent, it did ruin the game, as it came down to the final minute (game-clinching 3-point play by Jordan in the face of Barkley). Jordan was aware of this dynamic, even in 1993. He rarely let it happen. He let the game come to him. The Bulls made it a habit to feed Bill Cartwright early in games. Jordan must be extremely envious of Bryant; getting to feed Shaq, Bynum, Gasol and now Dwight

People have been going round and round for years with this argument. People who watch the game can see Kobe take over when the team is struggling. And then there are people who obsess over box scores and claim the team struggles because he shoots a lot. Let's forget the fact Kobe is attempting the least shots of his career since 1999. It's the same chicken or the egg argument over and over. Watch the games. Kobe's having an amazing season. Let's see if anyone else decides to step up and help him.

[Black Feet]

Lol no MJ and Shaq would clash real quick those egos would not coexist for too long. If MJ wanted more rings he shouldn't have retired during his prime.

[spearsy23]

FTs will always be a problem with Dwight there. Nothing we can do about it.

He could learn to shoot free throws.

[va-mos]

There is nothing interesting about that stat, he only shoots more when his teamates struggle.

The other way around actually. The more Bryant shoots in the first half the less involved his teammates are and the more they struggle thereafter.

Bryant in the 1st Half:
10+ fg attempts = Lakers 3-9
under 10 fg attempts = Lakers 6-4

Remember Jordan's post-game interview after scoring 55 in the NBA Finals vs Phoenix? Jordan said he was afraid that his hot start would ruin the game because his teammates were cold due to lack of involvement. And to an extent, it did ruin the game, as it came down to the final minute (game-clinching 3-point play by Jordan in the face of Barkley). Jordan was aware of this dynamic, even in 1993. He rarely let it happen. He let the game come to him. The Bulls made it a habit to feed Bill Cartwright early in games. Jordan must be extremely envious of Bryant; getting to feed Shaq, Bynum, Gasol and now Dwight

People have been going round and round for years with this argument. People who watch the game can see Kobe take over when the team is struggling. And then there are people who obsess over box scores and claim the team struggles because he shoots a lot. Let's forget the fact Kobe is attempting the least shots of his career since 1999. It's the same chicken or the egg argument over and over. Watch the games. Kobe's having an amazing season. Let's see if anyone else decides to step up and help him.

How long does Kobe wait before he takes over. Does he say "Oh no we are down by 8 in the first quarter, I better go into hog mode...." Because if that's his attitude then he's got it all wrong. Games fluctuate a lot in the 1st half. Being down early means nothing. And as has been proven, when he tries to be the savior early in games it doesn't work out. 10 or more shots in the 1st half = 3-9 record.

[Asianiac_24]

Kobe is averaging 29/5/5 on 61 TS% and 54 eFG%. Kobe's not shooting us out of games (except against Memphis). Scoring isn't the problem right now, the biggest problems are turnovers, defense, and effort. The Lakers' ORTG is 8th in the league, which isn't great but certainly aren't bad. The problem is defense, where they're DRTG is 17th in the league. Kobe's main faults this year has been turnovers and defense. His shooting is amazing thus far

[doozyj]

Kobe is averaging 29/5/5 on 61 TS% and 54 eFG%. Kobe's not shooting us out of games (except against Memphis). Scoring isn't the problem right now, the biggest problems are turnovers, defense, and effort. The Lakers' ORTG is 8th in the league, which isn't great but certainly aren't bad. The problem is defense, where they're DRTG is 17th in the league. Kobe's main faults this year has been turnovers and defense. His shooting is amazing thus far

The biggest problems is that everybody else sucks not name Kobe, inluding Pringles.

[rockmanslim]

Good God, just imagine MJ and Shaq on the same team. We're talkin' minimum 8-peat, my friend.

What if you could have two players? Say MJ, and a certain coach Ditka.