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Why does bryant attempt so many shots in 1st half of games?

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Post#61 Re: Why does bryant attempt so many shots in
Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:21 pm by va-mos

Dr Pepper wrote: If Kobe was a more fundamentally sound player the Lakers would probably have had even more overall wins


Exactly. There is a reason why Laker fans (and Artest) begin each season expecting 70 wins and begin each playoffs expecting to sweep every series. On paper, a superstar with a supporting cast like Gasol/Bynum (or Gasol/Dwight) should be winning everything. Instead they were taken to 7 games by the ailing Celtics, and were trailing by double-digits for most of Game 7 in LA.

The thing I want to know is, if Kobe is a very good player then why is he shooting around 40% in each NBA Finals? Sure, people say "he won the rings, so what does it matter.....?" but he won with Shaq's prime form, then Shaq left and LA missed the playoffs one year, and were booted by Phoenix in the 1st Round, twice (including a game 7 disaster). Then they got Gasol, and the rest is history.
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Post#62 Re: Why does bryant attempt so many shots in
Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:07 pm by Respect My Mind

JellosJigglin wrote:
Sedale Threatt wrote:
Respect My Mind wrote:You are trying to blame things on 40 year old Jamison and a guy who got cut by the 76'ers. Scrubs will be scrubs...


Well there you go. You could have just posted that and saved yourself a ton of time.


It appears he backed himself into a corner there, didn't he? :lol:


What are you homers laughing about? I said what I said because you can make these scrubs serviceable if you MAKE PLAYS FOR THEM. If not they will just be scrubs. And because miraculously Kobe has found a way to be ball dominant without being a play maker, you are sad because the team is scrubby?
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Post#63 Re: Why does bryant attempt so many shots in
Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:46 pm by tsherkin

Respect My Mind wrote:What are you homers laughing about? I said what I said because you can make these scrubs serviceable if you MAKE PLAYS FOR THEM.


1) You're wrong.

Jamison was no better for Lebron; he blew chunks in the playoffs and was wretched on defense. Lebron is a noted playmaker and Twan was still a brick-layer.

2) You're looking to Jamison as an issue when he was merely one example among many I gave...

While blatantly ignoring that LA is the 8th-best offense in the league and scored 107 points in that game.

Offense is NOT the problem!

And if the players are that stupid that, in a game where they were PLENTY involved offensively, they STILL didn't hustle on D, then they are totally worthless contracts independent of what Kobe is or isn't doing.

Again, in the game being discussed, there was no issue with getting the peripheral players involved. Guys got tons of shots, but Kobe, Metta, Dwight and Ebanks carried the team's offense and the defense was ABOMINABLE. Let this register.

I said it before, but 41 points on 74% FG is APPALLINGLY bad and that's the result of New York ripping them apart from the word "go," not because of Kobe's play.
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Post#64 Re: Why does bryant attempt so many shots in
Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:00 pm by Respect My Mind

tsherkin wrote:
Respect My Mind wrote:What are you homers laughing about? I said what I said because you can make these scrubs serviceable if you MAKE PLAYS FOR THEM.


1) You're wrong.

Jamison was no better for Lebron; he blew chunks in the playoffs and was wretched on defense. Lebron is a noted playmaker and Twan was still a brick-layer.

2) You're looking to Jamison as an issue when he was merely one example among many I gave...

While blatantly ignoring that LA is the 8th-best offense in the league and scored 107 points in that game.

Offense is NOT the problem!

And if the players are that stupid that, in a game where they were PLENTY involved offensively, they STILL didn't hustle on D, then they are totally worthless contracts independent of what Kobe is or isn't doing.

Again, in the game being discussed, there was no issue with getting the peripheral players involved. Guys got tons of shots, but Kobe, Metta, Dwight and Ebanks carried the team's offense and the defense was ABOMINABLE. Let this register.

I said it before, but 41 points on 74% FG is APPALLINGLY bad and that's the result of New York ripping them apart from the word "go," not because of Kobe's play.


You can't judge an offense purely just on how many points are scored. The offense is LEADS to bad floor balance because Kobe doesn't shoot within any kind of sets, he arbitrarily decides to shoot no matter where he or his teammates are on the floor. None of his teammates know whether they should be crashing the boards, getting back on D to provide floor balance, spacing the floor on the shot or cutting to the basket. Thus you have players out of position and cross matched when there is a miss. The bad Kobe offense LEADS to transition opportunities for the other team. Kobe has come out himself and said Transition D is their Achilles heel.

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Post#65 Re: Why does bryant attempt so many shots in
Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:05 pm by tsherkin

Respect My Mind wrote:You can't judge an offense purely just on how many points are scored. The offense is LEADS to bad floor balance because Kobe doesn't shoot within any kind of sets, he arbitrarily decides to shoot no matter where he or his teammates are on the floor.


Repeating a comment doesn't make it any more true.

In the game we're talking about, what you're saying did not happen. L.A. had breadth in offense, strong team efficiency and played well. They did not give up a ton of buckets in transition, they got torn apart in the half-court.

Kobe has come out himself and said Transition D is their Achilles heel.


And it's been a problem at times in other games. It was not against the Knicks.
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Post#66 Re: Why does bryant attempt so many shots in
Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:16 pm by Respect My Mind

tsherkin wrote:
Respect My Mind wrote:You can't judge an offense purely just on how many points are scored. The offense is LEADS to bad floor balance because Kobe doesn't shoot within any kind of sets, he arbitrarily decides to shoot no matter where he or his teammates are on the floor.


Repeating a comment doesn't make it any more true.

In the game we're talking about, what you're saying did not happen. L.A. had breadth in offense, strong team efficiency and played well. They did not give up a ton of buckets in transition, they got torn apart in the half-court.

Kobe has come out himself and said Transition D is their Achilles heel.


And it's been a problem at times in other games. It was not against the Knicks.



It seems I do need to repeat it because you are turning a blind eye. When we talk about transition its not always your prototypical 2-on-1 layup drill. For the game, the Knicks were 9-for-11 in transition, including 6-for-7 from 3-point range. That's rape my friend and your boy Kobe has a lot to do with it.

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Post#67 Re: Why does bryant attempt so many shots in
Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:28 pm by tsherkin

I'm not turning a blind eye. What you're ignoring is that the Lakers took 37 3s. They made 12.

They missed 25 3PAs, and the Knicks slaughtered them in the secondary following the defensive boards they got following those long misses.

Kobe took 11 3s and made 5, missing only 6.

Meeks was 2-9, Ebanks was 0-3, Duhon was 1-5, Jamison 1-3 and Metta 3-6.

You keep trying to trace this back to Kobe, but volume 3pt brickery was a MUCH bigger issue, and he was not the worst offender there, because he was connecting at a fantastic percentage.

Surely, Kobe wasn't playing amazing defense. Surely, his efforts there and a couple of bad shots didn't help but there were MUCH larger issues with the team.

Also notice that while they were technically 9/11 "in transition," the Knicks only scored 16 fastbreak points. Yeah, they scored 24 points in total transition, but that's reasonably similar to what L.A. themselves managed. You're trying to tie this to Kobe and it's not working. He shot a bit too much and he had a few bad shots but he was not the core issue.
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Post#68 Re: Why does bryant attempt so many shots in
Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:53 pm by DMVleGeND

Are you Mike Breen or something? Who the hell calls Kobe Bryant "Bryant?" Just call him Kobe lol.
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Post#69 Re: Why does bryant attempt so many shots in
Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:55 pm by 5DOM

Kobe's shooting less this season and his usage rate is also down. If his selfishness is such a problem, why didn't it stop the Lakers from winning 50+ games season after season when he was more selfish than he is right now?

There's not too much wrong with Lakers offence and Kobe's shot selection this season and he's actually been brilliant offensively. It will go down, but his TS% is at career high.
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Post#70 Re: Why does bryant attempt so many shots in
Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:05 pm by shobe_24

5DOM wrote:Kobe's shooting less this season and his usage rate is also down. If his selfishness is such a problem, why didn't it stop the Lakers from winning 50+ games season after season when he was more selfish than he is right now?


Because his teams was STACKED with Odom/Gasol/Bynum! Had Kobe not been selfish, they wouldve won 72 a season at MINIMUM! And likely SWEPT the playoffs year after year.
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Post#71 Re: Why does bryant attempt so many shots in
Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:08 pm by Respect My Mind

tsherkin wrote:I'm not turning a blind eye. What you're ignoring is that the Lakers took 37 3s. They made 12.

They missed 25 3PAs, and the Knicks slaughtered them in the secondary following the defensive boards they got following those long misses.

Kobe took 11 3s and made 5, missing only 6.

Meeks was 2-9, Ebanks was 0-3, Duhon was 1-5, Jamison 1-3 and Metta 3-6.

You keep trying to trace this back to Kobe, but volume 3pt brickery was a MUCH bigger issue, and he was not the worst offender there, because he was connecting at a fantastic percentage.

Surely, Kobe wasn't playing amazing defense. Surely, his efforts there and a couple of bad shots didn't help but there were MUCH larger issues with the team.

Also notice that while they were technically 9/11 "in transition," the Knicks only scored 16 fastbreak points. Yeah, they scored 24 points in total transition, but that's reasonably similar to what L.A. themselves managed. You're trying to tie this to Kobe and it's not working. He shot a bit too much and he had a few bad shots but he was not the core issue.



An offense in which Kobe dominates the ball has a volume 3pt brickery identity? Gee I wonder why? Replace Kobe with Rondo or Wade and I guarantee you the offense as a whole does not have that same identity. Your dog Kobe needs to restructure his contract.
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Post#72 Re: Why does bryant attempt so many shots in
Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:26 pm by G35

The problem is that Kobe is not the athlete he once was but is still able to score at a reliable rate. His best teammates are not great scorers and do not have the fallback of a system to get them generate shots for everyone. With Michael and the Bulls, Scottie was more of the playmaker and could run the offense with/without MJ on the court. When Kobe goes out there isn't anyone on the perimeter that the defense has to respect.

This has actually been a problem for the Lakers for a while. Not having another good playmaker on the perimeter allows defenses to pack the paint and dare the Lakers to beat them from the perimeter. The Lakers have not had the shooters to punish a team for packing the paint on their big men.

Along with not having any young legs at any position except for Howard teams can essentially run the Lakers into the ground unless Kobe is on fire keeping them in the game. Then if Howard gets into foul trouble (which is very likely) then teams don't even have to worry about any shotblocking. Now this is pretty apparent NOW, but when the team was put together EVERYONE had some assumptions:

- We all thought Nash would make the offense run smoothly and get everyone some easy shots. Not happening but offense is not really the Lakers achilles heel. They can score enough to win

- We all thought that adding Howard to for a Pau/Howard front court would at least make the defense decent enough for the Lakers to win games. Instead Pau can't move well enough laterally to defend quicker fours and the pnr.

- that the talent would be good enough to at least make them a playoff contender. The chemistry is not there, and D'Antoni never works on defense. So the players are going start bickering and it's only going to get worse.

I don't know the fix for this team. I would probably trade Dwight for some potential/athleticism at the 3/4 spots. Get some youth on this team that can run up and down the court and defend. Otherwise I just don't see this mix of players getting it together at least this year......
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Post#73 Re: Why does bryant attempt so many shots in
Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:00 pm by OneWhoKnocks

tsherkin dropping some knowledge! Haha don't even bother man. Sometimes logic and statistical proof isn't enough to victims of cognitive dissonance. I wonder if some of these posters still think the earth is flat.

They like to bring up arbitrary stats with no context as if it means anything. If they watched the game, they would know the Lakers were missing wide open looks, with many of these looks due to the attention Kobe draws on defense, but noooooo Kobe has to keep feeding them otherwise the team will apparently stop playing defense as a whole! Kobe isn't even a natural pointguard either. It's quite ridiculous that the man is averaging 60%+ TS% while attempting to be a playmaker not only at his age, but with the ridiculous amount of minutes played under D'Antoni! I believe he's averaging a little under 40 mpg under him right now, which is absolutely insane.
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Post#74 Re: Why does bryant attempt so many shots in
Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:30 pm by tsherkin

Respect My Mind wrote:An offense in which Kobe dominates the ball has a volume 3pt brickery identity? Gee I wonder why?


Mostly because of kick-outs and swings out of post-ups for Kobe and Dwight, as it happened.

Replace Kobe with Rondo or Wade and I guarantee you the offense as a whole does not have that same identity.


You're right, they'd be way worse with Rondo and with Wade, he doesn't have the stamina, the J or the health to float a team any longer.
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Post#75 Re: Why does bryant attempt so many shots in
Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:20 pm by KingCuban

Honestly, these Kobe threads are down right laughable at this point, given his numbers his year are at a career best, which is incredible given its his 17th NBA season.

His defense isn't great, but the whole team is horrible at this.

They just gave up 55 points to the Wizards up to half time. 55 points to the Wizards.

The front office has made some really questionable decisions of late, which has lead to far more problems in the make up of the team.

Kobe and his season to date, is not the reason why this team is losing.
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Post#76 Re: Why does bryant attempt so many shots in
Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:05 pm by va-mos

KingCuban wrote:Honestly, these Kobe threads are down right laughable at this point, given his numbers his year are at a career best, which is incredible given its his 17th NBA season.

His defense isn't great, but the whole team is horrible at this.

They just gave up 55 points to the Wizards up to half time. 55 points to the Wizards.

The front office has made some really questionable decisions of late, which has lead to far more problems in the make up of the team.

Kobe and his season to date, is not the reason why this team is losing.


The more you hold the ball in the D'Ant offense, the more the team suffers. Kobe is a holder. Doesn't matter what his shoot% is (.473% so far this season, including .446 in December and 9-29 in a 102-96 win over the lowly Wizards today), he is preventing the flow of the D'Ant offense. The only man you want dominating the ball is the man who distributes the ball. We'll have to wait and see if Kobe allows Nash to do the job or not. Most experts doubt it.
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Post#77 Re: Why does bryant attempt so many shots in
Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:45 pm by J-Mezzy

va-mos wrote:
KingCuban wrote:Honestly, these Kobe threads are down right laughable at this point, given his numbers his year are at a career best, which is incredible given its his 17th NBA season.

His defense isn't great, but the whole team is horrible at this.

They just gave up 55 points to the Wizards up to half time. 55 points to the Wizards.

The front office has made some really questionable decisions of late, which has lead to far more problems in the make up of the team.

Kobe and his season to date, is not the reason why this team is losing.


The more you hold the ball in the D'Ant offense, the more the team suffers. Kobe is a holder. Doesn't matter what his shoot% is (.473% so far this season, including .446 in December and 9-29 in a 102-96 win over the lowly Wizards today), he is preventing the flow of the D'Ant offense. The only man you want dominating the ball is the man who distributes the ball. We'll have to wait and see if Kobe allows Nash to do the job or not. Most experts doubt it.


I agree. I don't put all the blame on Kobe, but those saying his ball dominance doesn't affect the flow of the offense are either bias or naive. Having said that, the rest of the Lakers need to step up if they want a guy like Kobe to give up the ball
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Post#78 Re: Why does bryant attempt so many shots in
Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:31 pm by PurpleRooster

va-mos wrote:
KingCuban wrote:Honestly, these Kobe threads are down right laughable at this point, given his numbers his year are at a career best, which is incredible given its his 17th NBA season.


So he is putting up good volume scoring, on what is turning into diminishing efficiency?

OK great, but he hasn't as of yet helped facilitate a successful winning formula or team offense.

His defense is abysmal. Great....it is his 17th season, but do we all have to slobber over him playing in a way that many people don't care to classify as winning basketball?

As someone that learned to respect Bryant from 2008-2011...I am very dissapointed in how he is playing the game right now.

For the enthusiasts of the scoring title, and people who love to see players strive for that award...kudos, they should be happy.

(fully prepared to be called a hater.)
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Post#79 Re: Why does bryant attempt so many shots in
Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:36 pm by markjay

Respect My Mind wrote:
tsherkin wrote:
Respect My Mind wrote:What are you homers laughing about? I said what I said because you can make these scrubs serviceable if you MAKE PLAYS FOR THEM.


1) You're wrong.

Jamison was no better for Lebron; he blew chunks in the playoffs and was wretched on defense. Lebron is a noted playmaker and Twan was still a brick-layer.

2) You're looking to Jamison as an issue when he was merely one example among many I gave...

While blatantly ignoring that LA is the 8th-best offense in the league and scored 107 points in that game.

Offense is NOT the problem!

And if the players are that stupid that, in a game where they were PLENTY involved offensively, they STILL didn't hustle on D, then they are totally worthless contracts independent of what Kobe is or isn't doing.

Again, in the game being discussed, there was no issue with getting the peripheral players involved. Guys got tons of shots, but Kobe, Metta, Dwight and Ebanks carried the team's offense and the defense was ABOMINABLE. Let this register.

I said it before, but 41 points on 74% FG is APPALLINGLY bad and that's the result of New York ripping them apart from the word "go," not because of Kobe's play.


You can't judge an offense purely just on how many points are scored. The offense is LEADS to bad floor balance because Kobe doesn't shoot within any kind of sets, he arbitrarily decides to shoot no matter where he or his teammates are on the floor. None of his teammates know whether they should be crashing the boards, getting back on D to provide floor balance, spacing the floor on the shot or cutting to the basket. Thus you have players out of position and cross matched when there is a miss. The bad Kobe offense LEADS to transition opportunities for the other team. Kobe has come out himself and said Transition D is their Achilles heel.

Let the light shine down on you!


Actually, that is spectacularly false. A recent published analysis indicated that Kobe's missed shots resulted in offensive rebounds, and successful put backs, at one of the highest rates in the league -- which is one of the reasons he has such a high offensive rating. So you have it exactly opposite.
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Post#80 Re: Why does bryant attempt so many shots in
Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:39 pm by MistyMountain20

PurpleRooster wrote:
OK great, but he hasn't as of yet helped facilitate a successful winning formula or team offense.

His defense is abysmal. Great....it is his 17th season, but do we all have to slobber over him playing in a way that many people don't care to classify as winning basketball?

As someone that learned to respect Bryant from 2008-2011...I am very dissapointed in how he is playing the game right now.

2011? In your opinion he was a better facilitator and played a game that was conducive towards a winning formula? Not so sure how valid your opinion on the matter is when you say your disappointed in his game right now, but respect his 2011 season, which was worse by nearly every measure.
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