Kobe: Carmelo More Difficult To Defend Than LeBron

TheGarden · Post #101 » by **TheGarden** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:43 am

Everyone in the NBA calls Carmelo Anthony the best scorer in the NBA but on realgm no that means nothing, TS% is the end all be all

devv83 · Post #102 » by **devv83** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:46 am

osamu wrote:What does Kobe know about defense Melo is a great scorer but is impact on the whole game doesn't equate to Lebron's

Who said it did. No one said melo is better than LeBron or has the same impact .

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RatherUnique · Post #103 » by **RatherUnique** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:52 am

TheGarden wrote:Everyone in the NBA calls Carmelo Anthony the best scorer in the NBA but on realgm no that means nothing, TS% is the end all be all

And a lower PPG, in the regular season & playoffs, than Lebron.

So Lebron scores more points than him & makes more of his shots than Melo does.

Lebron is a more effective scorer.

D.Brasco · Post #104 » by **D.Brasco** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:54 am

TheGarden wrote:Everyone in the NBA calls Carmelo Anthony the best scorer in the NBA but on realgm no that means nothing, TS% is the end all be all

He's not though. Guys like MJ, bird, wilt, were all considered the best scorers in the league in their day because they scored more points than anyone else in the league on high efficiencies.

Carmelo has never lead the league in scoring. He's not this unstoppable scoring machine as someone who really was the best scorer in the league would be. In terms of better scorers in the league I'd put Durant and LeBron over him.

Also LeBron's superior passing skills play into his scoring abilities. Players are never sure when to back off of him due to the fact he's a great outlet passer. When melo is driving to the rim you know what he's gonna do so you can play him more closely than lebron.

smha201 · Post #105 » by **smha201** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:56 am

Melo is simply incredible... Jordan-esque stuff. The guy is from another planet.

MaliBrah · Post #106 » by **MaliBrah** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:07 am

StephNYKurry wrote:
diablerouge wrote:
StephNYKurry wrote:People don't understand. Lebron doesn't possess the skills that Melo does. Melo has a step back. Turn around. Off the dribble pull up. Turn around over both shoulders and can work in the post. The variety is what Melo has that LBJ doesn't.

Lebron has FINALLY decided to work on his game as of late, but most of his game is still blow by his man in half court, transition buckets, and as of late he's added the post up, but he's not like Melo on the block.

People talk about Lebron's "clutch gene" as to why they would choose others to get a bucket with the game on the line, but really it's because his scoring isn't as refined as others. There are still spots on the floor, and things you could push him to do that affect his efficiency.

Carmelo, Kobe, Dirk, and KD have a more refined skill set

That would be a compelling argument... If it were true. LeBron is a better mid range shooter and 3-point shooter than Carmelo and also scores more and with better efficiency from the post. What are those spots on the floor and things you can do to affect his efficiency, since theres a 10% difference between him and Melo?

Listen man, I'm not really into the whole "advance stat geek" stuff so those arguments are going to fall on deaf ears. If you force Lebron a little off the block, he's not as proficient. If you force Lebron to pull up off his right hand, and make him drive left, he's not as effective in my opinion.

I'm not railing against advanced stats, because I use them judiciously, but I know what my eyes tell me as well. So you can just go ahead argue that somewhere else.

except the fact that going left is one of lebrons fav moves

hokageinfamus · Post #107 » by **hokageinfamus** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:07 am

LeBron scores more because he is ball dominant and most of his scoring comes from unassisted shots, Melo is a catch and shoot volume scorer who's scoring is mostly assisted.

Playoffs numbers? Carmelo for most of his career with Denver was on teams where he'd get doubled and tripled and would to kick it out to Andre Miller? Greg Buckner? K-Mart? Bruce Bowen one of the GOAT perimeter defenders that helped hold LBJ to 25 ppg on 35% shooting but was torched by Melo said that Anthony was the hardest player for him to guard one on one. I'll go with what someone who played the game against said player than with some advanced metrics.

Lebron James's Cavs teams on paper weren't spectacular but when a team is tailor made to suit the teams best player the sky is the limit.

MaliBrah · Post #108 » by **MaliBrah** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:14 am

i'm so lost right now , is this argument melo vs lebron in scoring? because every fact goes lebron's way in that argument

or are we discussing the fact that kobe finds it harder for HIMSELF to guard melo then lebron?

RatherUnique · Post #109 » by **RatherUnique** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:21 am

hokageinfamus wrote:LeBron scores more because he is ball dominant and most of his scoring comes from unassisted shots, Melo is a catch and shoot volume scorer who's scoring is mostly assisted.

So what's the excuse for Carmelo having a lower TS%?

orangeparka · Post #110 » by **orangeparka** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:24 am

Wait... Lower PPG, FG%, 3pt%, and TS% (not just this season, but pretty muxh every season, not to disclude playoffs), and Melo's the better scorer?

I'm sorry, I'm not one to always put advanced stats first, but when EVERY single statistic points to one guy that's gotta mean something.

Best I can give him is that he has the nicest looking game.

And I'm a huge fan of his too.

hokageinfamus · Post #111 » by **hokageinfamus** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:32 am

So what's the excuse for Carmelo having a lower TS%?

shot selection, Lebron doesn't force shots, scores closer to the basket and reads defenses well because he has elite court vision. Melo is not as dynamic of a passer and tends to take tougher shots, he and Kobe for some reason love those shots that kill their efficiency

smha201 · Post #112 » by **smha201** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:38 am

22 points in the first quarter alone... just amazing. The best scorer in the NBA. Melo is just so dope.

RatherUnique · Post #113 » by **RatherUnique** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:45 am

hokageinfamus wrote:
So what's the excuse for Carmelo having a lower TS%?

shot selection, Lebron doesn't force shots, scores closer to the basket and reads defenses well because he has elite court vision. Melo is not as dynamic of a passer and tends to take tougher shots, he and Kobe for some reason love those shots that kill their efficiency

So when you factor in Melo's inferior efficiency & points per game, its clear that Bron is the more effective scorer.

rockmanslim · Post #114 » by **rockmanslim** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:48 am

diablerouge wrote:
rockmanslim wrote:I don't like either guy (Melo or Lebron), but Melo is harder to defend because he's a more natural scorer who is a threat to score from anywhere. Lebron is more of a slasher. Pack the paint on Lebron and D-Whistle and take your chances, something that won't work against someone like Melo.

lebron is better shooter from mid range and 3 than carmelo. other than that, your argument is very strong.

OptimusOne6 · Post #115 » by **OptimusOne6** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:57 am

Does it matter what Kobe thinks? He never guards either one because he always guards the worst offensive player.

Melo's offensive game is more aesthetic but Lebron's game is clearly more effective. There isn't a whole lot Melo does better except shooting FTs and 3s but why settle for jump shots when you can just go into the paint and get layups/dunks all day?

Post #116 » by **og15** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:57 am

hokageinfamus wrote:Serge Ibaka is a better mid range jump shooter than Lebron and Melo. This whole advanced statistic thing is becoming ridiculous, I understand stats are important but watch the games. Even Lebron would probably say Melo is a more versatile scorer

Really? That's not an advanced stat. That's the same as watching a few games, looking at who's making more shots from mid-range and determiinig who's a better shooter, except this is actually accurate because bias is removed. Maybe it needs to be cleared up as to what an advanced stat is, and what it isn't.

Also, you're comparing a guy who shoots mid-range jumpshots off pick and pop and drive an kicks to guys who create their shots. That's exactly why we watch games, so when we see those numbers, we can differentiate knowing that Serge is not a primary scorer, or you could just look at assisted% which doesn't tell you how he's assisted, but that he is assisted.

Wth that said, considering Ibaka is shooting 83.7% FT, and hitting his mid-range jumpshots at an even higher rate, maybe he is, or is developing into a better open mid-range shooter than both of them. Just because they are better players doesn't mean he can't do that better than them.

diablerouge wrote:
TheGarden wrote:So if Shaq shoots 65% and averages 35 ppg would he be the best scorer

best scorer is different from best offensive player

Melo is the best scorer in the NBA, period

this is where your analogy gets weakened: shaq shoots 65% on shots to the rim only. lebron takes the exact same shots that melo takes from the rim, from midrange and from 3. so the fg% actually tells us something.

Wait, why wouldn't Shaq be the best scorer of he was doing this? Seems like the common theme of confusing versatility with being better. A one trick pony who is really really really good at that one trick is better than the guy who can do many tricks but doesn't do them as effectively.

More versatile =/= better.

LGND2552 · Post #117 » by **LGND2552** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:05 am

You guys are ridiculous. Melo's better than Lebron?
Melo has more moves, a prettier game, and might win in a one on one matchup and everything. But at the end of the day? Lebron gets your more WINS. That's what matters.

Hakeem was more skilled and fun to watch and had more moves than Shaq. But 10 times out of 10 I would take Shaq over Hakeem. It's the same situation if you consider melo more talented. Sometimes size and strength are better than skill.

HurdyGurdyMan · Post #118 » by **HurdyGurdyMan** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:11 am

Maybe it should cross your mind that they've been in several NT together and played lots on 1vs1 in practice.
I really can't believe that there is someone so dumb to come up with STATS to judge an OPINION.

Hell, this is what internet does. Everybody knows everything behind a monitor.
Kobe has been in the league for years but no, he's wrong because advanced stats say so.

have you ever played one game of basketball?
I had a team mate once who had so many moves that you would get a headache trying to guard him.
Of course he was a shoot first player and his percentages were absolute CRAP.
Of course there were players with better efficency and even more points but if you asked me who was the toughest to guard I would have answered him.

And this has nothing to do with stats.
This what you perceive on the court.

I laugh at you Hollinger-wannabes.

HurdyGurdyMan · Post #119 » by **HurdyGurdyMan** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:14 am

LGND2552 wrote:You guys are ridiculous. Melo's better than Lebron?
Melo has more moves, a prettier game, and might win in a one on one matchup and everything. But at the end of the day? Lebron gets your more WINS. That's what matters.

Hakeem was more skilled and fun to watch and had more moves than Shaq. But 10 times out of 10 I would take Shaq over Hakeem. It's the same situation if you consider melo more talented. Sometimes size and strength are better than skill.

Nobody said that.

And Hakeem did beat the crap out of Shaq every time they faced.
"fun to watch". how old are you?
Hakeem was a winner.

rockmanslim · Post #120 » by **rockmanslim** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:40 am

LGND2552 wrote:You guys are ridiculous. Melo's better than Lebron?

nobody is saying that. at least i'm not.

LGND2552 wrote:Melo has more moves, a prettier game, and might win in a one on one matchup and everything.

I think that is exactly what Kobe means.

LGND2552 wrote:But at the end of the day? Lebron gets your more WINS. That's what matters.

nobody is disputing that.