JellosJigglin wrote:If Lebron had Kobe or even Carmelo's offensive repertoire, we'd be watching the GOAT. It would be like if Shaq had Tim Duncan's post game. Ridiculous.
Misconception.
If Lebron had Melo's game, he'd be drawing fewer fouls and taking a lot more weaker perimeter shots at lower efficiency, passing less and overall diminishing his effectiveness.
Shaq actually HAD a post game as good as Duncan's, which people gloss over because of his physical dominance. He had drop steps and spins, he had hook shots with either hand, he had fantastic post passing. The areas of offense where Duncan outshone Shaq had to do with his face-up jumper and free throw shooting, and they didn't make Duncan a comparable-value player on offense, let alone superior. People forget in all the talk of The Big Fundamental and what-not that he kept it simple. He didn't bust out a zillion moves, he just knew how to force the defense to commit to defending one move or the other and could go two moves deep. If you didn't give him the jump hook going into the lane, he was going baseline for a spin, an up-and-under or a hook. Or he'd pass to a cutter, or kick it back out to the entry man for post/re-post or release/reversal. Nothing there Shaq didn't do.
Sometimes, Duncan played face-up ball from the elbow, sure, and that's something Shaq never really did after leaving Orlando, but he didn't have to, so it was moot. He never really suffered for not having Duncan's range because half of his value was keeping a defender away from the perimeter to pay attention to him and deny the lob or the hi-lo for the dunk.
Could Lebron refine his offensive game a little? Absolutely, any player can improve. But on the basis of shot selection and exploiting competitive advantage alone, he's a far better example than either Melo or Kobe, especially for how he weaponizes the pass in a superior way to either of those players. More to the point, people still speak as if Lebron isn't comparable 3pt shooter to either of those guys, which is hilarious.
Career Numbers:
Kobe: 33.8%, 3.9/g
Melo: 33.1%, 2.6/g
Lebron: 33.3%, 4.0/g
Comparable volume, comparable efficiency. We saw him dominate the Bulls in 2011 with that shot, for example. He's no more or less consistent with it than those two but people forget that he has it in the face of his bewildering physical tools... although Melo has his own quickness and power that people are quick to forget when we discuss Lebron.
For years, people talked about Lebron's lack of a perimeter shot besides the 3, but he's shot under 40% from 16-23 feet only once (this year not included, but he's shooting 40% anyway) since the beginning of the 08-09 season. 40, 40, 45, 39 (and 40 again this year). He's doing just fine there.
Mid-range, people love to talk about it. 10-15 feet. Significant improvement since coming to Miami. 44.7%, 47.0% and 41.7% so far this season.
Kobe was better back in 2011, but not last year and not so far this season. Is it an area where Lebron could improve? Sure, but he's still USING the moves to get those shots. Melo's actually been comparable or worse to Lebron in that zone for 3+ years now, considerably worse in the first two of those 4 seasons.
Things people are quick to forget. We remember Lebron's gifts and we act as if he does nothing but bully people, but this is a lazy and inaccurate perception, most especially since he's come to Miami. He's been working on developing his offensive repertoire since he hit the league. It's taken time and it's been only recently that he's dedicated himself to playing more at the 4 and in the post, but it's happening right before our eyes. Ignoring it in favor of subjective bias is fool-hardy in the extreme.
Being "smooth" on the court is irrelevant. It looks nice, but it has no substantive value. I don't care if you look nice, I want to win and Lebron is a superior scorer compared to Melo and Kobe.
Durant, well, now you've got an argument. He's a very different type of player. Where Lebron facilitates his teammates with on-ball passing, Durant does so by taking himself off of the ball and letting them handle and get involved that way. He's kind of like the mega physical talent version of Reggie Miller. That's an oversimplification, but he scores at a highly efficient rate and on big volume (in fact, with three straight scoring titles, he's doing just fine in that regard). He mixes in a lot of different angles of attack that make him a phenomenal offensive threat, and a better scorer than Melo for sure.
People like Kobe. He's won a lot. He's a legitimately great player, but his fans like to believe he's the very best at everything, and that's just simply not true. He's not the best scorer in the league and has only ever debatably been that during his career. He's one of the best perimeter scorers in league history, no doubt, but after Shaq dropped off, he's been bumping into Wade, Lebron and Durant the entire time and it's not been clearly the case that he's been better. He's been in their league at times (though not so much recently, despite his shiny volume numbers), particularly from 05-09, and he's had an argument for himself in that same time frame, but it's not clear-cut. People are acting like this is definitively the case...
But here's the thing.
Back when Kobe was a truly dominant scoring force, he was doing exactly what pro-Kobe people here are moaning about, exploiting his physical tools. He was much faster then and, while he lacked the raw force that Melo and Lebron have (or the height that they and Durant all have), he had a good jumper (maniacally streaky because of his shot selection and the nature of the long 2s and 3s he loves) and a great handle. He could slash and shoot, post a bit even then, he was a complete player. But he still wasn't the best because at times, he over-shot his talent and had some SERIOUS issues with shot selection that are not separable from the rest of his body of work, skill set or physical tools.
Kobe's great, but just because he says something (that's not even directly what people are arguing, no less!) doesn't make him right. In this case, it's even a sideways comment, it's just an opinion on who was more difficult for him to guard... among players that he didn't see very often (and Lebron, he saw half as frequently). Once Artest got to the team, and especially since LBJ has been playing at the 4 a lot, Kobe almost never sees either Melo or Lebron on D any more, so his opinion is based mostly on older data that ignores the developments in their respective games (and the fact that LBJ pretty consistently does well against the Lakers).
You might be referring to Melo with that one.
