Kobe: Carmelo More Difficult To Defend Than LeBron

[JellosJigglin]

Kobe's been saying this for years. He's the only one that saw through all that BS that Melo was getting in NY and even Denver.

[og15]

!
Because of their pure abilities, i see them as better scorers.

Which is non-sensical.

You're saying that in a mythical world where their personalities totally different, that maybe they could perform at a different level, but that's strange because their personalities dictate their approach. Maybe if they were different, they wouldn't shoot as much or be as dominant, who knows?

In terms of reality, the on-court truth is that Melo (in any given year, even this one) is not the best scorer in the league.

Do not agree at all!
Better system, coach, Take the ball to the whole more, not let them fall in love with their jumpers as much.
Maybe their points would be down by a couple, but efficiency would be way up.
Look at Karl he got Melo to get his efficiency up and his shot selection still wasnt good.

Anyone has a statistic where it is displayed how many points players average on transition plays and in half court set?

There are stats for when in the shot clock players score on 82games. Eg: Lebron after 17 games had 39% of his attempts in the first 10 seconds of clock usage, Carmelo after 17 games was at 36%.

Look at you guys having such a pointless, meaningless argument. As a Knicks fan and a fan of Melo, I take what Kobe (one of the best scorers and best players of all time) said about Melo as a huge compliment and a testament to the type of player Melo has always been. Surely a testament to the great season he's having thus far. Could care less if some dweebs on a message board think he's not "the best scorer", so long as the Knicks continue to be the best team in the east. Seeyalatergoodbye.

i thnk the issue isn't anyone arguing with Kobe's opinion, but people arguing against those so are using the opinion to say "you see, Carmelo is a better scorer than LBJ, told you!"

[diablerouge]

also, are we going to completely disregard that melo is the only dude kobe was hanging out with in beijing and london?

it's like bron with cp3: they're so tight that their wives hang out wich eachother. and lebron says at every opportunity that cp3 is the best point guard by far. it may still be true now but he'll keep saying it until they retire.

i don't care about who kobe personally thinks is harder for him to defend but to use that as a basis of an argumentation stating that melo is the best scorer in the L? whoa, there.

[King John]

Is this really news? I'd take Mello and Durant's offensive game over Lebron's easily right now. Lebron still relies highly on his superior athleticism as apposed to being as skilled as Mello or Durant is.

[moocow007]

Is this really news? I'd take Mello and Durant's offensive game over Lebron's easily right now. Lebron still relies highly on his superior athleticism as apposed to being as skilled as Mello or Durant is.

Yeah agreed.

[tsherkin]

Is this really news? I'd take Mello and Durant's offensive game over Lebron's easily right now. Lebron still relies highly on his superior athleticism as apposed to being as skilled as Mello or Durant is.

Yeah agreed.

What?

I'd take Lebron's offensive game over Melo's any day of the week, there's no comparison. Durant, that's at least debatable but given that Melo isn't more efficient and is a way less effective playmaker, I'm not seeing that one at all.

Unless you mean just from a purely aesthetic standpoint.

[diablerouge]

Is this really news? I'd take Mello and Durant's offensive game over Lebron's easily right now. Lebron still relies highly on his superior athleticism as apposed to being as skilled as Mello or Durant is.

who's mello?

but humor me, what are those skills that melo has that lebron doesn't possess? being smooth? making it look easy?

[moocow007]

Is this really news? I'd take Mello and Durant's offensive game over Lebron's easily right now. Lebron still relies highly on his superior athleticism as apposed to being as skilled as Mello or Durant is.

who's mello?

but humor me, what are those skills that melo has that lebron doesn't possess? being smooth? making it look easy?

So what you are saying is that he can't have an opinion (just like Kobe can't have one) if it's not the one you believe in? Why are you getting so angry about it?

[diablerouge]

Is this really news? I'd take Mello and Durant's offensive game over Lebron's easily right now. Lebron still relies highly on his superior athleticism as apposed to being as skilled as Mello or Durant is.

who's mello?

but humor me, what are those skills that melo has that lebron doesn't possess? being smooth? making it look easy?

So what you are saying is that he can't have an opinion (just like Kobe can't have one) if it's not the one you believe in? Why are you getting so angry about it?

i'm asking him to provide arguments to support his opinion. of course he can have an opinion, and so can kobe. i can also not agree with either or both. i'd say sarcasm, surely, but where did you see anger?

[moocow007]

Is this really news? I'd take Mello and Durant's offensive game over Lebron's easily right now. Lebron still relies highly on his superior athleticism as apposed to being as skilled as Mello or Durant is.

Yeah agreed.

What?

I'd take Lebron's offensive game over Melo's any day of the week, there's no comparison. Durant, that's at least debatable but given that Melo isn't more efficient and is a way less effective playmaker, I'm not seeing that one at all.

Unless you mean just from a purely aesthetic standpoint.

No I'm basing it on having watched both guys play since they first came into the league up until today. Not with the help of any advanced stats...just simply watching them play. Anthony's lack of physical ability (compared to James) has forced him to be a more natural scorer IMHO than James. IF Anthony had James athletic ability IMHO he'd be on another plane altogether. And since I'm sure I'll be asked, natural means I think he's better at knowing when to drive and when to pull back in the paint, he's more instinctive shooting the ball, he has better form on his shots, and he (like Kobe says) is a harder guy to defend offensively in situations where he's not in a 3-on-2 or 2-on-1 situation where athleticism and physical prowess gives him an advantage to be able to physiclaly overwhelm defenders. Hard to guard I consider scenario's where the opposing defenses are set and ready for the guy with the ball. If we are instead talking about who can put the most points up on the board each night then sure I'd probably go with Lebron. Not the same thing.

[tsherkin]

How do you account for the massive advantage Lebron displays at involving his teammates and the yawning chasm between the two in terms of playoff performance, then? And the more recent evolutions in Lebron's game?

[moocow007]

How do you account for the massive advantage Lebron displays at involving his teammates and the yawning chasm between the two in terms of playoff performance, then? And the more recent evolutions in Lebron's game?

Lebron is the better passer and he makes his teammates better. He's also clearly the better player in transition and being able to use his physical tools to it's max. That still doesn't mean he's the harder guy to defend based on why my view of what criteria is being used. IMO that's the same criteria that Bryant is using (i.e. not the, hey Lebron just blew by us for a dunk, but rather, ok we're ready for Anthony but damn it doesn't matter cause he'll still get his). Anthony does not get the same type of easy scoring opportunities that Lebron James does. There is no arguing about that. And beacuse Lebron can get himself easier scoring opportunities actually works against him when we're talking about who exactly is the harder guy to guard defensively. Again, it's not a knock on James. I'd still prefer him over Anthony. But the question isn't about who can put up the most points, it's about who's the harder person to guard (presumably one-on-one since that sounds like the scenarios Bryant gives and has given in the past) when all's equal and you're ready for him. From that standpoint I think both Anthony and Durant has the advantage over James. If James had the same offensive (read scoring, not scoring/passing/offensive-rebounding/etc) skills that Durant and Anthony has then IMHO he'd be putting up 30+ average easily cause physically he's more dominant and has better ball skills than either Durant or (especially) Anthony.

[hokageinfamus]

How do you account for the massive advantage Lebron displays at involving his teammates and the yawning chasm between the two in terms of playoff performance, then? And the more recent evolutions in Lebron's game?

Lebron is a superior play maker, passer, and athlete that's always been known, but most importantly his teams have always been built around him. This is the first time Melo has a team that fits around his abilities

Melo is involving teammates and could be averaging 4-5 assists a game, but a lot of his assists have been hockey assists this year. Lebron's post game is still average. Carmelo and Kobe still have more versatile back to the basket games.

Teams still dare Lebron to shoot 20 foot jumpers. He's improved greatly at mid-range shooting but teams still will let him take that shot. The same can't be said for Melo or Durant

Playoff Performance - LeBron has faced weaker teams, you realize that Melo in the first round has lost to teams that went on to win the finals rights?

[og15]

Is it playoff performance in terms of how far they have gone or how well and efficiently they have scored that is being takes about? I think it's the later, so if any question would be asked, it would be more about who was playing tougher defenses than how far each guy was going.

[EscapoTHB]

How do you account for the massive advantage Lebron displays at involving his teammates and the yawning chasm between the two in terms of playoff performance, then? And the more recent evolutions in Lebron's game?

Teams still dare Lebron to shoot 20 foot jumpers. He's improved greatly at mid-range shooting but teams still will let him take that shot. The same can't be said for Melo or Durant

They let him take the shot because they cant get up on him. He still makes the shot though. At a higher percentage than melo.

Lebron doesn't get enough credit for his shooting. He is better than both melo and Kobe with his j. But people act like he cant shoot. His midrange is automatic. And his 3 point shooting is also good for someone who is usually taking contested 3s.

Lebron is better than melo st everything but maybe free throws.
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[og15]

How do you account for the massive advantage Lebron displays at involving his teammates and the yawning chasm between the two in terms of playoff performance, then? And the more recent evolutions in Lebron's game?

Teams still dare Lebron to shoot 20 foot jumpers. He's improved greatly at mid-range shooting but teams still will let him take that shot. The same can't be said for Melo or Durant

They let him take the shot because they cant get up on him. He still makes the shot though. At a higher percentage than melo.

Lebron doesn't get enough credit for his shooting. He is better than both melo and Kobe with his j. But people act like he cant shoot. His midrange is automatic. And his 3 point shooting is also good for someone who is usually taking contested 3s.

Lebron is better than melo st everything but maybe free throws.
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You still have to admit that when you watch them, Carmelo looks like a better scorer, it's prettier to see most of the time.

[MikeLowrey]

If it were a one on one game maybe, MAYBE, melo but its a team game and lebron would be the tougher guard

Well all Kobe knows is one on one game

[diablerouge]

If James had the same offensive (read scoring, not scoring/passing/offensive-rebounding/etc) skills that Durant and Anthony has then IMHO he'd be putting up 30+ average easily cause physically he's more dominant and has better ball skills than either Durant or (especially) Anthony.

but he has put up 30+. he scored 31.5 ppg in his THIRD YEAR, something that neither carmelo or kd have yet to do (melo, in fact, has never reached 30). he also has the most 50-point games in the nba outside of kobe.

lebron's game is much more refined now and he doesn't look to get the most points just for the sake of scoring, he talks in interviews about offensive and defensive efficiency. 54% shooting for someone that takes that many jumpers is insane. with the way his game has improved since his early cleveland days, he could get 34-35 ppg on 45% shooting right now. but miami wouldn't be as good of a team.

i think the reason why people feel melo is more of a scorer is because whenever he wants to score, he isolates himself on the wing and essentially makes it a game of 1vs1 with help defenders - it's magnified. but that's also terrible basketball. that's what lebron used to do in cleveland with mike brown giving him all the 1-4 lows to pound the rock and beat his man.

[diablerouge]

You still have to admit that when you watch them, Carmelo looks like a better scorer, it's prettier to see most of the time.

voilà. /thread

[rockmanslim]

How do you account for the massive advantage Lebron displays at involving his teammates and the yawning chasm between the two in terms of playoff performance, then? And the more recent evolutions in Lebron's game?

Teams still dare Lebron to shoot 20 foot jumpers. He's improved greatly at mid-range shooting but teams still will let him take that shot. The same can't be said for Melo or Durant

They let him take the shot because they cant get up on him. He still makes the shot though. At a higher percentage than melo.

Link?

Here's what I have:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1219861&start=105#p33977978

Where are you getting the stats that say Lebron shoots 20 footers at a higher percentage than Melo? I'm not infallible, so maybe I'm wrong.