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Kobe: Carmelo More Difficult To Defend Than LeBron

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Post#181 Re: Kobe: Carmelo More Difficult To Defend Th
Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:40 am by KingCuban

bbms wrote:No, Kobe's 17th is not at Durant level of efficiency. Kobe's TS is at 61%, Durant is at 64%. Kobe's eFG is at 53%, Durant is at 55%. Not an ocean between them, but that's a clear gap. Also Durant has consistency on Kobe. You almost never see Durant going 5/15, or 8/22, or this kind of games. Then you account turnovers...

Also, you say like it's any demerit from Durant if he were on Kobe's 17th season level on efficiency. This is the best shooting season Kobe Bryant ever had until now.

I agree with you. Kobe's more identified with Melo than with LeBron or Durant, so he'll always have an opinion towards melo. But I don't agree. Melo has a nice array of movements on the half court. A better polished isolation game, post moves, go-to moves, but his shot selection and ball-stopping traits in his carreer couldn't translate that into being a more efficient player than LeBron and Durant, so I find this meaningless in comparison against LeBron and Durant. Both are better scorers now and Kobe is probably better too.


Durant had a .61 TS% last season, the same that Kobe is on this season, so yes, it is at Durant levels.

I raised the 17th NBA season because its astounding that:

1. Someone has been able to produce at this level after so many years in the league
2. Is having his best offensive season in terms of efficiency this late in his career.

Who is comparing Melo and Durant to Carmelo?

Kobe certainly wasn't. He was just giving his opinion on who he feels is a tougher stop, yet some will read into this that its a planned shot at Durant, Wade, Lebron, Rose etc and not a guy sticking up for a friend, who was on record the previous day stating that the media have been horrible to Melo last year and now they are lauding him.

It was a positive PR stunt for a friend, not a shot or a comparison.
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Post#182 Re: Kobe: Carmelo More Difficult To Defend Th
Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:50 am by bbms

'Melo is the best scorer in the league, period."
That Garden guy.

"[...] More [...] than [...]"
Kobe Bryant.

I think Kobe takes shots against NBA players. Remember that ridiculous stuff like the "batman" mask he wore? The all-star game when he criticized LeBron on court? What was worth the all-star game? Yeah, I think every opportunity Kobe has to put himself above LeBron, he uses it. He seeks it. His ego is just as big as his work rate. Who do ou think Kobe feels more identified with? Melo or LeBron?

He praises Melo, but from the moment he compares him with LeBron, he's trying to make a statement towards LeBron. A statement tha imo, is not true. Carmelo will always be the craftier and smoother player, but he's not more difficult to guard than LeBron, since he doesn't translate that in efficiency comparable to LeBron or Durant.
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Post#183 Re: Kobe: Carmelo More Difficult To Defend Th
Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:50 am by devv83

EscapoTHB wrote:
kblo247 wrote:I wouldn't just classify Melo as a friend, Kobe refers to him as one of his three brothers outside Fisher and Odom. He has more respect for Melo than most in the league because Melo earned it and as he said years ago when he was being criticized, he saw a good bit of himself in him. It doesn't hurt that Melo has a scorer mentality first like himself either.

I down think there's anyone saying Melo is better than Bron, I'm not as an overall player. I'm saying Melo sis the more relentless scorer, which has got him and Kobe at times labeled as checkers. Melo will keep coming at you even if he's 0-20 because he expects the next one to fall. Bron for long stretches of his career would be afraid to shoot late or hesitate on free throws after missing for stretches, and that limits him because he effectively defends himself.


I'm sure if you asked him who the best player in the league was after himself of course he'd list at least 3 guys ahead of lebron or durant. Kobe knows who his real competition is. He wouldn't talk up melo if he actually respected him.

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So kobe been saying melo is a good player and he is the toughest cover for years but he doesnt respect melo? What is wrong with some of you guys. Smh

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Post#184 Re: Kobe: Carmelo More Difficult To Defend Th
Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:03 am by starquest52

melo is one tough guard, i dont blame kobe for stating so


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Post#185 Re: Kobe: Carmelo More Difficult To Defend Th
Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:17 am by TheKingOfVa360

King John wrote:Is this really news? I'd take Mello and Durant's offensive game over Lebron's easily right now. Lebron still relies highly on his superior athleticism as apposed to being as skilled as Mello or Durant is.


I agree, Melo and Durant have the best offensive skills in the NBA. Kobe does also. Bron plays ugly basketball, not smooth at all
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Post#186 Re: Kobe: Carmelo More Difficult To Defend Th
Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:37 am by SunKing

Ok now I didn't post in that thread but this has gone too far. You need to stop with that "oh lulz LeBron is all athleticism" or "LeBron isn't skilled isn't smooth".

Okay maybe Kobe and Melo looking better while taking contested long 2's but LeBron is an amazing player and very skilled. People act like you can be a perenial 30ppg season and postseason scorer with 40+ pts scored during elimination game while being just a big bull. Stop it.

Just a random game during last season POs, not even one where he went HAM :



Even those mighty bully penetration where LeBron is supposed to be Hulk or whatever and just push everybody around... Oh my god what did I just saw : hotsteps, euro steps, floatter.

Oh and BTW, he's scoring a lay-up by driving left on his left (like someone say this is his weakness :lol: )
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Post#187 Re: Kobe: Carmelo More Difficult To Defend Th
Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:08 am by StephNYKurry

SunKing wrote:Ok now I didn't post in that thread but this has gone too far. You need to stop with that "oh lulz LeBron is all athleticism" or "LeBron isn't skilled isn't smooth".

Okay maybe Kobe and Melo looking better while taking contested long 2's but LeBron is an amazing player and very skilled. People act like you can be a perenial 30ppg season and postseason scorer with 40+ pts scored during elimination game while being just a big bull. Stop it.

Just a random game during last season POs, not even one where he went HAM :



Even those mighty bully penetration where LeBron is supposed to be Hulk or whatever and just push everybody around... Oh my god what did I just saw : hotsteps, euro steps, floatter.

Oh and BTW, he's scoring a lay-up by driving left on his left (like someone say this is his weakness :lol: )


You do know that on said straight line drive, that he didn't use a left hand dribble or finish with his left hand right?
god shammgod wrote:he does have more talent. jr is an enigma. he has all-star talent and world-star intelligence.
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Post#188 Re: Kobe: Carmelo More Difficult To Defend Th
Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:33 am by StephNYKurry

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1219861&start=105#p33977978

Regardless of those statistics, basketball is a bit of an art form. This isn't chess or baseball or a series of algorithms. This is a game of skills that are crafted over a very long period time. I think someone hit it on the head about Kobe's respect for Melo. Melo's game shows that he has worked extremely hard on developing his skill set. Lebron just recently became a reliable jump shooter. All of those metrics above highlight Carmelo's midrange game being superior to Lebron's. For 8 years, Lebron just used his god given abilities to play the same game that he was playing in high school. He didn't add anything. Didn't get noticeably better in any areas either. He just got bigger and harder to keep from the rim. I'm sure some of what Kobe is saying is born from that lack of improvement. Carmelo has a better tool box as a scorer.

It's not criminal to say that and still be able to recognize Lebron as far and away the best player in the game.
god shammgod wrote:he does have more talent. jr is an enigma. he has all-star talent and world-star intelligence.
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Post#189 Re: Kobe: Carmelo More Difficult To Defend Th
Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:00 pm by Tien

TheKingOfVa360 wrote:
King John wrote:Is this really news? I'd take Mello and Durant's offensive game over Lebron's easily right now. Lebron still relies highly on his superior athleticism as apposed to being as skilled as Mello or Durant is.


I agree, Melo and Durant have the best offensive skills in the NBA. Kobe does also. Bron plays ugly basketball, not smooth at all


No they don't.

LeBron has the best offensive skills in the NBA. There's a thing called passing that puts him head over shoulders above everyone else.
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Post#190 Re: Kobe: Carmelo More Difficult To Defend Th
Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:05 pm by Tien

SunKing wrote:Ok now I didn't post in that thread but this has gone too far. You need to stop with that "oh lulz LeBron is all athleticism" or "LeBron isn't skilled isn't smooth".


Well you do need a few Skip Bayless acolytes to throw garbage around when they don't know anything about basketball. Makes for interesting drama.
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Post#191 Re: Kobe: Carmelo More Difficult To Defend Th
Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:14 pm by tsherkin

StephNYKurry wrote: Carmelo has a better tool box as a scorer.


This is immaterial. We've known since SVSM and Syracuse that Melo has a nice J. Lebron developed his 3pt and perimeter 2pt shooting, has added to his post game...

In any case, Melo's broader array of moves hasn't translated into comparable volume or efficiency and, aesthetics aside, there are no points added to your team's total for pretty play. Lebron is a better scorer, regardless of how much superior his physical talent is to Melo's. That's not actually relevant.
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Post#192 Re: Kobe: Carmelo More Difficult To Defend Th
Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:16 pm by Hyaena

It's LeBron's scoring efficiency (particularly after his first few years in the league) and consistently improving shot selection that have kicked him over the top in my opinion. I mean the guy is shooting 54% from the field and 44% from long range. His scoring arsenal and variety of moves may not look as pretty as some of the other leading scorers, but he gets it done and he does it at a very effective rate. You don't do that without real offensive skill. Athleticism only takes you so far.
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Post#193 Re: Kobe: Carmelo More Difficult To Defend Th
Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:58 pm by StephNYKurry

tsherkin wrote:
StephNYKurry wrote: Carmelo has a better tool box as a scorer.


This is immaterial. We've known since SVSM and Syracuse that Melo has a nice J. Lebron developed his 3pt and perimeter 2pt shooting, has added to his post game...

In any case, Melo's broader array of moves hasn't translated into comparable volume or efficiency and, aesthetics aside, there are no points added to your team's total for pretty play. Lebron is a better scorer, regardless of how much superior his physical talent is to Melo's. That's not actually relevant.


It's immaterial to you, but not me and apparently not Kobe. Efficiency at scoring the basketball says nothing of your proficiency at scoring the basketball. Shaq is more efficient than Tim Duncan, does Shaq therefore have better post skills? There are tons of other examples that bare this out as well.

If you are going to teach a young basketball player how to score the basketball, who would you have teach him, Lebron or Kobe/Carmelo?
god shammgod wrote:he does have more talent. jr is an enigma. he has all-star talent and world-star intelligence.
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Post#194 Re: Kobe: Carmelo More Difficult To Defend Th
Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:03 pm by GOODKIDmAAdCITY

bbms wrote:'Melo is the best scorer in the league, period."
That Garden guy.

"[...] More [...] than [...]"
Kobe Bryant.

I think Kobe takes shots against NBA players. Remember that ridiculous stuff like the "batman" mask he wore? The all-star game when he criticized LeBron on court? What was worth the all-star game? Yeah, I think every opportunity Kobe has to put himself above LeBron, he uses it. He seeks it. His ego is just as big as his work rate. Who do ou think Kobe feels more identified with? Melo or LeBron?

He praises Melo, but from the moment he compares him with LeBron, he's trying to make a statement towards LeBron. A statement tha imo, is not true. Carmelo will always be the craftier and smoother player, but he's not more difficult to guard than LeBron, since he doesn't translate that in efficiency comparable to LeBron or Durant.

you seriously dont believe this bs you type right?

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Post#195 Re: Kobe: Carmelo More Difficult To Defend Th
Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:29 pm by JellosJigglin

StephNYKurry wrote:http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1219861&start=105#p33977978

Regardless of those statistics, basketball is a bit of an art form. This isn't chess or baseball or a series of algorithms. This is a game of skills that are crafted over a very long period time. I think someone hit it on the head about Kobe's respect for Melo. Melo's game shows that he has worked extremely hard on developing his skill set. Lebron just recently became a reliable jump shooter. All of those metrics above highlight Carmelo's midrange game being superior to Lebron's. For 8 years, Lebron just used his god given abilities to play the same game that he was playing in high school. He didn't add anything. Didn't get noticeably better in any areas either. He just got bigger and harder to keep from the rim. I'm sure some of what Kobe is saying is born from that lack of improvement. Carmelo has a better tool box as a scorer.

It's not criminal to say that and still be able to recognize Lebron as far and away the best player in the game.


Truth.

Kobe likes to think of basketball like a chess match. If you take away his strong hand, he'll use his off-hand. If you take away the dribble drive, he'll set you up with a pull-up jumper on one possession, then pump-fake you to hell on the next possession and drive by you or draw a foul. He's always thinking of ways to keep his defender off balance because he has the skillset to do that from possession to possession. Carmelo is the same way.

With Lebron you know what he's going to throw at you offensively, but it's still difficult to stop because he's a stronger athlete. His skills as a scorer may be more dominant, but it's not nearly as versatile as Carmelo's. It doesn't mean anything with regards to who the better player is. I don't see what all the fuss is about.
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Post#196 Re: Kobe: Carmelo More Difficult To Defend Th
Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:38 pm by Joao Saraiva

Kobe can say whatever he wants, but in the end of the day LeBron is the best player in the league and is the toughest oponent you can get. He's strong, has great handling and a court vision like no other. He's just that good.
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Post#197 Re: Kobe: Carmelo More Difficult To Defend Th
Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:59 pm by nbhadja

Lebron is easily a better scorer than Melo. He scores more PPG and has a better FG% and is more efficient. There is no comparison.
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Post#198 Re: Kobe: Carmelo More Difficult To Defend Th
Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:03 pm by JellosJigglin

nbhadja wrote:Lebron is easily a better scorer than Melo. He scores more PPG and has a better FG% and is more efficient. There is no comparison.


Has nothing to do with what Kobe said. Lebron is like the Shaq of perimeter players. You know what's coming and you still can't stop it. Carmelo may not be as dominant but he's more versatile, so as a defender you aren't so sure what he's going to throw at you.
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Post#199 Re: Kobe: Carmelo More Difficult To Defend Th
Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:12 pm by BayAreaBully

Kobe and Melo both love to look pretty when they play and love to hit tough shots to impress. Give me the guy that scores easier and more efficient any day of the week. And that doesnt even consider passing ability. Idk how this is even an argument but of course Kobe's gonna be an advocate of a chucker like himself.


Anyways continue to ride the Melo hype train until the playoffs when the L train runs him off the tracks
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Post#200 Re: Kobe: Carmelo More Difficult To Defend Th
Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:20 pm by BayAreaBully

JellosJigglin wrote:
nbhadja wrote:Lebron is easily a better scorer than Melo. He scores more PPG and has a better FG% and is more efficient. There is no comparison.


Has nothing to do with what Kobe said. Lebron is like the Shaq of perimeter players. You know what's coming and you still can't stop it. Carmelo may not be as dominant but he's more versatile, so as a defender you aren't so sure what he's going to throw at you.


What difference does it make if they know its coming or not? If anything that makes a stronger case for LeBron. If what you're saying is true (that all he does is bumrsh the basket) and they cant stop it than that means he always gets the shot he wants. Scoring is about putting the all in the basket. Melo might have the "prettiest" offensive game in the league but that hasn't and wont get him a ring.
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