yardbarker

Race to the MVP pt. III

Moderators: Morten Jensen, Blame Rasho, tsherkin, NO-KG-AI, Doctor MJ, UGA Hayes, Basti, KingCuban, Flash3, Yuri Vaultin, magnumt

Post#441 Re: Race to the MVP pt. III
Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:54 am by imchillin

fallacy wrote:This is only Durant's 4th game of shooting 30 field goals, Lebron had 22 when he was 24, Kobe had 27, Jordan had 36 (In only 3 seasons)


I wish Durant would shoot more.. :(


he has a great team, why? smh you swear hes playing with the cavs the way you hype it up smh
imchillin
Banned User
Posts: 1,974
And1: 28
Joined: May 1, 2012
Top

Post#442 Re: Race to the MVP pt. III
Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:55 am by Doctor MJ

fallacy wrote:This is only Durant's 4th game of shooting 30 field goals, Lebron had 22 when he was 24, Kobe had 27, Jordan had 36 (In only 3 seasons)

I wish Durant would shoot more.. :(


It would be very interesting to see how Durant would have developed either without Westbrook, or with a Westbrook who wasn't used as a dominant point guard.
In 2007
The rule is the rule. It's not a matter of fairness. It's a matter of correctness.

In 2014
People just misunderstand...You’ve got to use some common sense, too.

I,for one, welcome our new insect overlords.
Doctor MJ



Senior Mod
Senior Mod
Posts: 31,644
And1: 1,986
Joined: Mar 10, 2005
Location: Treys are for Kicks!
Top

Post#443 Re: Race to the MVP pt. III
Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:39 am by NaturalThunder

Doctor MJ wrote:It would be very interesting to see how Durant would have developed either without Westbrook, or with a Westbrook who wasn't used as a dominant point guard.

I agree. He sorta had the team and scoring load to himself as a rookie and his second season. Even year two is a stretch because Jeff Green and Westbrook both averaged around 15 PPG. By year three Westbrook had emerged as a 20 PPG scorer. As a Thunder fan I'm glad things have developed and worked out this way. However, I'd be lying if I said a part of me didn't wish Durant had gotten to play with similar casts to what Jordan and LeBron had their first 5+ years in the league. 2012 and 2013 Durant, with a ridiculously unfair scoring arsenal, would put up some monster scoring numbers on a team like that. I mean is it too far of stretch to say he'd average 32-35 PPG? Because I think right now, if he was put in the right situation, he would flirt with 35 PPG. Maybe not average that many per game, but somewhere in the 32-33 range. I don't now, maybe that's too much. I'm just speculating.
GetItDone wrote:Durant continues to be the most overrated player in basketball.
Once again disappears in the 4th. On paper it looks like he played good, but he wasn't anything great. When defenses get tighter Durant gets exposed. He can't do much besides shoot jumpers.
NaturalThunder



Starter
User avatar
Posts: 2,065
And1: 265
Joined: Jun 13, 2012
Top

Post#444 Re: Race to the MVP pt. III
Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:31 am by TwentyOne920

datstockton wrote:
PurpleRooster wrote:While OKC has a better record than Miami, I still have James and Durant neck and neck if not James slightly ahead.

I only say this because if you watch the Heat James literally does EVERYTHING for that team. He is the leading scorer, rebounder, play maker, their best defender.

Bosh and Wade consistently can afford off nights, but James absolutely cannot. He is the through line and the constant.

The dude is the best player in the world, and the very definition of most valuable as well.

Nobody does more for their team than James right now.


Thank you. Someone gets it.

The only way Durant wins this year is if his team finishes with a far better record than the Heat, or the media gets voter fatigue with LeBron.

That DOES NOT mean he is the most valuable player in the league (IMO). That has been LeBron for about 5-6 consecutive years.


As much as I like LeBron it will be his fourth award in five years. MJ didn't win it at that rate, and if there's something the media dislikes it's to implicitly deny that anyone can surpass him as the GOAT.

Of course, MJ did just surpass Magic/Bird, who in turn took over after Kareem...
bertrob wrote:Any casual fan saying anything about Tim Duncan is usually wrong


bobly wrote:Kobe locked up his All Defensive Team this year after he blocked Lebron in the all-star game.
TwentyOne920
Lead Assistant
User avatar
Posts: 5,679
And1: 128
Joined: Jun 29, 2012
Top

Post#445 Re: Race to the MVP pt. III
Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:13 am by branny

spearsy23 wrote:I feel bad for Shawn marion

Need revenge sooner or later..
NaturalThunder wrote:OKC killing Serge's MVP candidacy...2-0 without Ibaka on the season.
branny
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,810
And1: 27
Joined: Jun 1, 2012
Top

Post#446 Re: Race to the MVP pt. III
Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:16 am by ShowTimeERA

1. Durant


2. Paul/Lebron


Everyone else is irrelevant
Image
ShowTimeERA

Assistant Coach
User avatar
Posts: 3,766
And1: 178
Joined: Feb 15, 2012
Top

Post#447 Re: Race to the MVP pt. III
Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:29 am by shmeakone

1. Durant



2. LeBron
3. Paul

4. Melo
Image
#KnicksTape

We blow ... for now ..
shmeakone
Assistant Coach
User avatar
Posts: 4,289
And1: 753
Joined: Mar 26, 2012
Top

Post#448 Re: Race to the MVP pt. III
Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:31 am by jayjamesson

21FT's won't cut it. It's Lebron's to lose.
jayjamesson
Junior
Posts: 295
And1: 4
Joined: May 25, 2012
Top

Post#449 Re: Race to the MVP pt. III
Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:31 am by kamelion4291

13-31 and only 1 assist in 50 minutes. LeBron just got done with a 17-25 game for comparison. I'll never understand why Durant continues to get every single foul call. For all the hype about Durant's TS%, he's still less effective than LeBron at actually making shots. His TS% is bumped up a good chunk because of all the free throws he gets. He takes less shots at the rim compared to LeBron but shoots 50% more free throws.

I don't get it.
kamelion4291
Banned User
Posts: 1,302
And1: 58
Joined: Dec 21, 2011
Top

Post#450 Re: Race to the MVP pt. III
Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:46 am by KDgoat

It's still between Lebron and Durant without much separating the 2.

Honestly, KD got a ton of questionable fouls called against Dallas. Meanwhile, I watched the Heat-Lakers game again, and Lebron was pounding it inside, going hard to the rim on numerous occasions and got fouled 4 times.

You can't simply look at the point total and go "O wow, Durant suddenly took 4 strides forward while Lebron took 1 backward". I care more about efficiency, and while KD went a crazy 21-21 from the line, he was only 13-31 from the field. I was honestly more impressed by Lebron his game against the Lakers, than KD against the Mavericks. It's hard to admit (well, not really), but that's how I see things.
I'd also like to see KD handle the ball better. Even though it's not his primary role, on a team like ours you have to net more than 1 assist in 50 minutes of play (and 4 TOs, compared to Lebron his 8/2 in 42).

KD his 0.42 free throws per minute against Dallas, compared to Lebron his 0.09 against a team like LA is almost too ridiculous. Especially considering the playstyle of both players.
KDgoat
Senior
User avatar
Posts: 509
And1: 19
Joined: Jun 7, 2012
Top

Post#451 Re: Race to the MVP pt. III
Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:57 am by NaturalThunder

And this is what I figured was going to start happening after Durant dropped 52 last night. People are using that as the standard or measuring stick for him and comparing it to LeBron's game against the Lakers. Nevermind that Durant's probably had 10 games this season alone better than last night's game. I mean it was just a week ago he put up 42-8-5 against the Lakers, and had his 40 midway through the third quarter on ridicuous efficiency. People were already going crazy over LeBron's game two nights ago in LA, but now they're using Durant's ref-aided 50 point game to say "told you so."
GetItDone wrote:Durant continues to be the most overrated player in basketball.
Once again disappears in the 4th. On paper it looks like he played good, but he wasn't anything great. When defenses get tighter Durant gets exposed. He can't do much besides shoot jumpers.
NaturalThunder



Starter
User avatar
Posts: 2,065
And1: 265
Joined: Jun 13, 2012
Top

Post#452 Re: Race to the MVP pt. III
Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:23 am by SweetTouch

Big game for KD
Good to see him light up Marion, only for him to start bitching after the game
Stop being so disrespectful.
SweetTouch
RealGM
Posts: 18,057
And1: 1,404
Joined: Mar 29, 2010
Location: Fl
Top

Post#453 Re: Race to the MVP pt. III
Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:07 pm by LBJ-ITALY

1- Durant
2-Lebron
And?! who cares! they are the best 2 players in the world! however KD is favourite to win it, because OKC has a better record!
Image
LBJ-ITALY
Pro Prospect
User avatar
Posts: 879
And1: 166
Joined: Apr 22, 2011
Top

Post#454 Re: Race to the MVP pt. III
Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:19 pm by Hero

jayjamesson wrote:21FT's won't cut it. It's Lebron's to lose.


21 free throws :o Is that a season high?
ImissJordan wrote:I hate any team with LeBron James on it.
Hero
RealGM
User avatar
Posts: 15,773
And1: 8,304
Joined: Apr 5, 2012
Top

Post#455 Re: Race to the MVP pt. III
Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:31 pm by Left Side Drive

Hero wrote:
jayjamesson wrote:21FT's won't cut it. It's Lebron's to lose.


21 free throws :o Is that a season high?

Yes, he almost broke the all-time record of 23 FTM with no misses.
2014/2015
PG: K. Lowry / G. Vasquez / W. Cherry
SG: D. DeRozan / L. Williams / L. Fields
SF: T. Ross / James Johnson / B. Caboclo / J. Hamilton
PF: Amir Johnson / P. Patterson / T. Hansbrough
C: J. Valanciunas / C. Hayes / L. Nogueira
Left Side Drive


Lead Assistant
User avatar
Posts: 5,440
And1: 2,105
Joined: Dec 16, 2009
Location: ACC
Top

Post#456 Re: Race to the MVP pt. III
Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:00 pm by fallacy

Hero wrote:
jayjamesson wrote:21FT's won't cut it. It's Lebron's to lose.


21 free throws :o Is that a season high?

No, dwight had more in a game off the top of my head. Also dwight and harden average more per game off the top of my head
**** Ron Artest
**** Marco Belinelli
Stephen Jackson aint bout dis lyfe
Patrick Beverly deserves to have his knee ripped to pieces
fallacy




RealGM
User avatar
Posts: 10,415
And1: 516
Joined: Jan 11, 2010
Top

Post#457 Re: Race to the MVP pt. III
Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:00 pm by QPR

Dirk had 24 in the WCFs against the Thunder two seasons back.
QPR
Junior
Posts: 334
And1: 140
Joined: Mar 1, 2011
Top

Post#458 Re: Race to the MVP pt. III
Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:27 pm by LBJ-ITALY

fallacy wrote:
Hero wrote:
jayjamesson wrote:21FT's won't cut it. It's Lebron's to lose.


21 free throws :o Is that a season high?

No, dwight had more in a game off the top of my head. Also dwight and harden average more per game off the top of my head


I don't understand why KD gets so many ft, when he is,basicly, a jump shooter and from the other hand, I don't understand why Lebron averaged almost 10.3 FTA in Cleveland and now he is averaging only 6 ft per game!
Did I miss something?
Image
LBJ-ITALY
Pro Prospect
User avatar
Posts: 879
And1: 166
Joined: Apr 22, 2011
Top

Post#459 Re: Race to the MVP pt. III
Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:14 pm by MisterWestside

Doctor MJ wrote:What you're talking about here is a limitation on the precision of the tool, not a fundamental bias. I'll readily concede the former, but it rapidly becomes a smaller and smaller issue when you has much data as we have. Not that you can ever say "His +/- stats say X, he is clearly X good at playing basketball", it's not so straight forward, but if we're talking about issues relating to team dynamics, etc, then we are talking about issues that all stats would have because these are things that actually determine how effective a player is.

What +/- is telling us right now is that Durant has taken a leap forward in terms of how effective he is being. One can argue this has nothing to do with Durant improving (though I know you aren't doing that either), but there is enough data that it can't simply be dismissed for small sample size.


I'll agree with your post here, in principle. You're right; I'm not claiming that Durant's metrics are merely caused by stat social noise.

Sure it depends on your roster, but it's pretty hard to imagine the team whose offense wouldn't get considerably better if it had Durant in place of its lead off-ball scorer. He's better at it than everyone else. Put him on a weak team, it's a huge help. Put him on a strong team, he'll still lift the ceiling. There's basically no limit to how good a Durant-led offense can be.

LeBron on the other hand his offensive game is so impressive because he can do everything, which is at its most astonishing when you have other guys with a clear lack of skills. It's easy to imagine scenarios where diminishing returns are apparent because of this, along with the fact that we've actually seen it in Miami. When you add in that quite frankly there are players i"d rather have on ball than LeBron because they are better playmakers, that takes the portability issue further.
[/quote]

However, I disagree with you here. I don't think you're insinuating that LeBron isn't as "portable" but just in case your are, keep these two things in mind:

1. LeBron has played more off-ball basketball his season than in any other season, and production-wise he's in the neighborhood of his ridiculous '09-'10 campaigns. He's is more than capable at shifting his game to adapt to his team.
2. LeBron plays on a team with prime/elite NBA talent, and one of those players shares a similar skillset. He also joined a new team os opposed to having the team built around him. And yet the Heat clearly miss LeBron when he isn't on the floor, both on offense and defense (both from the game tape and the metrics). If that doesn't speak to his portability, I don't know what does.
3. In '12, savvy statisticians have observed that even with Durant's superior off-ball skills, his team offense was not as potent when Westbrook wasn't as assertive and Durant had to assume more offensive responsibilities. Even with great off-ball players, you have to assmble your team properly in order to maximize the talent. Being off-ball isn't necessarily "better" than being on-ball; you have to consider the rest of the roster's needs.
MisterWestside
Starter
Posts: 2,449
And1: 592
Joined: May 25, 2012
Top

Post#460 Re: Race to the MVP pt. III
Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:18 pm by JordansBulls

jayjamesson wrote:21FT's won't cut it. It's Lebron's to lose.

What is wrong with 21 FT's? He scored 52 points which is his career high and not sure what the season high is. But Lebron's high this season I believe is 39 which just happened.
Image
"Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships."
- Michael Jordan
JordansBulls
RealGM
User avatar
Posts: 46,865
And1: 652
Joined: Jul 12, 2006
Location: HCA (Homecourt Advantage)
Top

PreviousNext

Return to The General Board


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 6rings4LeClutch, BaffLer, BayAreaFan, BCK, Blackfyre, ChosenSavior, ChrisTheFuturePaul, COM_GTFO, crazy_me_87, HeatWillRise, HOOPSMAK, Katunga, KF10, LKTD, Mr Sixer, Myst0508, Nitrus34, NOFX, parapooper, Rastas, Saint_Killa, Saintsteven, Smash3, SmoothKobra, tifu, Tomas_11, wablty, yoadknux, Zaschrona