Race to the MVP pt. III

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Re: Race to the MVP pt. III 

Post#661 » by lorak » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:21 am

Durant is great, he probably is playing GOAT scoring season, but the game is more than just scoring. And even is Durant is slightly better on offense than James (what's arguable, because LJ is much better playmaker), then there's still the other end of the court. And LeBron is defensive anchor of Heat and as showed by great SideshowBob's post, LJ is amazing defender. So no doubt he's better player than Durant. Is he also MVP? I guess it depends on criteria. If team result means more than actual contribution to that results then yeah, whey not Durant?
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Re: Race to the MVP pt. III 

Post#662 » by chales_zed » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:40 am

Lebron is the best player in the league, but is Durant more valuable?

There's a massive influx of combo-guards. Rose, Westbrook, Lillard, Irving, Holiday, Jennings, Wall and they're all ball-dominant slashers. If you placed Lebron in those teams, sure they're better, but there's also redundancy just like on the Heat with Lebron and Wade because, for example, a tandem of Rose and Lebron are at their best when they've both got the ball in their hands to create for others and for themselves, usually by slashing to the basket.

Whereas Durant is great without needing to dominate the ball. Westbrook can dribble the air out of it and take all his shots and Durant will still get his 30 points on elite efficiency. And he's a threat to catch and shoot from anywhere on the field, you'd have to get a long defender to stick on him like glue wherever he chooses to roam, I wouldn't be surprised if Matt Barnes follows him into the locker-room and toilet breaks, he's just too much of a scoring threat.
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Re: Race to the MVP pt. III 

Post#663 » by ShowTimeERA » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:06 am

As of 1/23

1. Durant


2. Paul/Lebron

The gap between Lebron and Durant for best player in the NBA is extremely close...
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Re: Race to the MVP pt. III 

Post#664 » by WinisKing » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:17 am

ShowTimeERA wrote:As of 1/23

1. Durant


2. Paul/Lebron

The gap between Lebron and Durant for best player in the NBA is extremely close...

Overreaction from one good game by Durant

The same can be said about those who place Lebron ahead after every Heat win
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Re: Race to the MVP pt. III 

Post#665 » by ShowTimeERA » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:36 am

WinisKing wrote:
ShowTimeERA wrote:As of 1/23

1. Durant


2. Paul/Lebron

The gap between Lebron and Durant for best player in the NBA is extremely close...

Overreaction from one good game by Durant

The same can be said about those who place Lebron ahead after every Heat win


Not at all, I post my current MVP rankings on a weekly basis. Those who place Lebron ahead after every Heat win are the one's grasping for anything they can grab onto in order to run into this thread...
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Re: Race to the MVP pt. III 

Post#666 » by jayjamesson » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:08 am

If making a case for the best player is reaching I don't know why we having a discussion. GTFO kobe stans.
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Re: Race to the MVP pt. III 

Post#667 » by FlashFlare » Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:49 am

I've got Durant for MVP right now based on his team's record. I've got Paul and LeBron tied for 2nd. Though I do think LeBron is the most valuable...you can tell just by how the Heat struggle when he's not the floor.
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Re: Race to the MVP pt. III 

Post#668 » by Benedict_Boozer » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:04 pm

I saw that Clips game the other night - Durant when he gets rolling with his J, just forget about it. It's effortless how he drills deep 3pters from all over the floor and he was making some great dribble penetration passes also. He and Lebron are different players, and he won't get acknowledged as "better" unless he can get it done on the biggest stage in the Finals, but damn he is good.

You gotta have him in front now even if it's just slightly.

At least this year it would be a well deserved MVP no matter which one of them wins.
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Re: Race to the MVP pt. III 

Post#669 » by BirdmanPresents » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:07 pm

Whoever still says Durant is just a scorer and doesn't do much else on the floor is an absolute idiot. He's been more than a scorer for the past few years now, he moves the ball so well and gets those "hockey assists" that don't show up in the stat line.
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Re: Race to the MVP pt. III 

Post#670 » by orangeparka » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:09 pm

chales_zed wrote:Lebron is the best player in the league, but is Durant more valuable?

There's a massive influx of combo-guards. Rose, Westbrook, Lillard, Irving, Holiday, Jennings, Wall and they're all ball-dominant slashers. If you placed Lebron in those teams, sure they're better, but there's also redundancy just like on the Heat with Lebron and Wade because, for example, a tandem of Rose and Lebron are at their best when they've both got the ball in their hands to create for others and for themselves, usually by slashing to the basket.

Whereas Durant is great without needing to dominate the ball. Westbrook can dribble the air out of it and take all his shots and Durant will still get his 30 points on elite efficiency. And he's a threat to catch and shoot from anywhere on the field, you'd have to get a long defender to stick on him like glue wherever he chooses to roam, I wouldn't be surprised if Matt Barnes follows him into the locker-room and toilet breaks, he's just too much of a scoring threat.


True. Basically the argument would be that LeBron alone would lead a far, far better record since he can be the primary ball-handler (old CLE), but KD is more valuable if you already have an elite primary ball-handler/attacker like Westbrook/Rose on the team.
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Re: Race to the MVP pt. III 

Post#671 » by orangeparka » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:13 pm

WinisKing wrote:
ShowTimeERA wrote:As of 1/23

1. Durant


2. Paul/Lebron

The gap between Lebron and Durant for best player in the NBA is extremely close...

Overreaction from one good game by Durant

The same can be said about those who place Lebron ahead after every Heat win


His last few games have all been spectacular. Last game was a hella impressive performance by Westbrook/KD and the Thunder, even without CP3 IMO.

I would bet money that KD would win if it was decided today, and possibly that he'll win it this season. IMO, it's EXTREMELY tough to win four MVPs in five years, I just don't see it happening.

I would put Westbrook somewhere up there too. OKC is straight BALLIN', and in the entire month of January, he's 27/6/7. :o
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Re: Race to the MVP pt. III 

Post#672 » by TheKingOfVa360 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:45 pm

DavidStern wrote:Durant is great, he probably is playing GOAT scoring season, but the game is more than just scoring. And even is Durant is slightly better on offense than James (what's arguable, because LJ is much better playmaker), then there's still the other end of the court. And LeBron is defensive anchor of Heat and as showed by great SideshowBob's post, LJ is amazing defender. So no doubt he's better player than Durant. Is he also MVP? I guess it depends on criteria. If team result means more than actual contribution to that results then yeah, whey not Durant?


How can Durant be having the GOAT scoring season when Adrian Dantley had several better ones in the 80's? Durant is a 6'11 Dantley imo.


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1. Durant
2. CP3
3. Lebron
4. Melo
5. Duncan
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Re: Race to the MVP pt. III 

Post#673 » by slick_watts » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:55 pm

TheKingOfVa360 wrote:How can Durant be having the GOAT scoring season when Adrian Dantley had several better ones in the 80's? Durant is a 6'11 Dantley imo.


First of all did you even watch Dantley or did you check basketball-reference.com and decide this was true? If it's the latter you should have also noted the difference in pace between eras. If you adjust for pace, Durant's season looks better than Dantley's. You can't adjust for defenses, either, which IMO are better today than they were in the early to mid 80's.
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Re: Race to the MVP pt. III 

Post#674 » by theokie » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:12 pm

TheKingOfVa360 wrote:
DavidStern wrote:Durant is great, he probably is playing GOAT scoring season, but the game is more than just scoring. And even is Durant is slightly better on offense than James (what's arguable, because LJ is much better playmaker), then there's still the other end of the court. And LeBron is defensive anchor of Heat and as showed by great SideshowBob's post, LJ is amazing defender. So no doubt he's better player than Durant. Is he also MVP? I guess it depends on criteria. If team result means more than actual contribution to that results then yeah, whey not Durant?


How can Durant be having the GOAT scoring season when Adrian Dantley had several better ones in the 80's? Durant is a 6'11 Dantley imo.



Thats pretty debatable on who's season is better when it comes to scoring. Durant having a 50/40/90 season is something Dantley couldn't even come close to, as he wasn't ever much of a 3-point shooter.

Dantley's Best Seasons: (excluding seasons where he played only about a quarter of the games)
TS% = .652; eFG%= .558; 56/x/86; 30.6 PPG
TS% = .635; eFG%= .576; 58/x/84; 28.0 PPG
TS% = .651; eFG%= .570; 57/x/79; 30.3 PPG

Durant This Season:
TS% = .655; eFG% = .572; 52/42/91; 29.5 PPG

Numbers are pretty close. Could argue ones better than the other i suppose, but in my opinion the numbers favor Durant slightly. But I think its incorrect to automatically declare that Dantley "had several better ones" when in fact thats not the case. At the very he had several seasons that are pretty close or equal, but likely fall short of what KD's doing right now.
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Re: Race to the MVP pt. III 

Post#675 » by fatal9 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:14 pm

TheKingOfVa360 wrote:How can Durant be having the GOAT scoring season when Adrian Dantley had several better ones in the 80's? Durant is a 6'11 Dantley imo.

Durant, other than being a flat out better scorer, is the anti-Dantley (which is a good thing). They play nothing alike and are on completely different ends of the spectrum in terms of how effective they are as volume scorers in a team setting. This terrible comparison needs to stop.
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Re: Race to the MVP pt. III 

Post#676 » by fallacy » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:28 pm

The only thing Durant and dantley have in common is their ts%. Durant is far superior in every other aspect
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Re: Race to the MVP pt. III 

Post#677 » by NYK_89 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:33 pm

theokie wrote:
TheKingOfVa360 wrote:
DavidStern wrote:Durant is great, he probably is playing GOAT scoring season, but the game is more than just scoring. And even is Durant is slightly better on offense than James (what's arguable, because LJ is much better playmaker), then there's still the other end of the court. And LeBron is defensive anchor of Heat and as showed by great SideshowBob's post, LJ is amazing defender. So no doubt he's better player than Durant. Is he also MVP? I guess it depends on criteria. If team result means more than actual contribution to that results then yeah, whey not Durant?


How can Durant be having the GOAT scoring season when Adrian Dantley had several better ones in the 80's? Durant is a 6'11 Dantley imo.



Thats pretty debatable on who's season is better when it comes to scoring. Durant having a 50/40/90 season is something Dantley couldn't even come close to, as he wasn't ever much of a 3-point shooter.

Dantley's Best Seasons: (excluding seasons where he played only about a quarter of the games)
TS% = .652; eFG%= .558; 56/x/86; 30.6 PPG
TS% = .635; eFG%= .576; 58/x/84; 28.0 PPG
TS% = .651; eFG%= .570; 57/x/79; 30.3 PPG

Durant This Season:
TS% = .655; eFG% = .572; 52/42/91; 29.5 PPG

Numbers are pretty close. Could argue ones better than the other i suppose, but in my opinion the numbers favor Durant slightly. But I think its incorrect to automatically declare that Dantley "had several better ones" when in fact thats not the case. At the very he had several seasons that are pretty close or equal, but likely fall short of what KD's doing right now.

Eh lets remember that the season is far from over right now.
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Re: Race to the MVP pt. III 

Post#678 » by theokie » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:45 pm

NYK_89 wrote:
theokie wrote:
Thats pretty debatable on who's season is better when it comes to scoring. Durant having a 50/40/90 season is something Dantley couldn't even come close to, as he wasn't ever much of a 3-point shooter.

Dantley's Best Seasons: (excluding seasons where he played only about a quarter of the games)
TS% = .652; eFG%= .558; 56/x/86; 30.6 PPG
TS% = .635; eFG%= .576; 58/x/84; 28.0 PPG
TS% = .651; eFG%= .570; 57/x/79; 30.3 PPG

Durant This Season:
TS% = .655; eFG% = .572; 52/42/91; 29.5 PPG

Numbers are pretty close. Could argue ones better than the other i suppose, but in my opinion the numbers favor Durant slightly. But I think its incorrect to automatically declare that Dantley "had several better ones" when in fact thats not the case. At the very he had several seasons that are pretty close or equal, but likely fall short of what KD's doing right now.

Eh lets remember that the season is far from over right now.


Not forgetting that. But since were talking about right now I can only use numbers up to this point. Half of an NBA season however is a pretty decent sample size regardless. And i was merely using those numbers as a way to compare someone else's point how Dantley had a better season than what KD is doing right now. Again, right now... I don't know how he will finish the season out, so I can only use what we have up to this point.
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Re: Race to the MVP pt. III 

Post#679 » by lorak » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:45 pm

TheKingOfVa360 wrote:
DavidStern wrote:Durant is great, he probably is playing GOAT scoring season, but the game is more than just scoring. And even is Durant is slightly better on offense than James (what's arguable, because LJ is much better playmaker), then there's still the other end of the court. And LeBron is defensive anchor of Heat and as showed by great SideshowBob's post, LJ is amazing defender. So no doubt he's better player than Durant. Is he also MVP? I guess it depends on criteria. If team result means more than actual contribution to that results then yeah, whey not Durant?


How can Durant be having the GOAT scoring season when Adrian Dantley had several better ones in the 80's? Durant is a 6'11 Dantley imo.



Dantley was ball stopper, who didn't help his teams offense much. At least not as much as Durant's helps Thunder. Lets say Dantley's scoring improved Jazz offense by +4 ortg. Durant's scoring improves Thunder offense by +9 (hypothetical values, just to show scale of difference between them.)
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Re: Race to the MVP pt. III 

Post#680 » by mj234eva » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:52 pm

RE: Dantley vs Durant, need some context in here:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=5288
I not look tough,” Mirotic said when asked about the reputation for some European players. “I am no tough guy. But tough guy playing.”

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