Race to the MVP pt. III

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Re: Race to the MVP pt. III 

Post#121 » by PCProductions » Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:38 pm

NYK_89 wrote:
PCProductions wrote:I was talking about the Knicks' record, not Melo's individual performance, which has been spectacular.

But, as we all know, the MVP race is highly contingent on team record, for which Knicks have been slipping.

Yeah but if they can recover the fact that a lot of these games were lost without melo will help him... unless he keeps missing stupid games like this


He's still in the race, it's just becoming a lot less obvious that he's the favorite unlike the beginning of the season where he had a legit case. If they finish anything less than 2nd in the East at his current rate of production, it's fair to say he won't be MVP.
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Re: Race to the MVP pt. III 

Post#122 » by NYK_89 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:38 pm

Also again i will restate the point that CP3 is not winnin the MVP at 17/9.5 playing 33 mpg as a pg...The numbers aren't there and he statistically is having maybe his 5th best season 3rd at absolute maximum
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Re: Race to the MVP pt. III 

Post#123 » by kamelion4291 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:40 pm

Paul isn't playing the minutes to warrant an MVP. It doesn't help his case when he goes to the bench and the Clippers have one of the top 2 benches in the league.
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Re: Race to the MVP pt. III 

Post#124 » by NYK_89 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:41 pm

PCProductions wrote:
NYK_89 wrote:
PCProductions wrote:I was talking about the Knicks' record, not Melo's individual performance, which has been spectacular.

But, as we all know, the MVP race is highly contingent on team record, for which Knicks have been slipping.

Yeah but if they can recover the fact that a lot of these games were lost without melo will help him... unless he keeps missing stupid games like this


He's still in the race, it's just becoming a lot less obvious that he's the favorite unlike the beginning of the season where he had a legit case. If they finish anything less than 2nd in the East at his current rate of production, it's fair to say he won't be MVP.

Its fairly safe to say the knicks are still a pretty heavy favorite for the 2nd seed, indiana is scorching hot right now things will even out.
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Re: Race to the MVP pt. III 

Post#125 » by NYK_89 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:43 pm

kamelion4291 wrote:Paul isn't playing the minutes to warrant an MVP. It doesn't help his case when he goes to the bench and the Clippers have one of the top 2 benches in the league.

^ vote him at the top all you want on this poll... unless the numbers and minutes skyrocket by the end of the season he has almost no chance against someone like Lebron or Durant or even Melo who all should be 27+ ppg on incredible efficency on other top teams. Also the clippers record is pretty inflated at the moment due to that winning streak, unless you think that is going to happen again their record will in the least fall off a bit.

If it doesn't it will be one of those MVP races that is looked back over on sites like this in 20 years and people will ask how the **** he won it 17/9.5 on a bad shooting % for the group (carmelo's is down because of the bad boston game but has been right there most of the season)ust simply cannot compete with 29/6/2.4 28/8/4 or 26.4/8.3/7
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Re: Race to the MVP pt. III 

Post#126 » by PCProductions » Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:46 pm

I dunno, though, because like others have said, Chris Paul has a good chance at winning the Derrick Rose award.
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Re: Race to the MVP pt. III 

Post#127 » by GetItDone » Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:48 pm

NYK_89 wrote:Also again i will restate the point that CP3 is not winnin the MVP at 17/9.5 playing 33 mpg as a pg...The numbers aren't there and he statistically is having maybe his 5th best season 3rd at absolute maximum

Yet his impact is nearly the same as his WS/48 are just as high as those years..
ThatsWhatIShved wrote:Disrespectfull thread. I would take 06 Arenas over Lebron. Other than traveling and suspected PED use, what does Lebron have over Gil?
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Re: Race to the MVP pt. III 

Post#128 » by NYK_89 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:50 pm

PCProductions wrote:I dunno, though, because like others have said, Chris Paul has a good chance at winning the Derrick Rose award.

Rose at the time was considered the only skilled offensive player on the team AND put up 25/7.7 in 38 mpg... Carmelo is that vote this year if they can pull out a 57+ win season(which they probably wont) Also the Bulls had the best record in the NBA, i doubt when seasons end comes the Clipps will have that I'm fairly certain that will belong to the thunder

ALSO i forgot to mention this Rose also vastly outplayed HIS expectations along with the team (again see Carmelo) as stated before its hard to even argue that CP3 is having his 3rd best season of the last 6... One of the top few to be sure but hardly an improvement the guy has been a top player for years
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Re: Race to the MVP pt. III 

Post#129 » by kamelion4291 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:50 pm

PCProductions wrote:I dunno, though, because like others have said, Chris Paul has a good chance at winning the Derrick Rose award.


Expectations had a large part of Rose winning the MVP. Nobody expected that team to be in contention for the #1 record and Rose had many memorable big 4th quarters with big shots.

People expected the Clippers to be good before the season started because of all the pieces they have around Paul, so they aren't really doing anything that far out of the ordinary. The win streak was great, but it just covered the fact that they had lost 4-5 games in a row just prior to that streak. You can't win the MVP playing only 2/3s of a basketball game.
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Re: Race to the MVP pt. III 

Post#130 » by kamelion4291 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:51 pm

GetItDone wrote:
NYK_89 wrote:Also again i will restate the point that CP3 is not winnin the MVP at 17/9.5 playing 33 mpg as a pg...The numbers aren't there and he statistically is having maybe his 5th best season 3rd at absolute maximum

Yet his impact is nearly the same as his WS/48 are just as high as those years..


By your logic, he could play 5 minutes a game, put up the same scaled WS/48 stats, and claim MVP. Quantity matters. 33 minutes a game isn't going to cut it.
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Re: Race to the MVP pt. III 

Post#131 » by GetItDone » Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:53 pm

kamelion4291 wrote:
GetItDone wrote:
NYK_89 wrote:Also again i will restate the point that CP3 is not winnin the MVP at 17/9.5 playing 33 mpg as a pg...The numbers aren't there and he statistically is having maybe his 5th best season 3rd at absolute maximum

Yet his impact is nearly the same as his WS/48 are just as high as those years..


By your logic, he could play 5 minutes a game, put up the same scaled WS/48 stats, and claim MVP. Quantity matters. 33 minutes a game isn't going to cut it.

Except playing 5 mins a game isn't going to show high WS.
ThatsWhatIShved wrote:Disrespectfull thread. I would take 06 Arenas over Lebron. Other than traveling and suspected PED use, what does Lebron have over Gil?
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Re: Race to the MVP pt. III 

Post#132 » by NYK_89 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:54 pm

GetItDone wrote:
NYK_89 wrote:Also again i will restate the point that CP3 is not winnin the MVP at 17/9.5 playing 33 mpg as a pg...The numbers aren't there and he statistically is having maybe his 5th best season 3rd at absolute maximum

Yet his impact is nearly the same as his WS/48 are just as high as those years..

What on earth man? Yeah he clearly still is a top 3-4 player, but on what planet are MVP voters using WS/48 for their voting... They use PPG and team wins mainly with high assist numbers helping.. Lets put it this way CP3's stock is basically at the max it will ever be right now after the winning streak+best record in the NBA, and most sites have him 3rd at best. Again this makes an interesting conversation here on a message board but isn't really based in the reality of mvp voting.
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Re: Race to the MVP pt. III 

Post#133 » by kamelion4291 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:56 pm

GetItDone wrote:Except playing 5 mins a game isn't going to show high WS.


I meant PER or any sort of efficiency stat. My bad. Either way, win shares are a pretty garbage stat to base his MVP candidacy off of. There are many outliers in those lists of offensive/defensive rating, the latter more than the former.
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Re: Race to the MVP pt. III 

Post#134 » by GetItDone » Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:59 pm

NYK_89 wrote:
GetItDone wrote:
NYK_89 wrote:Also again i will restate the point that CP3 is not winnin the MVP at 17/9.5 playing 33 mpg as a pg...The numbers aren't there and he statistically is having maybe his 5th best season 3rd at absolute maximum

Yet his impact is nearly the same as his WS/48 are just as high as those years..

What on earth man? Yeah he clearly still is a top 3-4 player, but on what planet are MVP voters using WS/48 for their voting... They use PPG and team wins mainly with high assist numbers helping.. Lets put it this way CP3's stock is basically at the max it will ever be right now after the winning streak+best record in the NBA, and most sites have him 3rd at best. Again this makes an interesting conversation here on a message board but isn't really based in the reality of mvp voting.

Paul's impact goes beyond numbers.

THe fact voters mainly only look at things such as ppg makes it a joke of an award. Plus, Paul is 2nd in league apg with that low mins, so not like he has low ones.
ThatsWhatIShved wrote:Disrespectfull thread. I would take 06 Arenas over Lebron. Other than traveling and suspected PED use, what does Lebron have over Gil?
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Re: Race to the MVP pt. III 

Post#135 » by GetItDone » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:00 pm

kamelion4291 wrote:
GetItDone wrote:Except playing 5 mins a game isn't going to show high WS.


I meant PER or any sort of efficiency stat. My bad. Either way, win shares are a pretty garbage stat to base his MVP candidacy off of. There are many outliers in those lists of offensive/defensive rating, the latter more than the former.

Everyone knows you can't use PER for small sample sizes.

You're grasping at straws now. Fact is, Paul's impact such as his WS, shows how he impacts the game so greatly even on low mins. They're higher now than even from his 20+/11 seasons.
ThatsWhatIShved wrote:Disrespectfull thread. I would take 06 Arenas over Lebron. Other than traveling and suspected PED use, what does Lebron have over Gil?
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Re: Race to the MVP pt. III 

Post#136 » by kamelion4291 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:03 pm

GetItDone wrote:
kamelion4291 wrote:
GetItDone wrote:Except playing 5 mins a game isn't going to show high WS.


I meant PER or any sort of efficiency stat. My bad. Either way, win shares are a pretty garbage stat to base his MVP candidacy off of. There are many outliers in those lists of offensive/defensive rating, the latter more than the former.

Everyone knows you can't use PER for small sample sizes.

You're grasping at straws now. Fact is, Paul's impact such as his WS, shows how he impacts the game so greatly even on low mins. They're higher now than even from his 20+/11 seasons.


Paul has only 0.1 more defensive win shares than Carlos Boozer, who subsequently is also ahead of LeBron. And you back that statistical interpretation? Why?
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Re: Race to the MVP pt. III 

Post#137 » by NYK_89 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:06 pm

GetItDone wrote:
NYK_89 wrote:
GetItDone wrote:Yet his impact is nearly the same as his WS/48 are just as high as those years..

What on earth man? Yeah he clearly still is a top 3-4 player, but on what planet are MVP voters using WS/48 for their voting... They use PPG and team wins mainly with high assist numbers helping.. Lets put it this way CP3's stock is basically at the max it will ever be right now after the winning streak+best record in the NBA, and most sites have him 3rd at best. Again this makes an interesting conversation here on a message board but isn't really based in the reality of mvp voting.

Paul's impact goes beyond numbers.

THe fact voters mainly only look at things such as ppg makes it a joke of an award. Plus, Paul is 2nd in league apg with that low mins, so not like he has low ones.

Of course its a total joke Lebron should have won the rose one and should be a massive favorite this year the dude is on another level then any other player... But thats just how it works
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Re: Race to the MVP pt. III 

Post#138 » by GetItDone » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:09 pm

kamelion4291 wrote:
Paul has only 0.1 more defensive win shares than Carlos Boozer, who subsequently is also ahead of LeBron. And you back that statistical interpretation? Why?

No one uses DEF/WS for PGs.

Dude like I said, you're grasping at straws now..
ThatsWhatIShved wrote:Disrespectfull thread. I would take 06 Arenas over Lebron. Other than traveling and suspected PED use, what does Lebron have over Gil?
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Re: Race to the MVP pt. III 

Post#139 » by GetItDone » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:10 pm

NYK_89 wrote:Of course its a total joke Lebron should have won the rose one and should be a massive favorite this year the dude is on another level then any other player... But thats just how it works

I have absolutely no issue with giving it to LeBron again this year.
ThatsWhatIShved wrote:Disrespectfull thread. I would take 06 Arenas over Lebron. Other than traveling and suspected PED use, what does Lebron have over Gil?
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Re: Race to the MVP pt. III 

Post#140 » by kamelion4291 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:12 pm

GetItDone wrote:
kamelion4291 wrote:
Paul has only 0.1 more defensive win shares than Carlos Boozer, who subsequently is also ahead of LeBron. And you back that statistical interpretation? Why?

No one uses DEF/WS for PGs.

Dude like I said, you're grasping at straws now..


Uh, you're the one bringing up WS/48. YOU are backing it. I'm asking why and you're deflecting.

WS and WS/48 both use DEF/WS.

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