Race to the MVP pt. III

[imchillin]

Very simple for me

This is the Most Valuable Player to his team



This is a great scorer who helps his team win

[KDgoat]

You might as well photoshop KD his picture on the PER stat. But point taken.

[kingkirk]

I don't think anyone can successfully argue that Durant is the better all round player, because he is not, but again, the MVP has never been about that.

[jayjamesson]

I don't think anyone can successfully argue that Durant is the better all round player, because he is not, but again, the MVP has never been about that.

If you do everything for your team, you're the most valuable, I guess.

[JordansBulls]

I don't think anyone can successfully argue that Durant is the better all round player, because he is not, but again, the MVP has never been about that.

If you do everything for your team, you're the most valuable, I guess.

Well yeah you are the most valuable on your team, doesnt mean the most valuable to the league though. If your team has the most allstars in the league, I wouldn't call you the most valueable in the league without the best record. Not like those guys are handicapped or something, Wade pretty much does everything Lebron does, but Lebron just does it better, so the ball is in his hands more so. And Bosh doesn't get nearly as many shots as Lebron.

[ricochet]

Very simple for me

This is the Most Valuable Player to his team



This is a great scorer who helps his team win

WOW... Now that's something that can pretty much leave everyone speechless.. Just too good.

[MrHidden]

Very simple for me
]

WOW... Now that's something that can pretty leave everyone speechless.. Just too good.

This is pretty scary
oh my gosh LeBron is ....

[Krodis]

Durant 37 points and 7-20 made field goals. Unbelievable. Free throws are really free. Some were legit but so many were not. I don't think any other player in the League gets such calls. Maybe Harden at times...maybe.

Have never understood why FTs get discounted so much, given how many players can't shoot them.

He's made 42/43 in the last two games, both of which went to OT so were close games, yet this is somehow construed as a negative? His FT shooting is an enormous weapon, no matter what stage of the game.

He is a great free throw shooter. That has nothing to do with him being gifted free throws though.

Do you have anything newer than 2 years old?

[Tien]

Very simple for me

This is the Most Valuable Player to his team



This is a great scorer who helps his team win

That's what I've been saying the whole season. Asked every single night to do everything for his team at an elite level, and that's what this award is all about.

[TimoCruz]

Very simple for me

This is the Most Valuable Player to his team



This is a great scorer who helps his team win

WOW... Now that's something that can pretty leave everyone speechless.. Just too good.

Personally, I don't find that to be very convincing. Most people on this board are savvy basketball minds and would totally understand what I mean by when I say, its all about the system. Lebron plays in a system, where hes the primary ball handler and creates for his shooters/teammates off the high screen n roll. In Cleveland as well, thats how Lebron excelled, in high screen n rolls surrounded with shooters. This plays a big impact on the offensive side of the floor, specifically in terms of assists and allows for stats to be inflated at times. I'm not hating at all, Lebron's the best palyer in the game, but at times stats are very inflated based on the system in which a player is playing. Now lets take guys like Kobe/KD who have played in one particiular system their entire careers where they are not needed to be primary ball handlers, rather play off the ball quite a bit, unless its end of game/end of shot clock scenario. Yes, at times KD will be entrusted with the ball handling responsibility, mattering on how the opposing team is guarding the screen n roll. Depending on that, KD will disect the screen roll and create sufficiently for his teammates leading to "assists", which in no way suggests that he doesn't pass otherwise as players DO pass and DONT get assists (a simple concept). Rebounds aren't all that different, a difference of 0.5 or whatever it is, but than again that doesn't matter much as most rebounds for both players aren't rebounds coralled in traffic rather they're just odd defensive rebounds with no pressure around them.

As you can see, I'm not a big stat guy. Rather, I focus on what I see while watching games and difference each player makes on the floor for their own teams. I have a solid basketball background and believe that that is the best way to see a players impact. Stats will never lie, but won't tell the whole story.

At this point, I have KD/Paul/LBJ. The sole reason is because they have better records in a tougher conference. Every year, there is a huge emphasis on which team is clear cut the best in the league and the MVP regularly goes to the outstanding player, if so, on that team. If the heat go on a huge winning streak and make a push for best record in the league, than its possibly LBJ will get it. With all that said, you never know with our media today, they can start the hype of any player almost instantanously

[Hero]

Have never understood why FTs get discounted so much, given how many players can't shoot them.

He's made 42/43 in the last two games, both of which went to OT so were close games, yet this is somehow construed as a negative? His FT shooting is an enormous weapon, no matter what stage of the game.

He is a great free throw shooter. That has nothing to do with him being gifted free throws though.

Do you have anything newer than 2 years old?

Well if someone would post some of the calls from the last 2 games we could examine those. Can only post what's available.

[kabstah]

I don't get the people complaining about KD's free throws. First of all, the guy gets to the rim as often as Kobe -- even a Kwame Brown/Smush Parker era Kobe -- ever did. Secondly, Kevin Martin actually had a much, much higher FTA/FGA ratio back in 2008 and 2009 and even Reggie Miller had a season with a higher ratio than what KD currently has.

[Krodis]

No, but players only get free throws if $tern is trying to rig the league in their favor. That's why NBA golden boy and perpetual superstar Corey Maggette gets so many.

[GSP]

I don't get the people complaining about KD's free throws. First of all, the guy gets to the rim as often as Kobe -- even a Kwame Brown/Smush Parker era Kobe -- ever did. Secondly, Kevin Martin actually had a much, much higher FTA/FGA ratio back in 2008 and 2009 and even Reggie Miller had a season with a higher ratio than what KD currently has.

All those guys are long and have same body types too. Ppl on this board really underrate players abilitiy to draw fouls using their bodies in different ways. Its a skill and i just watch the nuggets game. 2 fouls shouldnt have been called on Kd and one was questionable since little contact. The Mavs game only 1 call was like that ppl really have to watch the games to get a better understanding instfead of look at fta and who drives more. Reggie was notorious for drawing fouls outside the paint.

[kamelion4291]

Personally, I don't find that to be very convincing. Most people on this board are savvy basketball minds and would totally understand what I mean by when I say, its all about the system. Lebron plays in a system, where hes the primary ball handler and creates for his shooters/teammates off the high screen n roll. In Cleveland as well, thats how Lebron excelled, in high screen n rolls surrounded with shooters. This plays a big impact on the offensive side of the floor, specifically in terms of assists and allows for stats to be inflated at times. I'm not hating at all, Lebron's the best palyer in the game, but at times stats are very inflated based on the system in which a player is playing. Now lets take guys like Kobe/KD who have played in one particiular system their entire careers where they are not needed to be primary ball handlers, rather play off the ball quite a bit, unless its end of game/end of shot clock scenario. Yes, at times KD will be entrusted with the ball handling responsibility, mattering on how the opposing team is guarding the screen n roll. Depending on that, KD will disect the screen roll and create sufficiently for his teammates leading to "assists", which in no way suggests that he doesn't pass otherwise as players DO pass and DONT get assists (a simple concept). Rebounds aren't all that different, a difference of 0.5 or whatever it is, but than again that doesn't matter much as most rebounds for both players aren't rebounds coralled in traffic rather they're just odd defensive rebounds with no pressure around them.

As you can see, I'm not a big stat guy. Rather, I focus on what I see while watching games and difference each player makes on the floor for their own teams. I have a solid basketball background and believe that that is the best way to see a players impact. Stats will never lie, but won't tell the whole story.

At this point, I have KD/Paul/LBJ. The sole reason is because they have better records in a tougher conference. Every year, there is a huge emphasis on which team is clear cut the best in the league and the MVP regularly goes to the outstanding player, if so, on that team. If the heat go on a huge winning streak and make a push for best record in the league, than its possibly LBJ will get it. With all that said, you never know with our media today, they can start the hype of any player almost instantanously

Chris Paul plays 33 minutes a game. A big reason why the Clippers have the record they do is because their bench comes in and destroys teams. You can't win MVP when you put up numbers like Paul is doing and only playing 2/3 of a game. You took an MVP award, said that stats don't mean anything to you, and put the #1 reason for MVP ranking as record/team performance. That might be the laziest analysis of all-time. Let's just give the MVP to whoever has the best record then. We'll just change the name of the MVP to the Derrick Rose award.

[GreenHat]

I don't think anyone can successfully argue that Durant is the better all round player, because he is not, but again, the MVP has never been about that.

If you do everything for your team, you're the most valuable, I guess.

Well yeah you are the most valuable on your team, doesnt mean the most valuable to the league though. If your team has the most allstars in the league, I wouldn't call you the most valueable in the league without the best record. Not like those guys are handicapped or something, Wade pretty much does everything Lebron does, but Lebron just does it better, so the ball is in his hands more so. And Bosh doesn't get nearly as many shots as Lebron.

Sure if you use an overly simplistic way of judging teams by counting all stars. But no one would be dumb enough to count an old Ray Allen who can't guard anyone on a higher level than the at least half dozen players on the Thunder who are better than him.

Oh wait I can't say "no one"....

Wouldn't it be better to actually judge players' impact?

[GreenHat]

Very simple for me

This is the Most Valuable Player to his team



This is a great scorer who helps his team win

That's what I've been saying the whole season. Asked every single night to do everything for his team at an elite level, and that's what this award is all about.

That's not even taking into account defense.

If a point guard is killing the Heat, Lebron has been switched on to them. If wing is killing the Heat Lebron has been switched on to them. If a pf has been killing the Heat Lebron has been switched on to them.

No player ever has had to fill as many roles as Lebron does currently on both sides of the ball.

[nyk_buc]

^ People who watch NBA day in and day out know LBJ is the best player and the most valuable player.

But people always look to give another player the award b/c who wants to see the same guy win all the time? That's fine .

[GreenHat]

Personally, I don't find that to be very convincing. Most people on this board are savvy basketball minds and would totally understand what I mean by when I say, its all about the system. Lebron plays in a system, where hes the primary ball handler and creates for his shooters/teammates off the high screen n roll. In Cleveland as well, thats how Lebron excelled, in high screen n rolls surrounded with shooters. This plays a big impact on the offensive side of the floor, specifically in terms of assists and allows for stats to be inflated at times. I'm not hating at all, Lebron's the best palyer in the game, but at times stats are very inflated based on the system in which a player is playing. Now lets take guys like Kobe/KD who have played in one particiular system their entire careers where they are not needed to be primary ball handlers, rather play off the ball quite a bit, unless its end of game/end of shot clock scenario. Yes, at times KD will be entrusted with the ball handling responsibility, mattering on how the opposing team is guarding the screen n roll. Depending on that, KD will disect the screen roll and create sufficiently for his teammates leading to "assists", which in no way suggests that he doesn't pass otherwise as players DO pass and DONT get assists (a simple concept). Rebounds aren't all that different, a difference of 0.5 or whatever it is, but than again that doesn't matter much as most rebounds for both players aren't rebounds coralled in traffic rather they're just odd defensive rebounds with no pressure around them.

The problem is that Kobe/KD could not play this type of system. They turn the ball over and even if they are decent passers they aren't good enough.

The point about rebounds is that Lebron has to lead the team in rebounding because there are no capable rebounders on the team. As I've shown a large reason for the gap between the Thunder and the Heats Ortg which is being cited by many is because the Thunder are a much better ORB team which has nothing to do with Durant. Its like when the Bulls had a high Ortg with Rose.

As you can see, I'm not a big stat guy. Rather, I focus on what I see while watching games and difference each player makes on the floor for their own teams. I have a solid basketball background and believe that that is the best way to see a players impact. Stats will never lie, but won't tell the whole story.

But what whole story will your eyes tell you? Have you seen every minute of every game played this season by every team? Have you seen close to that amount?

Your eyes will lie and won't tell you the whole story.

At this point, I have KD/Paul/LBJ. The sole reason is because they have better records in a tougher conference. Every year, there is a huge emphasis on which team is clear cut the best in the league and the MVP regularly goes to the outstanding player, if so, on that team. If the heat go on a huge winning streak and make a push for best record in the league, than its possibly LBJ will get it. With all that said, you never know with our media today, they can start the hype of any player almost instantanously

Agreed Lebron might not win if the record is far off of the Thunder.

Of course that difference is mainly because the Thunder have had better defense and rebounding than the Heat.

[MisterWestside]

Good posts, GreenHat. Nice to see a poster who actually investigates what's taking place behind the team and impact numbers instead of automatically taking everything at face value.