Page 1 of 2
Re: The "Built Around Him" Excuse
Posted: Tue Jan 8, 2013 12:52 pm
by Ito
Cavs would have won it all in 09 in they never trade for jamison... Antawn Jamison is a cancer
Re: The "Built Around Him" Excuse
Posted: Tue Jan 8, 2013 2:38 pm
by Renkz
Ito wrote:Cavs would have won it all in 09 in they never trade for jamison... Antawn Jamison is a cancer
They got Jamison in 2010, he did not influence the cavs losing in 09.
Re: The "Built Around Him" Excuse
Posted: Tue Jan 8, 2013 4:46 pm
by No Offense
narmerguy wrote:The Cleveland team was garbage and Mike Brown was garbage. That's really all there is to it.
"Garbage" teams don't win 66 games in a season and go 39-2 at home.
A "garbage" coach would never figure out a way to do that, either.
Re: The "Built Around Him" Excuse
Posted: Tue Jan 8, 2013 6:11 pm
by JordansBulls
KING CB4 wrote:I see this line brought up a lot when people try defending LeBron's Cavalier teammates. Certain people feel that because LeBron was surrounded by shooters in Cleveland, it cancelled out their severe lack of star talent aside form LeBron. Whats the point of having the "team built around you" when your opponent in every playoff series has the next 3-4 best players after LeBron? Doesn't the fact LeBron won a title and went to two Finals with Wade, put the "built around him" excuse to bed? I never really understood the arguement....
The Magic had no one on the team after Dwight. Jameer was out and Hedo and Lewis were not that good in comparison to Mo, Varejao and Ben Wallace (proven champion).
The next year Boston had 0 all nba members and only won 50 games, not like they were some legit contenders or if it was the 2008 squad.
Re: The "Built Around Him" Excuse
Posted: Tue Jan 8, 2013 6:23 pm
by Dupp
^ hedo and Lewis outplayed everyone on the cavs bar lebron quite handily jb. Wallace come back from a broken leg and even pietrus played better than mo. He out scored our entire bench practically every game. Rashard was amazing.
The series wasnt that long ago and you know this, you're just saying false things to cater to your agenda.
Edit - Boston wasn't legit contenders? They took LA to the final minute of game 7. Not sure what you think a contender is? I guess OKC wasn't a contender last season?
Re: The "Built Around Him" Excuse
Posted: Tue Jan 8, 2013 6:30 pm
by Tien
38 / 8 / 8
If you can't win a series averaging that, blame your crap team.
Re: The "Built Around Him" Excuse
Posted: Tue Jan 8, 2013 8:28 pm
by GeneralNbaFan
KING CB4 wrote:I see this line brought up a lot when people try defending LeBron's Cavalier teammates. Certain people feel that because LeBron was surrounded by shooters in Cleveland, it cancelled out their severe lack of star talent aside form LeBron. Whats the point of having the "team built around you" when your opponent in every playoff series has the next 3-4 best players after LeBron? Doesn't the fact LeBron won a title and went to two Finals with Wade, put the "built around him" excuse to bed? I never really understood the arguement....
What exactly dont you understand? Do you think a team with 5 players who needs the ball in their hands to be effectiv is a good fit?
Of course not! But I am talking about players who have the same talent.
But its clear that you would rather have a guy who doesnt fit ( like Wade) than a guy who fits ( like JJ Redick) because the talent gap is too big!
Conclusion: At first you look at talent and then on fitting!
Re: The "Built Around Him" Excuse
Posted: Tue Jan 8, 2013 8:54 pm
by B2Bhoops
It's called the whole being more than the sum of it's parts. Happens all the time in sport and in life.
Re: The "Built Around Him" Excuse
Posted: Tue Jan 8, 2013 11:20 pm
by No Offense
B2Bhoops wrote:It's called the whole being more than the sum of it's parts. Happens all the time in sport and in life.
See: 2011 finals.
Re: The "Built Around Him" Excuse
Posted: Tue Jan 8, 2013 11:30 pm
by Deus
The 07-08 Mavericks won 67 games (or something like that) and lost to the GS Warriors in the first round.
The regular season means nothing.
Re: The "Built Around Him" Excuse
Posted: Tue Jan 8, 2013 11:36 pm
by Golabki
Dutuctive Depp wrote:^ hedo and Lewis outplayed everyone on the cavs bar lebron quite handily jb. Wallace come back from a broken leg and even pietrus played better than mo. He out scored our entire bench practically every game. Rashard was amazing.
The series wasnt that long ago and you know this, you're just saying false things to cater to your agenda.
Edit - Boston wasn't legit contenders? They took LA to the final minute of game 7. Not sure what you think a contender is? I guess OKC wasn't a contender last season?
As you point out, Boston was obviously a contender, since they were literally minutes away from winning...
However, they were not a "great" team. I think the 09, 10, 11 were fairly weak years without a dominate team in either conference. The '08 Celtics were dominant, but KG was hurt in '09 and they were too old in '10. '12 Heat were dominant, but not ready in '11. I think the Lakers and Mavs both got a bit lucky (in terms of peaking while the rest of the league was a bit soft)....
So, I think that saying there was a window of opportunity missed for the Cavs in '09, '10 is pretty valid.
Re: The "Built Around Him" Excuse
Posted: Tue Jan 8, 2013 11:41 pm
by Nowitness
Deus wrote:The 07-08 Mavericks won 67 games (or something like that) and lost to the GS Warriors in the first round.
The regular season means nothing.
06-07, but yeah, in the end, the regular season is for getting guys game-set, and getting a good playoff spot. The playoffs always has revealed great team's biggest faults. GS had a better bench and faster pace than the Mavs in 07, and I think Nellie even knew some of if not most of the plays the Mavs would run.
I still don't know how those Cavs teams did so well, Lebron played amazingly, but on paper, some of the benches they had through 06-10 were just awful, especially in 07, when they ended up in the Finals.
Re: The "Built Around Him" Excuse
Posted: Tue Jan 8, 2013 11:47 pm
by druggas
Frank Mulely wrote:He definitely showed some quit in him during the playoffs, that roster wasn't adequate to win a ring but we all saw what happened.
Re: The "Built Around Him" Excuse
Posted: Tue Jan 8, 2013 11:54 pm
by RatherUnique
Supporting cast wasn't garbage. The issue was, as OP noted, you take away Lebron, the next best 2-3 players were on Orlando/Boston. THAT is an issue. With Wade & Bosh, that isn't an issue anymore.
In the '09 ECFs, after Lebron, the next best players in the series were Howard, Lewis, & Hedo. None of those guys played for the Cavs. Howard & Lewis went buckwild on that Cleveland frontline.
In the '10 Semis, Rondo & KG were dominant in that series. Nobody on the Cavs outside of Lebron matched their impact.
He needed a significant upgrade in his supporting cast, bottomline.
Re: The "Built Around Him" Excuse
Posted: Wed Jan 9, 2013 12:10 am
by Ikcelaks
I still don't know how those Cavs teams did so well, Lebron played amazingly, but on paper, some of the benches they had through 06-10 were just awful, especially in 07, when they ended up in the Finals.
1) The East was bad.
2) LeBron had an absolutely amazing ability to turn players with very limited offensive skills into useful pieces. When the Cavs were riding LeBron hard (in another word: always), he assumed essentially all of the playmaking responsibilities.
Re: The "Built Around Him" Excuse
Posted: Wed Jan 9, 2013 12:23 am
by KING CB4
No Offense wrote:B2Bhoops wrote:It's called the whole being more than the sum of it's parts. Happens all the time in sport and in life.
See: 2011 finals.
The 2011 Mavs have a great coach and role players that could hit shots in the clutch. Terry, Kidd, Barea, etc. How many times do you remember LeBron's teammates coming through in the clutch? Boobie Gibson in 07, Delonte West in the wizards series, and Jamario Moon hitting like 6 threes are the only ones that come to mind right now.
Re: The "Built Around Him" Excuse
Posted: Wed Jan 9, 2013 4:27 am
by Dupp
Golabki wrote:Dutuctive Depp wrote:^ hedo and Lewis outplayed everyone on the cavs bar lebron quite handily jb. Wallace come back from a broken leg and even pietrus played better than mo. He out scored our entire bench practically every game. Rashard was amazing.
The series wasnt that long ago and you know this, you're just saying false things to cater to your agenda.
Edit - Boston wasn't legit contenders? They took LA to the final minute of game 7. Not sure what you think a contender is? I guess OKC wasn't a contender last season?
As you point out, Boston was obviously a contender, since they were literally minutes away from winning...
However, they were not a "great" team. I think the 09, 10, 11 were fairly weak years without a dominate team in either conference. The '08 Celtics were dominant, but KG was hurt in '09 and they were too old in '10. '12 Heat were dominant, but not ready in '11. I think the Lakers and Mavs both got a bit lucky (in terms of peaking while the rest of the league was a bit soft)....
So, I think that saying there was a window of opportunity missed for the Cavs in '09, '10 is pretty valid.
I agree but that wasnt what he was saying.
Re: The "Built Around Him" Excuse
Posted: Wed Jan 9, 2013 4:54 am
by MrBigShot
A team well built around it's star is the difference between the 05-06 Lakers and LBJ's cavs. Granted, LeBron is more unselfish and better at making guys around him better, but ultimately a team has to fit together. A bunch of talent that doesn't fit together won't get much done.
Fit was one of the reasons the 03-04 pistons beat the lakers in the finals that year.
Re: The "Built Around Him" Excuse
Posted: Wed Jan 9, 2013 5:22 pm
by Golabki
MrBigShot wrote:A team well built around it's star is the difference between the 05-06 Lakers and LBJ's cavs. Granted, LeBron is more unselfish and better at making guys around him better, but ultimately a team has to fit together. A bunch of talent that doesn't fit together won't get much done.
Fit was one of the reasons the 03-04 pistons beat the lakers in the finals that year.
05-06 Lakers? I think they are similar to LBJ's cavs.
Both teams had a star, one very good complimentary player (Odom/Varajao) and a bunch of trash that would be fringe NBA players or done in 2 years.