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Bskey wrote:

Jodi wrote:

Bskey wrote:
Yes lets, in no order.

LeBron
Durant
Batum
Melo
Pierce

That's just 5. There are more guys that I would take over him.

Lets forget the players salaries for a second...I respect your opinion but your crazy if you would take Batum or Pierce over Gay...
Lebron
Durant
Melo
Josh Smith(if you consider him a SF)
Gay
Pierce

Why? They are both better. Instead of calling people dumb or crazy try actually making an argument. Gay managed to build a reputation as a star. He's not, despite what his income says.

I can see wanting to take Gay over PP if age is factored though.

Why do I need to make an argument when the stats speak for there self?..Dudley averages like 11ppg and is a role player while Gay averages 18ppg and he's a go-to-guy...If I need to make an argument about that you must not watch basketball or you just don't know the game of basketball...

Batum is no where near better than Gay...Both Batum and Gay FG% are similar and Gay PPG is higher and he plays less minutes...In addition, Batum has never played a full health season since he's been in the league...An argument about Batum vs. Gay is worthless...

Rubberduck wrote:I really doubt you'd want Pierce on your team since he probably only has two years left in the tank.
Batum? I can understand that one, but let's be honest here, this guy hasn't proved himself self yet. Not to mention the injury issues.

Jodi wrote:Batum isn't no where near better than Gay...Both Batum and Gay FG% are similar and Gay PPG is higher and he plays less minutes...An argument about Batum vs. Gay is worthless...

Are you sure about that Jodi? And how has Gay proven himself? By getting that contract?

PPG/RPG/APG
Batum - 16.3/5.5/4.5 - MPG at 38.5
Gay - 17.8/5.8/2.5 - MPG at 36.5

Steals/Blocks/Turnovers
Batum- 1.5/1.2/2.5
Gay - 1.5/0.7/2.4

At face value they are pretty comparable, Gay is a slightly better rebounder and has more points where Batum is a much better assist man and gets almost double the blocks. Factor in Batum's versatility on defense and I would take Batum.

Now if you really want to get into it, you can look at advanced and efficiency stats. Which start to favor Batum even more. Given that he's also younger than Gay, yeah I would take Batum HAPPILY over Gay even if salary wasn't an issue.

Rubberduck wrote:I really doubt you'd want Pierce on your team since he probably only has two years left in the tank.
Batum? I can understand that one, but let's be honest here, this guy hasn't proved himself self yet. Not to mention the injury issues.

What exactly has Gay proven again?

And injury issues? Outside of minor dings that all players get, he's never had anything major that should cause any concern.

Batum is easily a better player than Gay. Much better of an all around player than Gay will ever be.

Rudy Gay is the same player he's been since his 2nd year in the league. He's steady, I'll give him that. But he's shown absolutely ZERO growth since his sophomore season.

I don't understand this trade for Memphis.

Granted Rudy Gay is not a star. If you want to win in the NBA you need a guy who is a scorer. The team is perfectly constructed right now.

is it because they want to shed money?

Similar in that Batum's FG% 3P% FT% are all better similar? Not to mention Batum gets 2 more assists a game then Gay. I'd also argue Batum is a superior defender.

Bskey wrote:
Now if you really want to get into it, you can look at advanced stats. Which start to favor Batum even more. Given that he's also younger than Gay, yeah I would take Batum HAPPILY over Gay even if salary wasn't an issue.

small sample size on Batum. Why not use two full seasons?

Using your logic you'd think that Lin justified his contract.

Bskey wrote:I still have no idea how Gay built up this reputation he seems to have as a star player.

He averaged 20 PPG his second year in the league.

Here's the complete list of guys that have done that in the past 10 years:
LeBron James
Blake Griffin
Dwyane Wade
Kyrie Irving
Kevin Durant
Amare Stoudemire
Derrick Rose
Carmelo Anthony
Rudy Gay

Starting to get it now? Gay isn't bad, but he is probably the worst starter on the grizz. If they can get Dudley + the Pho 1st I'd do it in an instant

Batum is much much much better than Gay. No question.

If Rudy Gay played in the 2011 playoffs, the Grizzlies would have lost that series. Not one GM in this entire league would turn down a Gay for Batum trade. Not one.

Bskey wrote:

Rubberduck wrote:I really doubt you'd want Pierce on your team since he probably only has two years left in the tank.
Batum? I can understand that one, but let's be honest here, this guy hasn't proved himself self yet. Not to mention the injury issues.

Jodi wrote:Batum isn't no where near better than Gay...Both Batum and Gay FG% are similar and Gay PPG is higher and he plays less minutes...An argument about Batum vs. Gay is worthless...

Are you sure about that Jodi? And how has Gay proven himself? By getting that contract?

PPG/RPG/APG
Batum - 16.3/5.5/4.5 - MPG at 38.5
Gay - 17.8/5.8/2.5 - MPG at 36.5

Steals/Blocks/Turnovers
[b]Batum - 1.5/1.2/2.5
Gay[/b] - 1.5/0.7/2.4

At face value they are pretty comparable, Gay is a slightly better rebounder and has more points where Batum is a much better assist man and gets almost double the blocks. Factor in Batum's versatility on defense and I would take Batum.

Now if you really want to get into it, you can look at advanced stats. Which start to favor Batum even more. Given that he's also younger than Gay, yeah I would take Batum HAPPILY over Gay even if salary wasn't an issue.

Not only that, Batum is 2 years younger and has a much more reasonable contract. Gay's contract is around 45 mil over the next 4 years, Gay costs 37 mil over the next 2 years.

Golabki wrote:

Bskey wrote:I still have no idea how Gay built up this reputation he seems to have as a star player.

He averaged 20 PPG his second year in the league.

Here's the complete list of guys that have done that in the past 10 years:
LeBron James
Blake Griffin
Dwyane Wade
Kyrie Irving
Kevin Durant
Amare Stoudemire
Derrick Rose
Carmelo Anthony
Rudy Gay

Starting to get it now? Gay isn't bad, but he is probably the worst starter on the grizz. If they can get Dudley + the Pho 1st I'd do it in an instant

All of those guys had better seasons after averaging 20ppg in their 2nd year. All of them except one.... care to take a guess which?

Golabki wrote:

Bskey wrote:I still have no idea how Gay built up this reputation he seems to have as a star player.

He averaged 20 PPG his second year in the league.

Here's the complete list of guys that have done that in the past 10 years:
LeBron James
Blake Griffin
Dwyane Wade
Kyrie Irving
Kevin Durant
Amare Stoudemire
Derrick Rose
Carmelo Anthony
Rudy Gay

Starting to get it now? Gay isn't bad, but he is probably the worst starter on the grizz. If they can get Dudley + the Pho 1st I'd do it in an instant

I don't think Gay is a bad player. I think he is extremely overpaid and has somehow got people believing he is a star.

DusterBuster wrote:What exactly has Gay proven again?

And injury issues? Outside of minor dings that all players get, he's never had anything major that should cause any concern.

Batum is easily a better player than Gay. Much better of an all around player than Gay will ever be.

Rudy Gay is the same player he's been since his 2nd year in the league. He's steady, I'll give him that. But he's shown absolutely ZERO growth since his sophomore season.

If Rudy Gay is traded to a team like the Suns, Kings, or any lottery team he would average over 20pts game...The Grizzlies system doesn't fit Rudy that's why he hasn't shown any growth...

DusterBuster wrote:

Golabki wrote:

Bskey wrote:I still have no idea how Gay built up this reputation he seems to have as a star player.

He averaged 20 PPG his second year in the league.

Here's the complete list of guys that have done that in the past 10 years:
LeBron James
Blake Griffin
Dwyane Wade
Kyrie Irving
Kevin Durant
Amare Stoudemire
Derrick Rose
Carmelo Anthony
Rudy Gay

Starting to get it now? Gay isn't bad, but he is probably the worst starter on the grizz. If they can get Dudley + the Pho 1st I'd do it in an instant

All of those guys had better seasons after averaging 20ppg in their 2nd year. All of them except one.... care to take a guess which?

I agree Gay isn't a star caliber player... I'm just saying this is where that reputation started. 20 PPG is a magic number of most fans and it got Gay a rep a an elite young scorer early in his career. Since then he hasn't gotten any better, but he hasn't really gotten worse either so the reputation has suck.

DusterBuster wrote:

Golabki wrote:

Bskey wrote:I still have no idea how Gay built up this reputation he seems to have as a star player.

He averaged 20 PPG his second year in the league.

Here's the complete list of guys that have done that in the past 10 years:
LeBron James
Blake Griffin
Dwyane Wade
Kyrie Irving
Kevin Durant
Amare Stoudemire
Derrick Rose
Carmelo Anthony
Rudy Gay

Starting to get it now? Gay isn't bad, but he is probably the worst starter on the grizz. If they can get Dudley + the Pho 1st I'd do it in an instant

All of those guys had better seasons after averaging 20ppg in their 2nd year. All of them except one.... care to take a guess which?

Kyrie so far Id also say Rudy Gays 19.8 ppg season was better - better fg percentage, assists/steals/blocks all up from 2nd season also.

Also Pierce > Rudy Gay. Now and for his career.

mademan wrote:It would be a pretty good trade for memphis. Save money, dudley's an awesome role player and they pick up the lakers pick for an inefficient chucker/mediocre defender Gay.

Chucker? Mediocre defender? Do you watch basketball or just skim through it?

Jodi wrote:Batum is no where near better than Gay...Both Batum and Gay FG% are similar and Gay PPG is higher and he plays less minutes...

Gay's PPG is higher because he jacks up 17 shots a game.

In addition, Batum has never played a full health season since he's been in the league...

Batum played 79 games as a rookie and 80 games in 2010-11. Those both look like pretty healthy seasons to me.

Unless the standard for "full health" is playing all 82 - in which case Rudy Gay has never played a full health season either.

Jodi wrote:Why do I need to make an argument when the stats speak for there self?

TS%
Batum 57.3
Gay 48.4

eFG%
Batum 52.3
Gay 43.9

PER
Batum 17.9
Gay 14.9

WS/48
Batum .130
Gay .103

Off-Def Rating
Batum 112-107 (+5)
Gay 99-99 (+0)

Jodi wrote:Why do I need to make an argument when the stats speak for there self?

They certainly do...

Rubberduck wrote:

Bskey wrote:
Now if you really want to get into it, you can look at advanced stats. Which start to favor Batum even more. Given that he's also younger than Gay, yeah I would take Batum HAPPILY over Gay even if salary wasn't an issue.

small sample size on Batum. Why not use two full seasons?

Using your logic you'd think that Lin justified his contract.

We could factor in last season where Batum was also more efficient if you want.

EDIT: Anyway, I will stop. This thread is about the trade which I think would be horrible for Phoenix. I do NOT think Gay is a bad player, he is just not worth that contract.

Again small sample size, post those of atleast two full seasons

DusterBuster wrote:

Golabki wrote:

Bskey wrote:I still have no idea how Gay built up this reputation he seems to have as a star player.

He averaged 20 PPG his second year in the league.

Here's the complete list of guys that have done that in the past 10 years:
LeBron James
Blake Griffin
Dwyane Wade
Kyrie Irving
Kevin Durant
Amare Stoudemire
Derrick Rose
Carmelo Anthony
Rudy Gay

Starting to get it now? Gay isn't bad, but he is probably the worst starter on the grizz. If they can get Dudley + the Pho 1st I'd do it in an instant

All of those guys had better seasons after averaging 20ppg in their 2nd year. All of them except one.... care to take a guess which?

Rookies who averaged 20/5/5
Oscar Robertson
Michael Jordan
Lebron James
Tyreke Evans

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etuPF1yJRzg[/youtube]

BubbaTee wrote:

Jodi wrote:Batum is no where near better than Gay...Both Batum and Gay FG% are similar and Gay PPG is higher and he plays less minutes...

Gay's PPG is higher because he jacks up 17 shots a game.

In addition, Batum has never played a full health season since he's been in the league...

Batum played 79 games as a rookie and 80 games in 2010-11. Those both look like pretty healthy seasons to me.

Unless the standard for "full health" is playing all 82 - in which case Rudy Gay has never played a full health season either.

Jodi wrote:Why do I need to make an argument when the stats speak for there self?

TS%
Batum 57.3
Gay 48.4

eFG%
Batum 52.3
Gay 43.9

PER
Batum 17.9
Gay 14.9

WS/48
Batum .130
Gay .103

Off-Def Rating
Batum 112-107 (+5)
Gay 99-99 (+0)

Jodi wrote:Why do I need to make an argument when the stats speak for there self?

They certainly do...

Touche' Mr. Tee...