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Does Brooklyn with Rudy Gay make them a contender?

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Post#31 Re: Does Brooklyn with Rudy Gay make them a c
Tue Jan 8, 2013 10:34 pm by Mk0

TheToothFairy wrote:Wait. I already though Brooklyn were already contenders?


:lol: :lol:

So.. uh.. Are the Nets are trying to absorb every awful contract in the league. Rudy will make 19mil in 2 years. Why would you do this to yourself?
In regards to Nerlens Noel being traded on draft night for Jrue Holiday.
Ax2SG wrote:How in hell is Noel involved in a trade that neither team has a top 3 pick? What if Cleveland drafts Noel with the 1st?

EDIT: HOLY ****, I FORGOT THE DRAFT WAS TODAY GUYS
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Post#32 Re: Does Brooklyn with Rudy Gay make them a c
Tue Jan 8, 2013 10:36 pm by Beardman

Might become worse.
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Post#33 Re: Does Brooklyn with Rudy Gay make them a c
Tue Jan 8, 2013 10:43 pm by Krodis

The thought of the Nets paying THAT starting lineup all that money is HILARIOUS.
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Post#34 Re: Does Brooklyn with Rudy Gay make them a c
Tue Jan 8, 2013 10:46 pm by Ronito

The Nets are better off with Wallace than Gay. I don't want Rudy Gay.
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Post#35 Re: Does Brooklyn with Rudy Gay make them a c
Tue Jan 8, 2013 10:54 pm by ClayDavis

gerald wallace is one of the few guys in the league who could play the 4, but wouldnt they have to include him in the deal?
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Post#36 Re: Does Brooklyn with Rudy Gay make them a c
Tue Jan 8, 2013 11:18 pm by Marvin Martian

DusterBuster wrote:
nickforthreee wrote:can score at will, put the team on his back, come up big in clutch moments, completely take over a game. parsons is a role player. a good one yes, but a role player.


Besides that one Toronto game, what other "clutch moments" has Rudy ever had?

I saw him during a tight game with the Blazers last week and he completely disappeared when the game was close late. He also never "took the game over".

I don't know what player you're watching, but he's not the Rudy Gay I've ever seen.


He took over the end of the DEN game a couple weeks back by scoring a couple of critical buckets when the game was close. The assertion that Parsons is better than Gay is ridiculous. Who cares how much he is getting paid? So many players are getting max contracts these days i can't see how anyone can make an underlying assumption that max contract = max performance.

Back on topic Gay is around 6-9 so he should be able to play the 4 and have a semi melo-like impact on the floor.
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Post#37 Re: Does Brooklyn with Rudy Gay make them a c
Tue Jan 8, 2013 11:23 pm by Krodis

Parsons is a similar rebounder, better passer, better defender, and better shooter than Gay. He's scoring 14 on decent efficiency to Gay's 18 on miserable efficiency.

Seriously, 18 points on sub- .500 TS%. That's just miserable. It's not even Iverson or Monta Ellis volume chucking. It's 17.8 points a game!
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Post#38 Re: Does Brooklyn with Rudy Gay make them a c
Tue Jan 8, 2013 11:38 pm by Doctor MJ

nickforthreee wrote:im not sure if it would make them a contender but i think they would definitely be an elite team with him. they need a go to scorer and joe johnson just aint cuttin it.

PG: D-Will
SG: JJ
SF: Rudy
PF: Hump
C: Lopez

thats a lineup that can make some noise. hump should get traded for someone better tho but he can rebound and the other 4 are solid even tho dwill isnt great this year


Gay's overrated in basically the exact same way Johnson was. This would be making almost exactly the same mistake over again.
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Post#39 Re: Does Brooklyn with Rudy Gay make them a c
Wed Jan 9, 2013 9:02 am by PetroNet

Mk0 wrote:
TheToothFairy wrote:Wait. I already though Brooklyn were already contenders?


:lol: :lol:

So.. uh.. Are the Nets are trying to absorb every awful contract in the league. Rudy will make 19mil in 2 years. Why would you do this to yourself?


what difference does it make how much rudy gay makes? he expires in 3 years. the nets are over the cap/tax for the next 4 years whether gay makes 19m or the league minimum
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Post#40 Re: Does Brooklyn with Rudy Gay make them a c
Wed Jan 9, 2013 9:03 am by PetroNet

Doctor MJ wrote:
nickforthreee wrote:im not sure if it would make them a contender but i think they would definitely be an elite team with him. they need a go to scorer and joe johnson just aint cuttin it.

PG: D-Will
SG: JJ
SF: Rudy
PF: Hump
C: Lopez

thats a lineup that can make some noise. hump should get traded for someone better tho but he can rebound and the other 4 are solid even tho dwill isnt great this year


Gay's overrated in basically the exact same way Johnson was. This would be making almost exactly the same mistake over again.



im not sure joe johnson was a mistake. id rather have:

Joe Johnson, and be over the cap for the next 4 years.

then

Gaines, Morrow, Petro, late first rounder and be over the cap for the next 4 years.
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Post#41 Re: Does Brooklyn with Rudy Gay make them a c
Wed Jan 9, 2013 9:10 am by phx#7

DusterBuster wrote:Why is Rudy Gay so polarizing? People either insanely overrate him or think he's pure trash.

The truth is right in the middle. He's a solid player, but he's not good enough to change a teams fortunes. He's a ideal 3rd option on a team with 2 superstars. That's not trash, but he's not a star either.


The people who think he's trash only feel that way because of his contract. If he were making half of what he is I think most people would think well of him. However with him making 18mil per and producing the way he is I certainly view him as a net negative.
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Post#42 Re: Does Brooklyn with Rudy Gay make them a c
Wed Jan 9, 2013 9:28 am by ricochet

nickforthreee wrote:
Darain wrote:How about the other games where he shoots his team out of games by not passing it to Randolph?


im not a grizz fan and really dont watch them much but ive never seen rudy gay as a ballhog. he has a bad shot selection sometimes but to say that he is a terrible player and that roleplayers are better than him is laughable.


/Discussion

He sucks as the main option and is not worth his contract.
Gay will make the Nets worse. Zbo would make them a contender.
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Post#43 Re: Does Brooklyn with Rudy Gay make them a c
Wed Jan 9, 2013 9:37 am by jjscap

Gay is a knucklehead with no idea what's he's doing on the court. Players like this make their team worse no matter their athletic abilities.
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Post#44 Re: Does Brooklyn with Rudy Gay make them a c
Wed Jan 9, 2013 9:47 am by ricochet

Marvin Martian wrote:
He took over the end of the DEN game a couple weeks back by scoring a couple of critical buckets when the game was close. The assertion that Parsons is better than Gay is ridiculous. Who cares how much he is getting paid? So many players are getting max contracts these days i can't see how anyone can make an underlying assumption that max contract = max performance.

Back on topic Gay is around 6-9 so he should be able to play the 4 and have a semi melo-like impact on the floor.


What? Would you prefer a crack whore from the streets for 10,000$ or a Victoria's Secret model?

Owners care. Fans care.
18 mil.. hmmm.. lets see who else makes that.. LeBron you say..
Lets say he was making 7-8 mil i.e What he is worth. The 10 mil they save + whatever they can get for some other players etc and they could've hypothetically traded for Harden. that would've put them over the top. Rudy Gay does not put them over the top. In-fact they are unable to get over the hump because of him.
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Post#45 Re: Does Brooklyn with Rudy Gay make them a c
Wed Jan 9, 2013 10:09 am by qotsa

#marswag #thenextjasonterry
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Post#46 Re: Does Brooklyn with Rudy Gay make them a c
Wed Jan 9, 2013 10:16 am by mid-post

phx#7 wrote:The people who think he's trash only feel that way because of his contract. If he were making half of what he is I think most people would think well of him. However with him making 18mil per and producing the way he is I certainly view him as a net negative.


I think that's fair, but it also needs to be pointed out that he's in a career low shooting slump right now. So you have people piling on trying to claim Nicolas Batum is better. I doubt he ever lives up to the contract, but it only has a couple more years on it, so as a Grizz fan I'm willing to not be too angry about it. I sort of think of it as small market club loyalty tax to get him to stick around after his contract is up. As messed up as it is, small markets do have to overpay to retain popular players, and the decision to sign him was as much a marketing thing for the city as it was for basketball reasons. So if he just bounces after getting a fair offer at the end of this contract, I'll be pissed.

Doctor MJ wrote:Gay's overrated in basically the exact same way Johnson was. This would be making almost exactly the same mistake over again.

This I agree with. But Johnson's contract is still worse. 8-)
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Post#47 Re: Does Brooklyn with Rudy Gay make them a c
Wed Jan 9, 2013 10:35 am by Doctor MJ

PetroNet wrote:im not sure joe johnson was a mistake. id rather have:

Joe Johnson, and be over the cap for the next 4 years.

then

Gaines, Morrow, Petro, late first rounder and be over the cap for the next 4 years.


If I didn't know better, I'd think that your statement meant that the team just swapped a bunch of scrubs for a greater talent without it costing them any more money. You know that's not the case right?

So I'm guessing you're saying, "Hey our owner is rich, he doesn't care that the team is spending almost $30 mill more than last year and the team still is a long ways from winning a title. He just wants the best team possible." It's conceivable that that's true because of the move to Brooklyn - that the most important thing is what could make the team most respectable as a first impression to the new fan base.

Make no mistake though: The Nets now will have a far more difficult time making significant changes to their roster, and this means that we're likely going to see another New York team paying ridiculous amounts of money for a long time without much to show for it. Granted these Nets are a lot better than the Isiah Knicks, but that's not saying that much. If your goal is to win championships, you don't spend this kind of money until you have the opportunity to give it to the right guys. Simple as that.
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Post#48 Re: Does Brooklyn with Rudy Gay make them a c
Wed Jan 9, 2013 1:51 pm by og15

nickforthreee wrote:
Darain wrote:
nickforthreee wrote:
yup hes terrible youre right. you are another one of those advanced stats guys who think chandler parsons is better than rudy gay.


Why Does Rudy gay do better than Chandler Parsons, seriosuly


can score at will, put the team on his back, come up big in clutch moments, completely take over a game. parsons is a role player. a good one yes, but a role player.

I always wonder how "scoring at will" is defined because I'm not necessarily sure that being able to shoot over people because of length is the ability to score at will. It's the ability to jack up shots at will, but if they aren't going in at a high rate, why do we consider that scoring at will? Just something I've wondered.

Also this is Rudy Gay's worst offensive season in a long time, so yes, Parsons has been just as good as him offensively (okay, better), but I'm not sure what advanced stats say he is better. He's probably a better fit for the Grizzlies this season though because Rudy has been bad, but that's different than straight up being a better player. He's overall as good as the worst version of Rudy Gay that we've seen since what, 08-09? But that's not a fair comparison of who's "better", though it could work for who is playing better so far this year.


mid-post wrote:
phx#7 wrote:The people who think he's trash only feel that way because of his contract. If he were making half of what he is I think most people would think well of him. However with him making 18mil per and producing the way he is I certainly view him as a net negative.


I think that's fair, but it also needs to be pointed out that he's in a career low shooting slump right now. So you have people piling on trying to claim Nicolas Batum is better. I doubt he ever lives up to the contract, but it only has a couple more years on it, so as a Grizz fan I'm willing to not be too angry about it. I sort of think of it as small market club loyalty tax to get him to stick around after his contract is up. As messed up as it is, small markets do have to overpay to retain popular players, and the decision to sign him was as much a marketing thing for the city as it was for basketball reasons. So if he just bounces after getting a fair offer at the end of this contract, I'll be pissed.

Doctor MJ wrote:Gay's overrated in basically the exact same way Johnson was. This would be making almost exactly the same mistake over again.

This I agree with. But Johnson's contract is still worse. 8-)
While Parsons I don't see any real argument for being better, Batum is a different story. I could see one being made here because Batum I feel is a little better putting the ball on the floor and getting to the basket, and also as a defender (acknowledging that he has been overrated on defense). Rudy Gay's scoring ability has always been slightly overrated. He's been one of those fake 20 PPG scorers that can give you 20 PPG in about 40 minutes, but per 36 minutes, he's been an 18 PPG guy for 5 seasons now on .527 TS%. He rebounds well, but the rest of his all-round game isn't impressive. Batum has been a 16 PPG scorer per 36 minutes the past two seasons on .574 TS%, and this season he's at 15-5-4 per 36 and making 2.4/6.5 three's and only gets to the line a little less.

Batum is a more positive player on offense outside of the ability to isolate one on one and shoot over defenders, and it's not like Gay is really efficient at doing that. Over multiple games, the guy who is more efficient wins you more games even though in a singular one possession event, if you put both Gay and Batum in isolation to win a game, Gay can maybe get more shots over his defender. Sadly too many NBA fans think that's the most important thing, it has it's importance, but it isn't near where some place it. If you then think that Batum is better defensively, then his current season is as good or better than anything Rudy has done even though he's scoring less.
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Post#49 Re: Does Brooklyn with Rudy Gay make them a c
Wed Jan 9, 2013 1:56 pm by vincecarter4pres

DusterBuster wrote:Why is Rudy Gay so polarizing? People either insanely overrate him or think he's pure trash.

The truth is right in the middle. He's a solid player, but he's not good enough to change a teams fortunes. He's a ideal 3rd option on a team with 2 superstars. That's not trash, but he's not a star either.

I mainly agree with this.
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Post#50 Re: Does Brooklyn with Rudy Gay make them a c
Wed Jan 9, 2013 2:01 pm by Gibby

Nope, not even close. Might make it into the 2nd rd
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