Grizzlies looking to blow it up?

[mid-post]

Fair enough, wasn't trying to question your fanhood, just that the Calderon idea was maybe a result of the Spanish in you and wanted to bust your chops a little. But I just have serious doubts on Calderon, who knows, maybe I'm just being biased by the Toronto fans.

But I think you're right that we need a perimeter option that can theoretically do what you're saying Calderon can do. As an example, Greivis Vazquez was huge for us in spots back when he was on the team, so I think you're definitely on to something. But you need something more solid and consistent than that if you're dumping Gay entirely and still hoping to be a contender, because you need that perimeter threat that can really stabilize or take over the offense for extended periods of time when the post isn't working. Gay has shown he can do that.

[Marvin Martian]

Shipping out Rudy Gay for a guy like Jared Dudley makes sense. On top of resolving cap issues they add a equally if not better defensive player, and the main thing is they can space the floor a lot better with his three point shooting.

Trading Z Bo doesn't make sense though because they're basically giving up their identity (physical, paint oriented offense). I doubt they'll get anyone of equal talent. Team is playing good basketball thus far, you gotta let the season play out before considering getting rid of Z Bo.

So who is going to bail out the grizz with a critical basket? 2 years ago it was OJ Mayo, not Z-bo making big plays when the offense broke down. He's gone. Now it's Gay. People think he should be gone during the best start in franchise history.

Z-bo is not 2010 Dirk or Prime Kevin Garnett. He gets shut down pretty easily by long athletic big men like Javale McGee. Plus if he doesn't have position in the low block, he isn't a threat to score or get rebounds.

[NashtyNas]

Looks to me like they're trying to get better

EXACTLY.
Common logic tells you, production per dollar wise, Rudy Gay is atrocious.
The guy is making nearly $17million this season and he`s averaging 17PP on a whopping 40% from the field!
Replacing such production is not hard, AT ALL, and it can be replaced for much cheaper.

Luol Deng - 17 PPG, 43%, 10x the defender Gay wishes to be - $12million
Danny Granger - 19PPG, 42% - $13million
Danillo Gallinari - 16PPG, 40% - $9million
Andrei Kirilenko - 14PPG, 52% - $9million

Gay is paid like LeBron, Durant and Melo, but produces more in line with what Danny Granger and Andrei Kirilenko bring to the table, although Kirilenko is also a far greater defender than Gay.

Gay should be paid somewhere between half of what he's paid and a few million more than it, but he's paid twice what he truly deserves. Memphis would be JUST fine if they trade him for the right pieces; looks like they're doing that if they send him to the Suns for Dudley +, because Dudley would be a very capable replacement. He's shooting far less than Gay does, but putting up 12PPG on higher efficiency and better defense, and comes for less than 1/4th the price!

That's the kind of move SMART teams make. Dumping your overvalued, underproductive "star" player for a underpaid, highly productive role player.

[teamgrizz]

Looks to me like they're trying to get better

That's the kind of move SMART teams make. Dumping your overvalued, underproductive "star" player for a underpaid, highly productive role player.

Smart teams don't trade away their top 3 player midseason when they are having the best season in franchise history and competing for a #1 seed in a wide open Western Conference. They wait til the offseason...

[Felixano]

Looks to me like they're trying to get better

That's the kind of move SMART teams make. Dumping your overvalued, underproductive "star" player for a underpaid, highly productive role player.

Smart teams don't trade away their top 3 player midseason when they are having the best season in franchise history and competing for a #1 seed in a wide open Western Conference. They wait til the offseason...

No, they don't wait till the offseason. Gay isn't a necessity on the team. You give most of his 16 shots a game to the highly-efficient Jared Dudley and you lose nothing essentially. Zach Randolph has also proven to be more effective than Gay as a closer anyway, so it's not like there's a huge dropoff there. This would also mean more touches for Memhpis' bigs which is a good thing for the team.

Gay is one of the most overrated players in the NBA right now. I love how all the Raptors fans are clamoring to trade DeMar for him, when DeMar has been the BETTER PLAYER this season, is younger and costs 1/2 as much.

[ricochet]

That's the kind of move SMART teams make. Dumping your overvalued, underproductive "star" player for a underpaid, highly productive role player.

Smart teams don't trade away their top 3 player midseason when they are having the best season in franchise history and competing for a #1 seed in a wide open Western Conference. They wait til the offseason...

No, they don't wait till the offseason. Gay isn't a necessity on the team. You give most of his 16 shots a game to the highly-efficient Jared Dudley and you lose nothing essentially. Zach Randolph has also proven to be more effective than Gay as a closer anyway, so it's not like there's a huge dropoff there. This would also mean more touches for Memhpis' bigs which is a good thing for the team.

Gay is one of the most overrated players in the NBA right now. I love how all the Raptors fans are clamoring to trade DeMar for him, when DeMar has been the BETTER PLAYER this season, is younger and costs 1/2 as much.

You are highly mistaken if you think Jared Dudley will get the job done. I agree completely that Gay is not worth the contract and an upgrade is necessary for them to be the real deal/ carry them over other super teams.

However, the fact is there are very few players that fit that description. They need a star.. by that I mean, one who can actually take over games/Come up clutch/Carry the team when others suck etc..
In-short they need someone like a LeBron/Durant/Melo/Pierce/Harden at that spot to take them over the hump. Other players, who may be slightly better than Gay won't get the job done. Sure, they'll win regular season games and go to the second round in the playoffs. After that, it's going to get real tough.

[LarsV8]

Smart teams don't trade away their top 3 player midseason when they are having the best season in franchise history and competing for a #1 seed in a wide open Western Conference. They wait til the offseason...

Your success has little to do with Gay, in fact, most would argue it is in spite of his poor play.

[GeneralNbaFan]

Smart teams don't trade away their top 3 player midseason when they are having the best season in franchise history and competing for a #1 seed in a wide open Western Conference. They wait til the offseason...

Your success has little to do with Gay, in fact, most would argue it is in spite of his poor play.

He is a top 3 player...you dont trade him for basketball reasons...there is no way..... especially not if you have a legit chance to reach the finals.... and lol at Dudley... Gay is a top 4-6 SF in the league...you dont trade him for an average player..... ans he is a good closer.... I dont care what FG this guy has, because all number 1 option have to take the last shots/ contested shots, so you cant compare them to non number 1 options!

[mid-post]

Your success has little to do with Gay, in fact, most would argue it is in spite of his poor play.

You don't know what you're talking about, and you obviously don't understand the role he's played for the team (as the top scorer and perimeter threat) for the past four seasons.

[LarsV8]

He is a top 3 player...you dont trade him for basketball reasons...there is no way..... especially not if you have a legit chance to reach the finals.... and lol at Dudley... Gay is a top 4-6 SF in the league...you dont trade him for an average player..... ans he is a good closer.... I dont care what FG this guy has, because all number 1 option have to take the last shots/ contested shots, so you cant compare them to non number 1 options!

You keep saying he is a top 3 player like it means something, it doesn't. Gay is not a top 4-6 SF in this league, he just isn't. His talent and athleticism is off the charts. His production however, is below average.

This is what gets lost on people in regard to last second shots. You don't need them unless the game is close. I guarantee you if a good role player was in place of a terrible "star" the game wouldn't have even needed a last second shot. For reference, check out his performance in the games he hit game winners in:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/box ... 60BOS.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/box ... 10MEM.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/box ... 20MEM.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/box ... 00MEM.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/box ... 80PHO.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/box ... 40TOR.html

Most of these, he is mediocre at best. And your argument that he has to take contested shots is silly. The whole point of an offense is too get open shots. If he is taking bad or contested shots because he is primarily creating offense, that might make sense, but he isn't a shot creater. If the offense isn't getting open shots, then its not a good offense, which is probably one of the reasons why Memphis has such a bad offense. They would of been much better off keeping Mayo, who is effecient and trading Gay for better pieces.

You don't know what you're talking about, and you obviously don't understand the role he's played for the team (as the top scorer and perimeter threat) for the past four seasons.

Top scorer on a bad offense doesn't mean much too me.

Even Memphis fans are starting to see it:

http://boards.grizzliesonline.com/index ... opic=14764

[Frank Mulely]

needs more stromile swift

[NashtyNas]

Smart teams don't trade away their top 3 player midseason when they are having the best season in franchise history and competing for a #1 seed in a wide open Western Conference. They wait til the offseason...

Your success has little to do with Gay, in fact, most would argue it is in spite of his poor play.

He is a top 3 player...you dont trade him for basketball reasons...there is no way..... especially not if you have a legit chance to reach the finals.... and lol at Dudley... Gay is a top 4-6 SF in the league...you dont trade him for an average player..... ans he is a good closer.... I dont care what FG this guy has, because all number 1 option have to take the last shots/ contested shots, so you cant compare them to non number 1 options!

You're obviously delusional. Gay is NOT a top-3 player whatsoever, that's a joke.
In fact, he's not even top 3 on the Grizzlies! Randolph, Gasol and Conley are far more important to the team than the one-dimensional, inefficient scoring that Gay provides.

In fact, not only will a good role player like Dudley be an adequate replacement, it would allow the Grizzlies to further improve the team by being about $9mil under the lux tax, allowing them to pursue other players as go-to scorers, either via trade or FA. It's not hard to find streaky shooters willing to take the last shot, I'm pretty sure stats will suggest Lou fricking Williams is a better closer than Rudy Gay.

[Sark]

This is why stars don't want to go to franchises with cheap owners. These owners are more worried about the bottom line than they are about winning.

[Ming Kong!]

They are just straight up idiots for signing Gay to that ridiculous contract. Rudy Gay was never an All-Star, a career high 17.8 PER doesn't scream pay the man the MAX to me. The guy doesn't deserve a penny over $10M/year IMO.

[DusterBuster]

They are just straight up idiots for signing Gay to that ridiculous contract. Rudy Gay was never an All-Star, a career high 17.8 PER doesn't scream pay the man the MAX to me. The guy doesn't deserve a penny over $10M/year IMO.

What's crazy is that they signed him to that deal with NO COMPETITION. He was a RFA when they gave him that contract and he didn't get a max offer from another team that they were forced to match. They just handed him the max contract, they didn't let the market set his value. That's about as dumb a move as you can make. At least if he goes out and gets a max offer and you match, you can say you had no choice and you we're going to lose him for nothing. With Gay, they paid the premium without even being forced to do so.

[Ming Kong!]

There may have been a desperate team or two willing to pay Gay for the Max, but when you just made it past the Spurs without him, does he really deserve the MAX?

[Mamba Mentality]

Shipping out Rudy Gay for a guy like Jared Dudley makes sense. On top of resolving cap issues they add a equally if not better defensive player, and the main thing is they can space the floor a lot better with his three point shooting.

Trading Z Bo doesn't make sense though because they're basically giving up their identity (physical, paint oriented offense). I doubt they'll get anyone of equal talent. Team is playing good basketball thus far, you gotta let the season play out before considering getting rid of Z Bo.

So who is going to bail out the grizz with a critical basket? 2 years ago it was OJ Mayo, not Z-bo making big plays when the offense broke down. He's gone. Now it's Gay. People think he should be gone during the best start in franchise history.

Z-bo is not 2010 Dirk or Prime Kevin Garnett. He gets shut down pretty easily by long athletic big men like Javale McGee. Plus if he doesn't have position in the low block, he isn't a threat to score or get rebounds.

Z Bo can extend his game to about 15 feet, but he just chooses to play more on the low block because he's a pitbull. He plays low to the ground and knows how to use his wide frame to create separation and make up for the lack of athleticism.

I don't know what you mean by "he gets shut down pretty easily". Just two seasons ago people were labeling this guy as the best pf in basketball. He dominated Tim Duncan and the Spurs in the 2010-11 quarterfinals, and the athletic Thunder in the conference semifinals. He made a countless number of big shots in those games and was virtually unstoppable at times. I'm not saying he's a go to guy but he's certainly not a bad option when games are tight. He was injured almost all of last season so I feel like he has gone under the radar once again, but he's putting up a respectable 17 and 12 this season. He has as big of a hand as anyone in the Grizzles turnaround.

Rudy Gay isn't as clutch as you're making him out to be. As of the 2011-12 season, Tony Allen is more clutch per 48 minutes. That should just put things into perspective.

[CB-Blazer]

Maybe they realized that Gay has always been vastly overrated and not worth the moolah?

[sisibilio]

They aren't trying to blow it up, they are desperately trying to get under the tax.

In order to do so, one of Connely, Gay, Gasol or Zbo has to go.

If they can't find takers for Zbo or Gay, expect Gasol rumors to pop up next.

Gasol is going nowhere.

What I find strange is that if they're desperate to get under the tax, there are easier ways to do that. The Luxury Tax threshold is 70 mil, they are at 74 mil. It seems strange that they can't find a way to cut salary in other ways.

They can, for this season at least, but going forward it's almost impossible mantainng the balance keeping those four contracts in the books.
So my guess is that they keep trying to find a good trade for either Gay or Randolph now, and if they don't really like what's been offered then make a minor move involving Speights or Bayless and test the market again in the offseason.

[Knicks_Fan2]

There may have been a desperate team or two willing to pay Gay for the Max, but when you just made it past the Spurs without him, does he really deserve the MAX?

They signed Gay to the max the offseason before they beat the Spurs.