Wilt Chamberlain averaged 37 and 27 as a Rookie

[LakerLegend]

Ignoring everything about pace, era etc. look at Wilt's numbers before and after they expanded the lane from 12 to 16 feet.

BTW Baylor averaged 30/16 that year.

[Doctor MJ]

sooooooo....which is your greatest "gaudy" scoring game in history?

Im talking 60s and up

ftr I'll absolutely downplay Wilt's 100 point game, but I consider Kobe's 81 point game to be probably the best single game in history.

The negative on it is that it happened in some random game in the regular season. If Kobe could do things like this regularly in the playoffs he'd be a serious GOAT candidate, as it is, he's just an all-timer who has a game that can run really hot/cold without any real control.

[TwentyOne920]

How would Wilt do today with 3 seconds rules, a 3 point line, a drastically slower pace, and vastly improved offensive and defensive schemes?

Just curious.

[Damon_3388]

Aside from Wilt, there were only 15 other players in the entire league in 1959-60 who were 6'9" and above, and just one other 7-footer. In Wilt's final year (1972-73), there was still just 46 players in the league 6'9" and above, and just six other 7-footers. 40 years on from Wilt's NBA retirement, there is 173 players in the league 6'9" and above, and 34 of those are 7-footers.

Not saying it was all his size, but you put someone that big with the type of athleticism and strength he had too in there against guys who are significantly smaller, and he's going to dominate regardless.

Dude, I'm not one trying to defend Wilt's performance here, but the average height has barely changed since Wilt's time. You list X number of players, but there were only 8 teams. You talk about 7 footers, but the league is dominated by guys under 7 feet even at the center position today.

It's interesting because you basically just see his impact back then as a given, which it wasn't. You underrate the quality of the players at the time and partly as a result of that you overestimate what Wilt achieved against them.

Well take the numbers I provided as averages then:

1959-60 - 2 players per team 6'9" plus
1972-73 - 2.71 players per team 6'9" plus
2012-13 - 5.77 players per team 6'9" plus

Taller players (6'9"+) are far more common in the NBA now than they were in Wilt's era, any way you slice it.

[lorak]

Barely? Since when improve from dead last to average/above average is barely?
Warriors
1959 103.3 PPG (7th of 8), .381 eFG (8th)
1960 118.6 PPG (3rd), .409 eFG (6th)

What the heck dude. You've been in all of these projects over on the PC board. Even if you don't agree with things like ElGee's assessments of ORtg, it's hard to imagine you don't know what I'm talking about, and I can't even believe that you used raw PPG to throw in "above average" as a possibility. You yourself have done things far more sophisticated than that in data analysis

For everyone else, and I suppose you too DS, here's the RPOY thread from that year. Look for ElGee's post where he gives his estimates.

Sure I know about that, but estimations based on data from two decades later are worthless when we want to evaluate so different league like late 50s/early 60s. For example we have NO IDEA about amount of TOV and ORB teams generated back then. Look, it's hard to believe team played faster after adding 7-1 player - and higher pace is the only way to explain such big PPG (and FG%) improvement without similarly big ortg improvement. We also know Wilt was high TOV player but also GOAT offensive rebounder. However his TOVs were probably higher later in his career when he focused more on passing, while his offensive rebounding skill was even greater during early 60s, when his physical advantage over rest of the league was bigger. So even when Warriors missed shots, they had Wilt who rebounded and made basket. That's still one possession, but estimations would undervalue it, because they "don't know" how great offensive rebounder Wilt was. That's how I see it - Wilt improved Warriors FG%, but because of his offensive rebounding their PPG (and ortg) improved by even higher margin.

[adjacent2bench]

How would Wilt do today with 3 seconds rules, a 3 point line, a drastically slower pace, and vastly improved offensive and defensive schemes?

Just curious.

Gotta remember it was because of Wilt's dominance that a lot of rules were changed to limit the big man's game.

[Frank Mulely]

Wilt played Russell in 142 games. He averaged 28.7 pts and 28.7 rebounds.


Praise be to the most high.

I only saw Wilt in person once, but saw him a lot on TV...back in the day. It was a somewhat different game but the guy had MAJOR talents. A lot of what became "textbook skills" for a big....Wilt invented.
Later in his career...Wilt DID face more talented bigs,like Walt Bellamy,a young Kareem, and the overall level of the NBA, the tactics...improved, so the numbers were less extreme. Check out the first 5 yr of Oscar Robertson's career. While the Big O did average a Triple Double one year...if you combine the stats...he actually averaged a triple double his first 5 years. Defenders got away with fewer bumps,grabs,hand checks etc. There was just "man on man". While there were some VERY good players...the talent wasn't as deep or as athletic.

Unce old rem, tell us what it was like before flush toilets and refrigeration

[Ito]

Wilt would average like 20 and 14 in today's game.. thats if he really did have the talent and it wasn't all because how pathetic basketball was... Anybody that thinks Wilt would average those ridiculous stats in today's league is definitely on that good kush and achohol


lebron would adverage 40 20 20 back then... kobe would average 81 ppg for a whole season

[Darain]

How would Wilt do today with 3 seconds rules, a 3 point line, a drastically slower pace, and vastly improved offensive and defensive schemes?

Just curious.

Exactly what i said on the first page

[WhateverBro]

Wilt would average like 20 and 14 in today's game.. thats if he really did have the talent and it wasn't all because how pathetic basketball was... Anybody that thinks Wilt would average those ridiculous stats in today's league is definitely on that good kush and achohol


lebron would adverage 40 20 20 back then... kobe would average 81 ppg for a whole season

No one believes that he would close to the freak numbers he posted back in his days but 20 / 14 is an incredibly low ceiling for someone his size and with his athletic ability.

[Beard]

FYI: The three second rule was created due to George Mikan, so that rule did exist during Wilt's time.

Here's a quick interesting read:
http://www.school-for-champions.com/spo ... hanges.htm

[Laimbeer]

Bill Russel plan was to let Wilt be dominant and shut down the rest of his teammates, it was effective since he was 7-1 in playoff series vs Wilt

Pretty convenient seeing how he was guarding Wilt.

Yup, that lazy Russell. Loafing about while his teammates did all the work.

More sincerely - Darain's comment isn't right. There were times Russell assigned Wilt to someone else, but during Wilt's scoring prime Russell was known for making Wilt score a good amount less than normal in addition to having major impact on the rest of the team.

As you may know from the PC forum, I'm a Russell slappy and consider him the co-GOAT. Just thought it was odd to say an indivdual player had made a decision to let his guy go off and shut down everybody else. It seems to imply he let Wilt score more by focusing on the other four guys and he could have closed Wilt down one-on-one had he focused on him.

[adjacent2bench]

FYI: The three second rule was created due to George Mikan, so that rule did exist during Wilt's time.

Here's a quick interesting read:
http://www.school-for-champions.com/spo ... hanges.htm

Which makes his dominance even more unbelievable.

Nice read btw.

[og15]

Aside from Wilt, there were only 15 other players in the entire league in 1959-60 who were 6'9" and above, and just one other 7-footer. In Wilt's final year (1972-73), there was still just 46 players in the league 6'9" and above, and just six other 7-footers. 40 years on from Wilt's NBA retirement, there is 173 players in the league 6'9" and above, and 34 of those are 7-footers.

Not saying it was all his size, but you put someone that big with the type of athleticism and strength he had too in there against guys who are significantly smaller, and he's going to dominate regardless.

Dude, I'm not one trying to defend Wilt's performance here, but the average height has barely changed since Wilt's time. You list X number of players, but there were only 8 teams. You talk about 7 footers, but the league is dominated by guys under 7 feet even at the center position today.

It's interesting because you basically just see his impact back then as a given, which it wasn't. You underrate the quality of the players at the time and partly as a result of that you overestimate what Wilt achieved against them.

Well take the numbers I provided as averages then:

1959-60 - 2 players per team 6'9" plus
1972-73 - 2.71 players per team 6'9" plus
2012-13 - 5.77 players per team 6'9" plus

Taller players (6'9"+) are far more common in the NBA now than they were in Wilt's era, any way you slice it.

Just a warning, this might be due to players being listed a little taller than they actually are now as opposed to before

[hokageinfamus]

He would still be a dominant player today he's one of those guys whose abilities transcend eras. In 20 years time MJ and Kobe will be called scrubs by some because of a perceived lack of talent in their eras.

[og15]

We have too much non grainy video evidence for that to happen, and no reasonable thinks Wilt is a scrub

[Manuel Calavera]

Just a warning, this might be due to players being listed a little taller than they actually are now as opposed to before

It is. Players back then were measured barefoot while today's players are measured in shoes.

And I shouldn't imply that all players were measured this way, because there is no standard in how NBA players are measured (the NBA doesn't measure them officially). At best today's players are slightly exaggerated, at worst it's as many as 2-3 inches per player.

[nolunch]

If 6'5 Elgin Baylor can average 19.8 rpg in 60's, Wilt should average 30 rpg.

[[GR]]

Quick thought:

Many downplay Wilts era and ridiculous stats but refuse to give props to scoring 81 in this era. If Wilt is downplayed that means Kobe is next in line with highest scoring game. People just don't like Kobe I guess.
BTW I'm a Knicks fan not a Laker Homer

They also refuse to acknowledge perimeter players playing in an easier era to score.

sooooooo....which is your greatest "gaudy" scoring game in history?

Im talking 60s and up

I don't know. I wasn't too impressed by Kobe's 81 either.

[Chronz]

How did a 7 foot 2 player with a 50 inch vertical and enough strength/courage to beat up a mountain lion shoot 46% in his rookie year?

He should've be able to fly all over the court and dunk on people's face all the time.

He was a twig who couldn't/wouldn't return punishing blows with grown men.

He shot alot of fadeaways during this period so he wasnt overly dominant. I can't help but wonder if Wilt bulked up in part to get back at those who intimidated him. The man just wanted to play without the bush league bs