Wilt Chamberlain averaged 37 and 27 as a Rookie

[lorak]

He was the League MVP as a rookie.

I think we should all just take a moment to reflect

Also good to note that his presence barely improved his team's offense that year. They were still a team that was easy to stop on the offensive end, and would roughly remain so until 7 years later when Wilt stopped shooting so much.

Barely? Since when improve from dead last to average/above average is barely?
Warriors
1959 103.3 PPG (7th of 8), .381 eFG (8th)
1960 118.6 PPG (3rd), .409 eFG (6th)

[Brooklyn718]

Quick thought:

Many downplay Wilts era and ridiculous stats but refuse to give props to scoring 81 in this era. If Wilt is downplayed that means Kobe is next in line with highest scoring game. People just don't like Kobe I guess.
BTW I'm a Knicks fan not a Laker Homer

[[GR]]

Quick thought:

Many downplay Wilts era and ridiculous stats but refuse to give props to scoring 81 in this era. If Wilt is downplayed that means Kobe is next in line with highest scoring game. People just don't like Kobe I guess.
BTW I'm a Knicks fan not a Laker Homer

They also refuse to acknowledge perimeter players playing in an easier era to score.

[90sAllDecade]

Waaay Faster pace, all centers were less then 7 feet tall, no charging line, less athletic, no advance defensive gameplans,

Yep. (skin color is irrelevant though)

Also, no ABA-NBA merger until '76 (which doubled the number of teams and competition level), no three point line until '79, no increase in the talent pool with international players joining in the mid to late 80's and the rest minutes for players was increased later. The league average for team rebounds per season was more than double than it is now.

Around the start of the eighties player numbers and competition level became more modern.

[Brooklyn718]

Quick thought:

Many downplay Wilts era and ridiculous stats but refuse to give props to scoring 81 in this era. If Wilt is downplayed that means Kobe is next in line with highest scoring game. People just don't like Kobe I guess.
BTW I'm a Knicks fan not a Laker Homer

They also refuse to acknowledge perimeter players playing in an easier era to score.

sooooooo....which is your greatest "gaudy" scoring game in history?

Im talking 60s and up

[Brooklyn718]

Quick thought:

Many downplay Wilts era and ridiculous stats but refuse to give props to scoring 81 in this era. If Wilt is downplayed that means Kobe is next in line with highest scoring game. People just don't like Kobe I guess.
BTW I'm a Knicks fan not a Laker Homer

They also refuse to acknowledge perimeter players playing in an easier era to score.

sooooooo....which is your greatest "gaudy" scoring game in history?

Im talking 60s and up

[maxpower88]

Like other people have said already, he was playing during an era where the game was played at a quicker pace, and his opponents were not as good as they would be today. Also, something a lot of people are overlooking is that there were no 3-second rules back then, so big men could literally just camp out in the paint all day long.

But with that said, if Wilt played in today's era, I could see him averaging something like 32/18/4.

[King d]

Like other people have said already, he was playing during an era where the game was played at a quicker pace, and his opponents were not as good as they would be today. Also, something a lot of people are overlooking is that there were no 3-second rules back then, so big men could literally just camp out in the paint all day long.

But with that said, if Wilt played in today's era, I could see him averaging something like 32/18/4.

That would actually make him automatically the most dominant player ever. Oh wait, he already is...

[og15]

Like other people have said already, he was playing during an era where the game was played at a quicker pace, and his opponents were not as good as they would be today. Also, something a lot of people are overlooking is that there were no 3-second rules back then, so big men could literally just camp out in the paint all day long.

But with that said, if Wilt played in today's era, I could see him averaging something like 32/18/4.

18 rebounds? How much is he playing? Let's just give some simple number to show why rebounding will be different. In Wilt's rookie season, the league average for RPG was 73.5 RPG. 14 guys averages 10+ RPG and there were 8 teams. In the NBA this season, it is 42.8 RPG, that's 30.7 more available rebounds. There were about ~72% more rebounds grabbed in Wilt's rookie season if you compare to this season. Imagine adding 72% to Dwight Howard's rebounding numbers, he would be averaging 21.8 RPG in 36.1 MPG this season. Per 36 minutes, Wilt averaged 20.9 RPG as a rookie, so roughly use that to get a perspective of what his rebounding would look like nowadays.

There are rebound rate's for Wilt's last three seasons from age 34-36, he was at 19.4 TRB%. He averaged 18.7 rebs in 43.3 MPG. Out of the players playing at least reasonable minutes this season, a TRB% of 19.4 would rank 12th or 13th behind Zach Randolph. Of course he was older and not in his prime, but even in his last season, the league average was 50.6 RPG, still about 18% more rebounds grabbed when compared to this season. Again, for example Varejao with 18% more rebounds would be averaging 17 RPG in 36 MPG this season, Dwight Howard with 18% more rebounds would be averaging 15 RPG in 36.1 MPG this season.

Just some food for thought...

[CarMalone]

Like other people have said already, he was playing during an era where the game was played at a quicker pace, and his opponents were not as good as they would be today. Also, something a lot of people are overlooking is that there were no 3-second rules back then, so big men could literally just camp out in the paint all day long.

But with that said, if Wilt played in today's era, I could see him averaging something like 32/18/4.

18 rebounds? How much is he playing? Let's just give some simple number to show why rebounding will be different. In Wilt's rookie season, the league average for RPG was 73.5 RPG. 14 guys averages 10+ RPG and there were 8 teams. In the NBA this season, it is 42.8 RPG, that's 30.7 more available rebounds. There were about ~72% more rebounds grabbed in Wilt's rookie season if you compare to this season. Imagine adding 72% to Dwight Howard's rebounding numbers, he would be averaging 21.8 RPG in 36.1 MPG this season. Per 36 minutes, Wilt averaged 20.9 RPG as a rookie, so roughly use that to get a perspective of what his rebounding would look like nowadays.

There are rebound rate's for Wilt's last three seasons from age 34-36, he was at 19.4 TRB%. He averaged 18.7 rebs in 43.3 MPG. Out of the players playing at least reasonable minutes this season, a TRB% of 19.4 would rank 12th or 13th behind Zach Randolph. Of course he was older and not in his prime, but even in his last season, the league average was 50.6 RPG, still about 18% more rebounds grabbed when compared to this season. Again, for example Varejao with 18% more rebounds would be averaging 17 RPG in 36 MPG this season, Dwight Howard with 18% more rebounds would be averaging 15 RPG in 36.1 MPG this season.

Just some food for thought...

[AQuintus]

Wilt Chaimberlain's rookie season per 36 - 29.2 points (24.9 FGA), 20.9 rebounds, 1.8 assists

David Robinson's rookie season per 36 - 23.9 points (15.6 FGA), 11.8 rebounds, 2.0 assists

So, per 36, his numbers aren't way outside of the norm for superstar Centers, and would be even closer when adjusted for pace and lower FG% leading to more rebounding opportunities.

The most impressive thing about Chaimberlain wasn't his numbers, it was the ridiculous amount of minutes that he was capable of playing. His most unbreakable record isn't his 100 points in a single game (which will eventually be broken), but his 48.5 mpg record (regulation was still only 48 mpg), and that will never be broken.

[LordBaldric]

Like other people have said already, he was playing during an era where the game was played at a quicker pace, and his opponents were not as good as they would be today. Also, something a lot of people are overlooking is that there were no 3-second rules back then, so big men could literally just camp out in the paint all day long.

But with that said, if Wilt played in today's era, I could see him averaging something like 32/18/4.

18 rebounds? How much is he playing? Let's just give some simple number to show why rebounding will be different. In Wilt's rookie season, the league average for RPG was 73.5 RPG. 14 guys averages 10+ RPG and there were 8 teams. In the NBA this season, it is 42.8 RPG, that's 30.7 more available rebounds. There were about ~72% more rebounds grabbed in Wilt's rookie season if you compare to this season. Imagine adding 72% to Dwight Howard's rebounding numbers, he would be averaging 21.8 RPG in 36.1 MPG this season. Per 36 minutes, Wilt averaged 20.9 RPG as a rookie, so roughly use that to get a perspective of what his rebounding would look like nowadays.

There are rebound rate's for Wilt's last three seasons from age 34-36, he was at 19.4 TRB%. He averaged 18.7 rebs in 43.3 MPG. Out of the players playing at least reasonable minutes this season, a TRB% of 19.4 would rank 12th or 13th behind Zach Randolph. Of course he was older and not in his prime, but even in his last season, the league average was 50.6 RPG, still about 18% more rebounds grabbed when compared to this season. Again, for example Varejao with 18% more rebounds would be averaging 17 RPG in 36 MPG this season, Dwight Howard with 18% more rebounds would be averaging 15 RPG in 36.1 MPG this season.

Just some food for thought...

You better have an oxygen tank on the bench for ole Zach when he tries to duplicate Wilt's minutes playing at a 60's pace. Or do pace/minutes only count when it diminishes Wilt's accomplishments? As if any guy can step out there and play crazy minutes at a crazy pace and still remain effective the whole game. Not to mention not getting injured doing this day after day.

[RayBan-Sematra]

Rookie Wilt was a beast. However keep in mind.

-There weren't many other C's to challenge him outside of Russell and Bellamy (poor defender).
-Game was less developed and less established.
-The pace of the game was much faster and Wilt was playing 48mpg.

Per 40 minutes Rookie Playoff Wilt was averaging 28ppg / 1.8apg on 50%TS.
That is really not overly impressive and in a slower paced league those ppg/apg number's would possibly be lower.

Definitely a GOAT level athlete though (think larger/longer David Robinson) and would definitely be a force in any era especially in terms of rebounding and defense (if he focused on that).

[Damon_3388]

Aside from Wilt, there were only 15 other players in the entire league in 1959-60 who were 6'9" and above, and just one other 7-footer. In Wilt's final year (1972-73), there was still just 46 players in the league 6'9" and above, and just six other 7-footers. 40 years on from Wilt's NBA retirement, there is 173 players in the league 6'9" and above, and 34 of those are 7-footers.

Not saying it was all his size, but you put someone that big with the type of athleticism and strength he had too in there against guys who are significantly smaller, and he's going to dominate regardless.

[og15]

Like other people have said already, he was playing during an era where the game was played at a quicker pace, and his opponents were not as good as they would be today. Also, something a lot of people are overlooking is that there were no 3-second rules back then, so big men could literally just camp out in the paint all day long.

But with that said, if Wilt played in today's era, I could see him averaging something like 32/18/4.

18 rebounds? How much is he playing? Let's just give some simple number to show why rebounding will be different. In Wilt's rookie season, the league average for RPG was 73.5 RPG. 14 guys averages 10+ RPG and there were 8 teams. In the NBA this season, it is 42.8 RPG, that's 30.7 more available rebounds. There were about ~72% more rebounds grabbed in Wilt's rookie season if you compare to this season. Imagine adding 72% to Dwight Howard's rebounding numbers, he would be averaging 21.8 RPG in 36.1 MPG this season. Per 36 minutes, Wilt averaged 20.9 RPG as a rookie, so roughly use that to get a perspective of what his rebounding would look like nowadays.

There are rebound rate's for Wilt's last three seasons from age 34-36, he was at 19.4 TRB%. He averaged 18.7 rebs in 43.3 MPG. Out of the players playing at least reasonable minutes this season, a TRB% of 19.4 would rank 12th or 13th behind Zach Randolph. Of course he was older and not in his prime, but even in his last season, the league average was 50.6 RPG, still about 18% more rebounds grabbed when compared to this season. Again, for example Varejao with 18% more rebounds would be averaging 17 RPG in 36 MPG this season, Dwight Howard with 18% more rebounds would be averaging 15 RPG in 36.1 MPG this season.

Just some food for thought...

You better have an oxygen tank on the bench for ole Zach when he tries to duplicate Wilt's minutes playing at a 60's pace. Or do pace/minutes only count when it diminishes Wilt's accomplishments? As if any guy can step out there and play crazy minutes at a crazy pace and still remain effective the whole game. Not to mention not getting injured doing this day after day.

Randolph is not important to my post or the point being made, so I'm not even sure why you are mentioning that. Yes, Randolph wouldn't average more rebounds than Wilt because he would play less minutes, what does that have to do with rebound %? Who said Randolph would average more total rebounds or could play heavy minutes or stay as healthy as Wilt?

Ray Ban, you can't compare TS% in a season when no one shot 50% FG to now. Shooters weren't as accurate on an overall scale from the field, and every team was jacking shots. Offense was more about scoring as quickly as possible and less about finding "good" shots.

[RayBan-Sematra]

Ray Ban, you can't compare TS% in a season when no one shot 50% FG to now. Shooters weren't as accurate on an overall scale from the field, and every team was jacking shots. Offense was more about scoring as quickly as possible and less about finding "good" shots.

Then why did Oscar and West manage to maintain excellent offensive efficiency in an All-Time sense despite playing in the same era?

I see no excuse for someone with such an enormous athletic and size advantage who apparently was also quite skilled to be held to at times such poor percentages.

Maybe my grasp of that era is not good enough and you are right in saying that his at times poor efficiency was due to the style of play they maintained but I am not sure of that yet.

[TheGoodDoctor]

Funny thing is I can't remember even half of the short white guys he did it against.

[NashtyNas]

Waaay Faster pace, all centers were less then 7 feet tall, most of the other players werewhite, no charging line, less athletic, no advance defensive gameplans,

Way to be a dam racist... So then can we say now that the nba is full of less iq players and not to mention there black. Now a day its all about getting ur own...



ITS FUNNY BE RACIST TO WHITE PEOPLE BUT WHEN A WHITE PERSON SAYS SOMETHING YOU'LL CRY ABOUT IT!!

Not that what he said was okay, but really, dude? Are you forgetting that white people were the one's enslaving blacks, and not the other way around? White people don't get the same privilege when it comes to racism, they created racism, they don't get to cry foul about it now. Please refrain from spitting out such bogus, doesn't matter if he stereotyped, it's just belligerent to state what you did in the way that you stated it.

[Doctor MJ]

He was the League MVP as a rookie.

I think we should all just take a moment to reflect

Also good to note that his presence barely improved his team's offense that year. They were still a team that was easy to stop on the offensive end, and would roughly remain so until 7 years later when Wilt stopped shooting so much.

Barely? Since when improve from dead last to average/above average is barely?
Warriors
1959 103.3 PPG (7th of 8), .381 eFG (8th)
1960 118.6 PPG (3rd), .409 eFG (6th)

What the heck dude. You've been in all of these projects over on the PC board. Even if you don't agree with things like ElGee's assessments of ORtg, it's hard to imagine you don't know what I'm talking about, and I can't even believe that you used raw PPG to throw in "above average" as a possibility. You yourself have done things far more sophisticated than that in data analysis

For everyone else, and I suppose you too DS, here's the RPOY thread from that year. Look for ElGee's post where he gives his estimates. You'll find it directly in front of one of DS's posts:

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1055114

His estimates then:

'59-60: ORtg 87.9, 2.4 below league average, 7th of 8
'58-59: ORtg 85.3, 3.9 below league average, 8th of 8

So Wilt joining the team resulted in a 1.5 improvement in offensive rating, and made it so that was now one offense in the league that easier to stop than Philly.

Also ftr, in case you're not sure what scale of improvement is impressive, when you get to 4 points better you can talk about serious improvement, 6 ponts better is something relatively historic, 9 points better is about where the record is.

Wilt's arrival in the league heralded a team offensive improvement that is not significant by any standard.

[Doctor MJ]

Aside from Wilt, there were only 15 other players in the entire league in 1959-60 who were 6'9" and above, and just one other 7-footer. In Wilt's final year (1972-73), there was still just 46 players in the league 6'9" and above, and just six other 7-footers. 40 years on from Wilt's NBA retirement, there is 173 players in the league 6'9" and above, and 34 of those are 7-footers.

Not saying it was all his size, but you put someone that big with the type of athleticism and strength he had too in there against guys who are significantly smaller, and he's going to dominate regardless.

Dude, I'm not one trying to defend Wilt's performance here, but the average height has barely changed since Wilt's time. You list X number of players, but there were only 8 teams. You talk about 7 footers, but the league is dominated by guys under 7 feet even at the center position today.

It's interesting because you basically just see his impact back then as a given, which it wasn't. You underrate the quality of the players at the time and partly as a result of that you overestimate what Wilt achieved against them.