Karl Wants Javale McGee To Be More Like Tim Duncan

Moderators: Morten Jensen, tsherkin, Blame Rasho, Yuri Vaultin, NO-KG-AI, magnumt, Flash3

User avatar
LascelleL
Analyst
Posts: 3,268
And1: 112
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
Location: Toronto
Contact:
         

Re: Karl Wants Javale McGee To Be More Like Tim Duncan 

Post#31 » by LascelleL » Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:43 am

mj234eva wrote:No lie, I just saw that on the wiretap and busted out laughing.
RAPTORS DRAFT WIGGINS
Sinant wrote:I treat the Phoenix/Cleveland/Boston Shaqs like I do Wizards MJ.
Never happened.

^^^^So True

Image
User avatar
dangermouse
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,279
And1: 238
Joined: Dec 08, 2009

Re: Karl Wants Javale McGee To Be More Like Tim Duncan 

Post#32 » by dangermouse » Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:03 am

I want my bank account to be more like Bill Gates'.

I want my girlfriend to be more like Jenna Jameson.

I want my Wizards to be more like Oklahoma City.
pineappleheadindc wrote:Q: What is Nene girlfriend's name?

A: Noah.
User avatar
Nate505
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,938
And1: 418
Joined: Oct 29, 2001
Location: Denver, CO
         

Re: Karl Wants Javale McGee To Be More Like Tim Duncan 

Post#33 » by Nate505 » Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:14 am

Manimal wrote:He basically said he just wants him to be less worried about making the spectacular play and just focus on making the solid, fundamental basketball play. For instance, instead of blocking a shot 10 rows into the stands, block the shot in a way that you can retain possession of the ball. Or instead of trying to throw down a highlight reel dunk in traffic, just put the ball in the basket the easiest way possible. Just play solid fundamental basketball, like Duncan does. Not actually play like one of the greatest big men ever(though that would obviously be nice too).

Nothing too ridiculous in what he said, IMO.


The idea isn't ridiculous. The idea of the person he's telling it to to be smart enough to pull it off is.

Seriously, McGee may be the dumbest player in the league.
Utah Jazz - 13/14 Tank Commanders

#Riggin4Wiggins #Scandal4Randle #PlayinSorry4Jabari #LossHoardin4Gordon #PlayinDumb4Exum #AvoidTakingTheLead4Embiid #OffToABadStart4Smart
SalamiNCheez
RealGM
Posts: 15,943
And1: 1,831
Joined: Jul 01, 2007
Location: Toronto, ON
     

Re: Karl Wants Javale McGee To Be More Like Tim Duncan 

Post#34 » by SalamiNCheez » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:58 am

dangermouse wrote:I want my bank account to be more like Bill Gates'.

I want my girlfriend to be more like Jenna Jameson.

I want my Wizards to be more like Oklahoma City.


Eww.. really?

Image
User avatar
siydee
Rookie
Posts: 1,102
And1: 50
Joined: Jul 10, 2010
Location: chicago

Re: Karl Wants Javale McGee To Be More Like Tim Duncan 

Post#35 » by siydee » Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:51 am

easy to take that headline the wrong way, but pretty much everyone is laughing at that wiretap is taking it out of context. there is nothing ludicrous about what karl is saying.
The Rebel
Forum Mod - Nuggets
Forum Mod - Nuggets
Posts: 14,855
And1: 1,076
Joined: Mar 05, 2005

Re: Karl Wants Javale McGee To Be More Like Tim Duncan 

Post#36 » by The Rebel » Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:43 am

Doctor MJ wrote:
CHA_77_Bobcats wrote:^ It was a great trade. Nene's contract is terrible since he's rarely healthy and playing at 100% and let's be honest, 100% for Nene isn't star caliber or anywhere close to it.

Javale is still growing as a player, really young, sooooooooooo lllllllllloooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnggg and full of potential.


Aslo just saw today is Javale's 25th birthday, quarter of a century. Javale: "what's a century?"


Nene actually should have been an all-star. This is what I mean when I say underrated.

Now, that doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad trade. Obviously they weren't winning any titles with the core they had. Shaking things up can be a good thing. Taking a risk can be a good thing. However, if Denver was under any illusion that McGee was in Nene's league in terms of being able to actually play 5-on-5 basketball effectively at the time, then it was a bad trade because that just means they didn't know what they were doing.

Re: "really young"...25. What sport are you following here? When have you ever seen a 5th year NBA player not understand the game and later evolve into someone who really grasps team basketball well? Basketball simply isn't that complicated if you've got a good brain for it.


The Nene trade had more to do with dumping Nene then it did with getting McGee back, Nene has missed almost a third of the games played throughout his career, and many of those were due to nursing minor injuries. For about 3 years Nene finally looked like he was about to finally reach his true potential especially without Melo on the team after that drama, the last couple of months of the 2009-2010 season Nene was putting up 15 and 8 on something like 65% shooting in 30 mpg.

Then they gave him his new deal, he started missing games with minor injuries again, he started not playing hard several games, ending up missing over half the season last year, and 13 games already this year. Karl loves Nene personally especially after them both going through the cancer battle, and you will find most Nuggets fans actually still have a soft spot for Nene, but paying 13 million a year for a guy who only plays 2/3rds of the time, and then only hard when he feels like it, is not a recipe for success.

Say what you will about McGee, but he has limited his bonehead mistakes, he still makes one every few games, but it is not that bad, but at least he is on the court and giving it his all every night. If Nene would have done that he could have been a 20 and 10 guy, McGee wants to be better then he is, Nene just never seemed to care as much as Karl or the fans wanted him too.
mysticbb
Banned User
Posts: 8,205
And1: 698
Joined: May 28, 2007
Contact:
   

Re: Karl Wants Javale McGee To Be More Like Tim Duncan 

Post#37 » by mysticbb » Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:18 am

CHA_77_Bobcats wrote:^ It was a great trade. Nene's contract is terrible since he's rarely healthy and playing at 100% and let's be honest, 100% for Nene isn't star caliber or anywhere close to it.

Javale is still growing as a player, really young, sooooooooooo lllllllllloooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnggg and full of potential.


So far this season: Nene played 576 min and the Wizards with him on the court are at +5.2 per 100 possessions. McGee played 798 min and the Nuggets are -2.4 per 100 possessions with him on the court. Nene has $45.5m left on his contract (3.5 years), McGee $39m. To be quite blunt, I much rather pay Nene with injury problems $45.5m than McGee without injury problems $39m, because the former will at least make my team play better basketball when on the court, while the other makes his coaches wish he would have the brain of someone else.

The Rebel wrote:Say what you will about McGee, but he has limited his bonehead mistakes, he still makes one every few games, but it is not that bad, but at least he is on the court and giving it his all every night.


His "all" is not that much, that is the issue here. McGee is not a basketball player, he is an athlete, who happens to be big enough to play the game of basketball. He lacks the understanding and the fundamentals.
MrHidden
Suspended
Posts: 2,393
And1: 11
Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Re: Karl Wants Javale McGee To Be More Like Tim Duncan 

Post#38 » by MrHidden » Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:27 am

SalamiNCheez wrote:
dangermouse wrote:I want my bank account to be more like Bill Gates'.

I want my girlfriend to be more like Jenna Jameson.

I want my Wizards to be more like Oklahoma City.


Eww.. really?

Image


i think he mean Jenna in her prime :wink:
eathb_au
Starter
Posts: 2,054
And1: 79
Joined: May 30, 2010

Re: Karl Wants Javale McGee To Be More Like Tim Duncan 

Post#39 » by eathb_au » Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:28 am

The only reason why Denver were able to take the Lakers to 7 games was because they did the trade

Nene was always pathetic against the Lakers and in the playoffs in general
tsherkin
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 59,926
And1: 5,045
Joined: Oct 14, 2003
 

Re: Karl Wants Javale McGee To Be More Like Tim Duncan 

Post#40 » by tsherkin » Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:52 pm

"More like" doesn't have to mean "exactly like."

Karl's got a good idea, and a really basic one.

"Don't worry about being spectacular, just make the basic play."

Even McGee should be able to grasp that to one extent or another. Block the ball in play, check your man on D, box out, run the floor, hit the open man with the pass. Just play fundamental ball. McGee needs to slow down and worry less about how he looks and more about how to make the right play. He's got million-dollar talent and a ten-cent brain, but if he can keep things simple, well...

Even Kwame Brown learned how to be a deep rotation player by manning up in the post and boxing out, you know what I'm saying? If McGee can just focus, then he could be really good. He's flashing some basic post moves, he's hitting the offensive boards really well and finishing at the rim well.

He can't shoot away from the rim, he blows at the line... he's not a primary scoring threat. Or even a secondary, he's purely a clean-up player on offense and that's fine. But if Karl can help him operate under some basic constraints of strategy on defense, then his value would shoot up IMMEDIATELY. He clearly anticipates shots very well and has the mobility, length and timing to get to them and block shots. He's been at 6.6+ BLK % from his second year forward and led the league one season. Everyone knows he can hunt down the shot and block it. Now he just needs to worry about leaving his man a little less and knocking the ball to a teammate. That shouldn't be an intellect-straining move, even for McGee. Might take some time, but it's manageable.

I like what Karl is doing, or trying to do.
DEAN GARRETT!!!
User avatar
Effigy
General Manager
Posts: 7,527
And1: 1,610
Joined: Nov 27, 2001
     

Re: Karl Wants Javale McGee To Be More Like Tim Duncan 

Post#41 » by Effigy » Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:28 pm

Suns want Michael Beasley to be more like Lebron James.
User avatar
Debaser
Starter
Posts: 2,249
And1: 162
Joined: May 24, 2006

Re: Karl Wants Javale McGee To Be More Like Tim Duncan 

Post#42 » by Debaser » Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:30 pm

The Big Areumental
mysticbb
Banned User
Posts: 8,205
And1: 698
Joined: May 28, 2007
Contact:
   

Re: Karl Wants Javale McGee To Be More Like Tim Duncan 

Post#43 » by mysticbb » Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:08 pm

tsherkin wrote:Karl's got a good idea, and a really basic one.


Nobody is disputing that this is a good idea, just that McGee produces more mental lapses within a week than Duncan had in his whole career. That is not just a question of McGee not having the fundamental skills of Duncan, he also doesn't possess the mental abilities.

Every coach should want his interior big to play like Duncan, keep it simple, stays with the fundamental stuff, don't force the issue, make the right plays offensively and cover the holes on the defensive end by moving to the right spots. That is in fact a great idea, just that Duncan seems to have a more natural understanding of the game, knows what a team sports means and worked on his fundamental skills his entire career. It probably helped that he developed a base strength and stamina via swimming, because that is a workout for the whole body and not just for specific muscles. It is probably a good idea for young basketball players to become a medley swimmer as well.
User avatar
torotoe
Rookie
Posts: 1,030
And1: 38
Joined: Oct 08, 2012
Location: South Park, CO

Re: Karl Wants Javale McGee To Be More Like Tim Duncan 

Post#44 » by torotoe » Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:22 pm

mysticbb wrote:So far this season: Nene played 576 min and the Wizards with him on the court are at +5.2 per 100 possessions. McGee played 798 min and the Nuggets are -2.4 per 100 possessions with him on the court. Nene has $45.5m left on his contract (3.5 years), McGee $39m. To be quite blunt, I much rather pay Nene with injury problems $45.5m than McGee without injury problems $39m, because the former will at least make my team play better basketball when on the court, while the other makes his coaches wish he would have the brain of someone else.

Do you not see the obvious bias in +/-? McGee is a bench player on a good team. Nene is by far and away the best player on an awful team. When McGee is off the floor Koufos is producing and the starters are in with him, hence the +/-. The wizards are a joke when Nene is on the bench.
9abovetherim
Banned User
Posts: 5,128
And1: 70
Joined: Mar 30, 2010

Re: Karl Wants Javale McGee To Be More Like Tim Duncan 

Post#45 » by 9abovetherim » Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:26 pm

And I want Monta Ellis to be more like Dwyane Wade, oh wait...
mysticbb
Banned User
Posts: 8,205
And1: 698
Joined: May 28, 2007
Contact:
   

Re: Karl Wants Javale McGee To Be More Like Tim Duncan 

Post#46 » by mysticbb » Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:26 pm

torotoe wrote:Do you not see the obvious bias in +/-? McGee is a bench player on a good team. Nene is by far and away the best player on an awful team. When McGee is off the floor Koufos is producing and the starters are in with him, hence the +/-. The wizards are a joke when Nene is on the bench.


There is no such bias. The numbers I listed are the simple pace adjusted scoring margins when someone is on the court. How the team plays without the respective player is NOT included. If we would do that, it would be even more loopsided. Again, that "awful team" with Nene is outscoring their opponents when Nene is on the court! The "good team" is getting outscored when McGee is on the court! Whether the Wizards are a joke without Nene or the Nuggets are awesome without McGee doesn't matter at all.
User avatar
torotoe
Rookie
Posts: 1,030
And1: 38
Joined: Oct 08, 2012
Location: South Park, CO

Re: Karl Wants Javale McGee To Be More Like Tim Duncan 

Post#47 » by torotoe » Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:36 pm

mysticbb wrote:
tsherkin wrote:Karl's got a good idea, and a really basic one.


Nobody is disputing that this is a good idea, just that McGee produces more mental lapses within a week than Duncan had in his whole career. That is not just a question of McGee not having the fundamental skills of Duncan, he also doesn't possess the mental abilities.
This is extremely overstated, I personally dont think he's dumb, just low bbiq. He's sharp in interviews, he's not a dumb guy. That said, does he even NEED to have the mental faculties to play fundamental? No. McGee should have a simpler, more standard jump hook ala koufos. He's always trying to do crazy up and under dunks, etc. Keep it simple.

On D, he has tremendous potential. As is he makes the other team worry about driving. Once he is actually playing solid D, he will be scary good with his length, speed, durability and hops. That's why Karl wants him to play like duncan. Actually, if you clone Duncan's brain and transplant it into McGee, he's the best player in the league. He's got tools that duncan could never dream of (and also couldn't use as a crutch like McGee).
sisibilio
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,500
And1: 350
Joined: Nov 18, 2009

Re: Karl Wants Javale McGee To Be More Like Tim Duncan 

Post#48 » by sisibilio » Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:37 pm

Manimal wrote:Nothing too ridiculous in what he said, IMO.

GTFO.
If you want to try to measure the elements of basketball that are supposedly unmeasurable, spend a game just watching Marc Gasol.
@MikePradaSBN
branny
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,810
And1: 27
Joined: Jun 01, 2012

Re: Karl Wants Javale McGee To Be More Like Tim Duncan 

Post#49 » by branny » Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:39 pm

9abovetherim wrote:And I want Monta Ellis to be more like Dwyane Wade, oh wait...

:lol:
User avatar
torotoe
Rookie
Posts: 1,030
And1: 38
Joined: Oct 08, 2012
Location: South Park, CO

Re: Karl Wants Javale McGee To Be More Like Tim Duncan 

Post#50 » by torotoe » Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:50 pm

mysticbb wrote:
torotoe wrote:Do you not see the obvious bias in +/-? McGee is a bench player on a good team. Nene is by far and away the best player on an awful team. When McGee is off the floor Koufos is producing and the starters are in with him, hence the +/-. The wizards are a joke when Nene is on the bench.


There is no such bias. The numbers I listed are the simple pace adjusted scoring margins when someone is on the court. How the team plays without the respective player is NOT included. If we would do that, it would be even more loopsided. Again, that "awful team" with Nene is outscoring their opponents when Nene is on the court! The "good team" is getting outscored when McGee is on the court! Whether the Wizards are a joke without Nene or the Nuggets are awesome without McGee doesn't matter at all.


Ok, I misunderstood your stat, thought it was +/-. Stil, Nene plays with the best 5 the wizards have. not so for McGee who plays with brewer, miller, etc. If Nene came off the bench, his scoring margin would drop, right?

Return to The General Board