Jrue Holiday revisited

Mr. Crowley · Post #41 » by **Mr. Crowley** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:42 am

Well seeing some advanced metrics his impact is average at best

He has a better defensive impact that in offense, being a point guard that's not good at all.

orangeparka · Post #42 » by **orangeparka** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:43 am

Coaches will vote him in for sure.

eyeatoma · Post #43 » by **eyeatoma** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:12 am

Again not taking into consideration his poor team mates...

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Xparent ICS Tapatalk 2

BR0D1E86 · Post #44 » by **BR0D1E86** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:17 am

KrazySixersD wrote:people keep acting like we are playin full strength... we are missing a top 10 overall player on our team..

Now you've lost me. Bynum is not, never was, and never will be a top 10 player. Or anything resembling one.

Jrue is having a heck of a season though.

Post #45 » by **CoreyGallagher** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:42 pm

bronxknicksfan1 wrote:But wasn't this Sixers team supposed to be a force and be better than the Knicks and the Celtics according to most?

With a legitimate Center that may have been possible, too bad Bynum's injury was more severe than anyone initially expected.

underpressure · Post #46 » by **underpressure** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:13 pm

Mr. Crowley wrote:Well seeing some advanced metrics his impact is average at best

He has a better defensive impact that in offense, being a point guard that's not good at all.

So which metric is in favor of Thad Young? The fact that 70% of his field goals are assisted?

Metrics are a fancy tool and can be helpful at times. But I rather stick to what I have seen from Jrue Holiday.

r3demption · Post #47 » by **r3demption** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:39 pm

ComboGuardCity wrote:His team is out of the playoffs at this point and nobody out of the playoffs is making the all star team. He's good, but you didn't make a thread when calderon dropped 14/11 on him and beat his team badly.

dwight and kobe say hi

knicksNOTslick · Post #48 » by **knicksNOTslick** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:54 pm

The excuse that Bynum's not playing is a poor one. The guy's been hurt a whole lot in his career. How many games has he missed? He's always found himself in season-ending injuries. He's played 6 seasons. He had one year where he played a full 82 games (in his 2nd season.) After that? His only healthy season was last year in a lockout shortened season. Having Bynum on your team comes with the strong possibility that he'll be hurt for a large number of games. We're halfway through on what would be his 7th season. He's missed nearly 200 games overall, more if he's out for the season. That's like 2 1/2 seasons worth of games. You have to factor that in. You can't just say, well, we don't have Bynum.

youngcrev · Post #49 » by **youngcrev** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:58 pm

daschysta wrote:Holiday is way under-rated by most people.

However, by that same token Bynum is way overrated by most people.

Bynum coming back isn't going to make Philly into a homecourt team in the East, that roster has big problems when you look beyond Jrue/Bynum/Thadeus young.

Evan Turner is fading in a dissapointing way, his shooting percentage has gone from 45.8 to 42.7 to 39.6 month by month, his scoring has dropped from 14.9 to 14.4 to 11.6 month by month so have his Rebounds and 3 point percentage (45.8 to 41 to 30). I don't really see him as a starter on a contending team, which is dissapointing considering he started really hot. Young has underperformed, and really everyone else has as well but Thadeus and Jrue, Bynum isn't going to just make everything better.

Jrue is the real deal though, it's just that he and Bynum alone aren't going to make the Sixers into a 50+ win squad.

Bynum may or may not be overrated... but it's hard to ignore how much different the team would look (on paper) with him. Even if he's not a top-10 player as someone called him in this thread, look at his value over what he'd be replacing, and consider the Sixers biggest flaws right now as a team. Basically, it just slides guys back into the role they were expected to play at the beginning of the season. Thad Young and Evan Turner are leading this team in rebounding right now at 7.3 and 6.6 respectively, they've got nobody to protect the rim, and no legit options in the low post. If nothing else, Bynum is going to give you that consistent low post threat that can block a few shots and rebound. And with that the team can be more aggressive defensively and those shooters the team brought in this offseason to spread the floor can get better looks.

snoopdogg88 · Post #50 » by **snoopdogg88** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:05 pm

agree with youngcrev

Even As a diehard Sixer fan, I would actually agree that Bynum is pretty overrated.

But he would still make a massive difference on this team. He's replacing Spencer Hawes/Lavoy Allen/Kwame Brown as the man in the middle. His presence alone as someone who can actually play the center position correctly would be huge on this team.

someone who can actually rebound/play competent defense/score at center is exactly what the sixers need

youngcrev · Post #51 » by **youngcrev** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:06 pm

knicksNOTslick wrote:The excuse that Bynum's not playing is a poor one. The guy's been hurt a whole lot in his career. How many games has he missed? He's always found himself in season-ending injuries. He's played 6 seasons. He had one year where he played a full 82 games (in his 2nd season.) After that? His only healthy season was last year in a lockout shortened season. Having Bynum on your team comes with the strong possibility that he'll be hurt for a large number of games. We're halfway through on what would be his 7th season. He's missed nearly 200 games overall, more if he's out for the season. That's like 2 1/2 seasons worth of games. You have to factor that in. You can't just say, well, we don't have Bynum.

I don't think it's a poor excuse when people were throwing in the caveat of "with a healthy Bynum" before their projections for the team. People knew full and well about his injury history. He's coming off a healthy season though as you said, so I don't think anyone expected it to be THIS extreme (Except maybe Orlando). Considering without him they've taken basically a .500 team and replaced 3 of their best players with guys that are mediocre at best, I wouldn't expect them to be any better than they are.

Post #52 » by **CoreyGallagher** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:08 pm

knicksNOTslick wrote:The excuse that Bynum's not playing is a poor one. The guy's been hurt a whole lot in his career. How many games has he missed? He's always found himself in season-ending injuries. He's played 6 seasons. He had one year where he played a full 82 games (in his 2nd season.) After that? His only healthy season was last year in a lockout shortened season. Having Bynum on your team comes with the strong possibility that he'll be hurt for a large number of games. We're halfway through on what would be his 7th season. He's missed nearly 200 games overall, more if he's out for the season. That's like 2 1/2 seasons worth of games. You have to factor that in. You can't just say, well, we don't have Bynum.

So, let's just ignore the fact that a player with a top 10 PER last season (23.00) is just not playing...? Humorous, also, he's missed 40 games this season, he's missed that many games a single time in a season in his career thus far...

The Sixers top rebounder this season is averaging 7.3 rebounds per game.

ermocrate · Post #53 » by **ermocrate** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:10 pm

He has the same problem of most of UCLA and DUKE ex players.

knicksNOTslick · Post #54 » by **knicksNOTslick** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:13 pm

CoreyGallagher wrote:
knicksNOTslick wrote:The excuse that Bynum's not playing is a poor one. The guy's been hurt a whole lot in his career. How many games has he missed? He's always found himself in season-ending injuries. He's played 6 seasons. He had one year where he played a full 82 games (in his 2nd season.) After that? His only healthy season was last year in a lockout shortened season. Having Bynum on your team comes with the strong possibility that he'll be hurt for a large number of games. We're halfway through on what would be his 7th season. He's missed nearly 200 games overall, more if he's out for the season. That's like 2 1/2 seasons worth of games. You have to factor that in. You can't just say, well, we don't have Bynum.

So, let's just ignore the fact that a player with a top 10 PER last season (23.00) is just not playing...? Humorous, also, he's missed 40 games this season, he's missed that many games a single time in a season in his career thus far...

Yea, him missing the whole season is not the norm. But you have to expect this from Bynum. He will be injured a lot. The only thing is... the Lakers were a deep team when they had him so they could afford to have Bynum miss that many games. The Sixers are not a deep team at all.

PER is overrated. We still don't know how Bynum will look as the main star on his team. He's on a completely different team and he's been hurt so far. We don't know how he will look yet coming back from injury. So right now, he's a question mark.

Post #55 » by **CoreyGallagher** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:53 pm

knicksNOTslick wrote:Yea, him missing the whole season is not the norm. But you have to expect this from Bynum. He will be injured a lot. The only thing is... the Lakers were a deep team when they had him so they could afford to have Bynum miss that many games. The Sixers are not a deep team at all.

PER is overrated. We still don't know how Bynum will look as the main star on his team. He's on a completely different team and he's been hurt so far. We don't know how he will look yet coming back from injury. So right now, he's a question mark.

This season the Sixers are not a deep team, I never said that they were.

In regards to PER, given a large enough sample size, which 60 games is, PER is not overrated for the point that I was intending to make which is that he is an impactful player. I was not claiming that he is a top 10 player nor that he would make us into an instant contender, only that his being on the court, given our lack of depth, would be beneficial and his resume has given us no reason to doubt that to this point.

inquisitive · Post #56 » by **inquisitive** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:06 pm

a very special player...should be an all-star

JWiLL02 · Post #57 » by **JWiLL02** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:29 pm

Holiday definitely played like a stud on Friday.

It helped that our genius coach took Ross (who was on fire) out of the game for DeMar (who was terrible), when Ross should have closed out the game and been matched up with Holiday. He would have slowed him down considerably and we likely would have closed it out in regulation.

But hey...that's a winning adjustment, we don't do that here in Toronto. Holiday has definitely earned an All Star reserve spot this year.

MrBigShot · Post #58 » by **MrBigShot** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:08 pm

This guy is special. He's taken a HUGE step forward this year. Basically went from a good young player to a special one with who I believe will be a perennial all star and top 5 PG for a long time.

KrazySixersD · Post #59 » by **KrazySixersD** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:35 pm

bronxknicksfan1 wrote:But wasn't this Sixers team supposed to be a force and be better than the Knicks and the Celtics according to most?

without bynum playing a single minute... we are a wopping 3 games behind boston... and beat them 2 out of 3 so far...

GreenWithEnvy · Post #60 » by **GreenWithEnvy** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:25 pm

You can't possibly say "he doesn't deserve to be an allstar because his team sucks" and then go and say "Kyrie Irving is an allstar wowwww what a player"....As far as I'm concerned Jrue is better than Kyrie because he's an elite defender and consistently gets his teammates involved.