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Doping/enhancement drugs in the NBA?

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Post#81 Re: Doping/enhancement drugs in the NBA?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:03 pm by Apathy

MrBigShot wrote:He isn't saying that the NBA requires "more or less" skill than other sports, but you have to admit, enhancement drugs tend to have more of a direct effect on performance in other sports, such as baseball. I'm not baseball experts, but I know that steroids will generally help a guy get stronger/bigger which will result in harder hits, and more home runs.


No, I don't "have to admit." Based on what? Studies haven't even shown that steroids result in harder hit balls. All evidence is anecdotal. They tried to pin that on Bonds over and over and again after again it was all anecdotal, dude.

Using enhancement drugs in the NBA has less of a direct affect. Using a drug to aid in muscle growth wont necessarily help you make more shots if aren't skilled enough to shoot well or finish through contact.

In that regard, performance in the NBA is less reliant on them. I think the biggest thing it does is to help their endurance/recovery, which I don't mind. Players already use ice and acupuncture to recover after games anyway. I think allowing them players to play as well as possible during longer stretches is a good thing.


You're conveniently ignoring that the plague in MLB wasn't even steroids: it was (and probably still is) amphetamines. Amphetamines have been used in the sport since time immemorial. In the original SI expose with Ken Caminiti, he admitted way more players are on greenies than steroids. I forgot what he said but I believe it was something like 85-90 percent.

That's what the less enlightened folk in this thread aren't getting: it's more about the endurance and recovery aspects than the sheer size/muscle. It's always going to be more about that, because it's the rigorous schedule / lack of sleep that affects performance the most. Without bans, those abuses are going to be ABSURDLY prevalent. And after a certain point -- Malcolm Gladwell would call it the tipping point -- EVERYONE would be virtually forced to use something in order to remain competitive.
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Post#82 Re: Doping/enhancement drugs in the NBA?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:29 pm by andyhop

If a high percentage of NBA players aren't taking some form of PED then they are either the most ethical or the stupidest group of sportsmen in the world.The risk/reward ratio in the NBA is massively in favour of taking something due to the lack of testing.
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Post#83 Re: Doping/enhancement drugs in the NBA?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:34 pm by Jellybeans824

I firmly believe that is the reason why The White Mamba retired early
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Post#84 Re: Doping/enhancement drugs in the NBA?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:45 pm by StocktonShorts

andyhop wrote:If a high percentage of NBA players aren't taking some form of PED then they are either the most ethical or the stupidest group of sportsmen in the world.The risk/reward ratio in the NBA is massively in favour of taking something due to the lack of testing.


Exactly!

(and I'm not just agreeing with you because you're a Liverpool supporter)
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Post#85 Re: Doping/enhancement drugs in the NBA?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:27 pm by yaaar

There has to be tons of use going on. I'm pretty sure almost every athlete in the NBA is using something banned on some level, even if it's just something to give them a harder workout for a few hours in the off season or something to recover after a game. It just makes too much sense to do it.

People don't understand how easy it is to use this stuff without getting caught. Even hard core olympic testing is regarded as "more of an IQ test than a drug test" since it's so easy to beat. There are things that only last in your blood for a few hours. How can they catch someone like that when they have to announce tests and athletes are legally allowed to not take a given test for any reason as long as they don't exceed a certain number of denials? It's the dirty secret of every major sport. They have to create the illusion of the players being clean for the sake of the fantasy of the true athlete, but as long as they sell tickets the leagues don't honestly care. The guys that produce this stuff are so far ahead of the testing it's a joke. Which isn't hard to do when no one is actually interested in chasing them. I'm guessing everyone at the top levels are on something. From what I understand high school sports are running rampant with all kinds of stuff right now. You don't think a guy trying to earn an extra 10 million dollars isn't going to inject a little something to get his ankle to heal a bit faster or have a faster turnaround between work outs?
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Post#86 Re: Doping/enhancement drugs in the NBA?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:42 pm by StocktonShorts

You're somewhat right. The leagues definitely care in the abstract, but remember that the type and amount of testing is bargained for during CBA negotiations. If the league wants to do more testing, the players will ask for concessions in other areas.
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Post#87 Re: Doping/enhancement drugs in the NBA?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:07 pm by lawrybeard

Stern knows where the bodies are buried.
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Post#88 Re: Doping/enhancement drugs in the NBA?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:35 pm by EscapoTHB

If players are doping to stay healthy I'm all for it.

Kobe being able to play to 40 is pretty cool.

Its not like baseball where the stats matter.

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Post#89 Re: Doping/enhancement drugs in the NBA?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:51 pm by Thats_my_chippy

Stern want his NBA to be more WWE than NFL.

So what do you think?
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Post#90 Re: Doping/enhancement drugs in the NBA?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:23 am by Alepphe

yaaar wrote:There has to be tons of use going on. I'm pretty sure almost every athlete in the NBA is using something banned on some level, even if it's just something to give them a harder workout for a few hours in the off season or something to recover after a game. It just makes too much sense to do it.

People don't understand how easy it is to use this stuff without getting caught. Even hard core olympic testing is regarded as "more of an IQ test than a drug test" since it's so easy to beat. There are things that only last in your blood for a few hours. How can they catch someone like that when they have to announce tests and athletes are legally allowed to not take a given test for any reason as long as they don't exceed a certain number of denials? It's the dirty secret of every major sport. They have to create the illusion of the players being clean for the sake of the fantasy of the true athlete, but as long as they sell tickets the leagues don't honestly care. The guys that produce this stuff are so far ahead of the testing it's a joke. Which isn't hard to do when no one is actually interested in chasing them. I'm guessing everyone at the top levels are on something. From what I understand high school sports are running rampant with all kinds of stuff right now. You don't think a guy trying to earn an extra 10 million dollars isn't going to inject a little something to get his ankle to heal a bit faster or have a faster turnaround between work outs?


Agreed, if Armstrong managed to get away during his full career from testing in cycling where you have the most tough testing in every sport, definitely they must be having a laugh about NBA testing in comparison. And, if you get caught, you get banned 10 games, lol. What does that mean? Unless you are completely naive, that means the league doesn't care. That said, most of them are probably on the same PEDs program, so to be honest i don't really care as the level playing field must be more or less even, but to see users that post pictures of skinny guys to prove they don't dope, or that believe that in basketball PED don't help is unreal, they might as well believe in Santa. Do you even think all athletes (and let's be honest, not all of them looks so smart) know what exactly they are assuming when they take pills or liquids? Don't you think there is a mutual agreement that they will do what the doctors tell them? I wouldnt be that surprised to know that many players don't even know they are taking PED.
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Post#91 Re: Doping/enhancement drugs in the NBA?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:07 am by Fran Vasquez

armstrong did NOT get away with it per se, he PAID people in the international cycling union to make those positive tests dissappear, he had them on the books, his whole team was protected because he paid the higher ups because that team was making 10 times more money that the other teams put together, he higher in the international cycling union, Mcquaid and Verbruggen, dont want to go to jail and are probably paying back armstrong now so he shuts his pie eating epo swallowing mouth.
But lets get some things clear:
He lied when he said he hadnt been caught, he lied when he said he was not doping on his comeback and then he LIED AGAIN when he said biological passport works and cant be cheated. If he ends up participating in triathlon, with biological passport, he WILL dope again

And this is just from his last interview with oprah.

Im sure basketball players dope, im sure they need doping for both stamina and recuperation times on injuries not just for getting bigger, but the game is still about getting the ball in a very small cilinder and you cant do it one on five, its not the same that in track and field or cycling. Plus crooked refs are 100 times more important on results, that makes doping IRRELEVANT on team sports
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Post#92 Re: Doping/enhancement drugs in the NBA?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:47 am by Alepphe

Fran Vasquez wrote:armstrong did NOT get away with it per se, he PAID people in the international cycling union to make those positive tests dissappear, he had them on the books, his whole team was protected because he paid the higher ups because that team was making 10 times more money that the other teams put together, he higher in the international cycling union, Mcquaid and Verbruggen, dont want to go to jail and are probably paying back armstrong now so he shuts his pie eating epo swallowing mouth.
But lets get some things clear:
He lied when he said he hadnt been caught, he lied when he said he was not doping on his comeback and then he LIED AGAIN when he said biological passport works and cant be cheated. If he ends up participating in triathlon, with biological passport, he WILL dope again

And this is just from his last interview with oprah.

Im sure basketball players dope, im sure they need doping for both stamina and recuperation times on injuries not just for getting bigger, but the game is still about getting the ball in a very small cilinder and you cant do it one on five, its not the same that in track and field or cycling. Plus crooked refs are 100 times more important on results, that makes doping IRRELEVANT on team sports


I agree more or less with what you said about Armstrong; but he did get away with countless test during his career; he was indeed paying money to the UCI and probably getting some favours in return, but to hide PED is easier than people think, otherwise in cycling there would be almost no one left. Also agree with what you say about doping but then you say: "The game is about getting the ball in a cilinder". We all know that and adds nothing to the conversation. As for the referees this has got nothing to do with what we are discussing here and saying that crooked referees makes doping irrelevant is just illogic.
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Post#93 Re: Doping/enhancement drugs in the NBA?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:55 am by JAY DASH

MellowRose wrote:
ozzykhan16 wrote:Who cares, just legalizes PEDs. Lets see how good they can be, and level the playing field.


Lol, people actually have a conscience and believe in something called religion. You can brush those people who don't want anything to do with drugs under the rug, but that would definitely not be leveling the playing field.


What does medicine have to do with religion? You can't go to the doctor if you're a Christian?
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Post#94 Re: Doping/enhancement drugs in the NBA?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:00 pm by Apathy

yaaar wrote:There has to be tons of use going on. I'm pretty sure almost every athlete in the NBA is using something banned on some level, even if it's just something to give them a harder workout for a few hours in the off season or something to recover after a game. It just makes too much sense to do it.

People don't understand how easy it is to use this stuff without getting caught. Even hard core olympic testing is regarded as "more of an IQ test than a drug test" since it's so easy to beat. There are things that only last in your blood for a few hours. How can they catch someone like that when they have to announce tests and athletes are legally allowed to not take a given test for any reason as long as they don't exceed a certain number of denials? It's the dirty secret of every major sport. They have to create the illusion of the players being clean for the sake of the fantasy of the true athlete, but as long as they sell tickets the leagues don't honestly care. The guys that produce this stuff are so far ahead of the testing it's a joke. Which isn't hard to do when no one is actually interested in chasing them. I'm guessing everyone at the top levels are on something. From what I understand high school sports are running rampant with all kinds of stuff right now. You don't think a guy trying to earn an extra 10 million dollars isn't going to inject a little something to get his ankle to heal a bit faster or have a faster turnaround between work outs?


Great post.

We're all in denial about this to varying degrees. Because we love this sport. This is drama to us; soap opera for men. We laugh at women watching soaps but we all do it too. We should at least have the temerity to be honest about it.
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Post#95 Re: Doping/enhancement drugs in the NBA?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:49 pm by gino_giode

There's gotta be a good number of players using TRT. I'm sure there's a doc out there willing to sell for some floor seats and VIP access.
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Post#96 Re: Doping/enhancement drugs in the NBA?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:05 pm by osamu

The refs have more impact on the game then PEDs
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Post#97 Re: Doping/enhancement drugs in the NBA?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:11 pm by BDM22

Fran Vasquez wrote:
Im sure basketball players dope, im sure they need doping for both stamina and recuperation times on injuries not just for getting bigger, but the game is still about getting the ball in a very small cilinder and you cant do it one on five, its not the same that in track and field or cycling. Plus crooked refs are 100 times more important on results, that makes doping IRRELEVANT on team sports


Pro Cycling is most definitely a team sport.
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Post#98 Re: Doping/enhancement drugs in the NBA?
Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:20 pm by theFireBlanket

Nobymoby wrote:
MellowRose wrote:Kevin Durant. His arms...

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Wouldn't be surprised, look at how big his head is.
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