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Why is defense considered ugly?

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Post#16 Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:51 am by fallacy

defensive teams are usually "ugly" because most of the time they are terrible offensive teams. The Clippers are 3rd , Spurs 5th, and the Thunder are 6th in defensive rating. All good defensive teams, none considered "ugly" because they are good offensive teams as well
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Post#17 Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:51 am by bullsnewdynasty

Because Sportscenter only shows dunks and people in general are obsessed with offensive stats. When you break it down, the game is about putting the ball in the basket more than your opponent, and how you get it done doesn't really matter.
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Post#18 Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:57 am by sanctum

Because "defense" just looks like guys missing shots
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Post#19 Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:03 am by kodo

It's only ugly if the defense is the only thing winning the game for you.

MJ's Bulls were dominant defensively and offensively, and nobody considered his brand of basketball ugly.
Miami played great defense in their last 2 years, they were also highly entertaining.
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Post#20 Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:00 am by Nuntius

SniperHawk10 wrote:well sometimes teams just jack up some bad shot attempts and commit unforced turnovers, which doesn't really have to do with the defense of the other team


That happens in a match up between two high octane offensive teams as well. The main difference is that games between two elite defensive teams tend to have a small number of possessions and thus those bad shots are highlighted.

Games between two elite offensive teams (and bad defensive ones) tend to allow a high number of shots so those bad shots are not as highlighted as they are in the other case.
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Post#21 Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:08 am by TwentyOne920

Nuntius wrote:
SniperHawk10 wrote:well sometimes teams just jack up some bad shot attempts and commit unforced turnovers, which doesn't really have to do with the defense of the other team


That happens in a match up between two high octane offensive teams as well. The main difference is that games between two elite defensive teams tend to have a small number of possessions and thus those bad shots are highlighted.

Games between two elite offensive teams (and bad defensive ones) tend to allow a high number of shots so those bad shots are not as highlighted as they are in the other case.


I dunno... pace is important when discussing defensive efficiency, but some teams try and maximize their possession count. The Celtics of old and the Spurs of today are/were elite on defense even if they're near the bottom in offensive rebounding rate.
bertrob wrote:Any casual fan saying anything about Tim Duncan is usually wrong


bobly wrote:Kobe locked up his All Defensive Team this year after he blocked Lebron in the all-star game.
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Post#22 Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:09 am by JoseRizal

It starts to get ugly once the game descends to a free throw shooting contest...
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Post#23 Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:39 am by TwentyOne920

JoseRizal wrote:It starts to get ugly once the game descends to a free throw shooting contest...


Which is why I can't stand watching OKC play despite their league leading offense. :lol:
bertrob wrote:Any casual fan saying anything about Tim Duncan is usually wrong


bobly wrote:Kobe locked up his All Defensive Team this year after he blocked Lebron in the all-star game.
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Post#24 Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:41 am by JoseRizal

TwentyOne920 wrote:
JoseRizal wrote:It starts to get ugly once the game descends to a free throw shooting contest...


Which is why I can't stand watching OKC play despite their league leading offense. :lol:


I saw what you did there... :lol:
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Post#25 Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:50 am by Nuntius

JoseRizal wrote:It starts to get ugly once the game descends to a free throw shooting contest...


That isn't always the case with defensive teams.

Let me give you an example.

The Indiana @ Memphis game yesterday was a match-up against two defensive juggernauts (#1 and #2 defenses, respectively).

It was a very physical game but the two teams combined for 18 total free throws. The teams sumo wrestle'd in the paint but not a lot of shooting falls were called.

And then we also have the Houston @ Charlotte game. Both of these teams are horrible defensively.

James Harden, alone, shot 21 free throws. He had more free throws than both teams in the Indiana @ Memphis game. In overall, Houston and Charlotte combined for 65 free throws in the game.

So, there you have it.

Two defensive teams totalled less free throws than the leading scorer of a high octane offense playing against a bad defense :wink:

Which game was ugly?
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Post#26 Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:52 am by Nuntius

TwentyOne920 wrote:I dunno... pace is important when discussing defensive efficiency, but some teams try and maximize their possession count. The Celtics of old and the Spurs of today are/were elite on defense even if they're near the bottom in offensive rebounding rate.


Pace is important when discussing opponent PPG. Defensive efficiency takes pace into consideration and then we also have opponent FG%, opponent 3p%, points in the paint allowed, fast break points allowed etc. to determine an elite defense.
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Post#27 Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:55 am by TwentyOne920

Nuntius wrote:
JoseRizal wrote:It starts to get ugly once the game descends to a free throw shooting contest...


That isn't always the case with defensive teams.

Let me give you an example.

The Indiana @ Memphis game yesterday was a match-up against two defensive juggernauts (#1 and #2 defenses, respectively).

It was a very physical game but the two teams combined for 18 total free throws. The teams sumo wrestle'd in the paint but not a lot of shooting falls were called.

And then we also have the Houston @ Charlotte game. Both of these teams are horrible defensively.

James Harden, alone, shot 21 free throws. He had more free throws than both teams in the Indiana @ Memphis game. In overall, Houston and Charlotte combined for 65 free throws in the game.

So, there you have it.

Two defensive teams totalled less free throws than the leading scorer of a high octane offense playing against a bad defense :wink:

Which game was ugly?


And you know why? Indiana and Memphis are top 10 teams in opponent FT/FGA, which is another important part of defense.
bertrob wrote:Any casual fan saying anything about Tim Duncan is usually wrong


bobly wrote:Kobe locked up his All Defensive Team this year after he blocked Lebron in the all-star game.
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Post#28 Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:05 am by Nuntius

TwentyOne920 wrote:And you know why? Indiana and Memphis are top 10 teams in opponent FT/FGA, which is another important part of defense.


As a Pacers fan I know that :wink:

However, Charlotte was higher than Memphis before the game and allowed 41 FTs against Houston. But that's just Harden I guess :P
"No wolf shall keep his secrets, no bird shall dance the skyline
And I am left with nothing but an oath that gleams like a sword
To bathe in the blood of man
Mankind..."

She Painted Fire Across the Skyline, Part 3
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Post#29 Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:07 am by Goldtop

I used to get so annoyed in the 00's when they'd have matchups like PHX-GS on ESPN. All the announcers would be all giddy talking about how fun it is to watch run and gun teams. I just could never figure out what was fun about watching a team score against another team that put up no resistance at all on defense.

Watching a team score on a great defense is impressive. Watching teams who play no defense score on each other is not impressive at all to me, and not fun to watch. Might as well watch teams practice shooting in an empty gym.

Grind it out defensive chessmatches are the most compelling games to watch, imo.
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Post#30 Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:08 am by rockmanslim

scoring is perceived as action

scoring = action
defense = the prevention of scoring = the prevention of action

people watch sports to see action

no action = boring

same reason why soccer isn't popular
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"Harden's a guy that averages 26 in the NBA, but if he was on the playground with you he'd only average about 5 because they wouldn't let him get those free throws." --Scott Hastings, April 6, 2013


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Post#31 Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:09 am by Goldtop

Nuntius wrote:
TwentyOne920 wrote:And you know why? Indiana and Memphis are top 10 teams in opponent FT/FGA, which is another important part of defense.


As a Pacers fan I know that :wink:

However, Charlotte was higher than Memphis before the game and allowed 41 FTs against Houston. But that's just Harden I guess :P


yeah, thats part of what makes great defensive battles fun to watch, is that they allow both teams to play physical without calling every little touch foul. One of the reasons I can't stand watching Harden play. I like watching basketball and defense, not a FT shooting contest where you can't brush against the opponent without being called for a foul. Thats not basketball.

The '04 Pistons-Pacers series was one of my favorite series'. If you put Harden in that series he'd probably avg 3-4 FTs/gm. They didn't call anything that series, unless it was a flagrant. One of the rare series where the NBA actually let the teams decide the outcome themselves. Of course that freedom probably led to the Brawl the following year, and then they had to tighten up the rules. But the NBA was a lot more enjoyable before that, imo. Today you have avg offensive players made to look like all-stars simply because you aren't allowed to play defense against them.
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Post#32 Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:18 am by arsenal6106

rockmanslim wrote:scoring is perceived as action

scoring = action
defense = the prevention of scoring = the prevention of action

people watch sports to see action

no action = boring

same reason why soccer isn't popular


You cant be serious?

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Post#33 Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:18 am by Nuntius

rockmanslim wrote:same reason why soccer isn't popular


Soccer isn't popular solely in the USA (and maybe Canada).

In every other place in the world, soccer is the #1 sport more often than not.

And this is coming from a person who dislikes soccer.
"No wolf shall keep his secrets, no bird shall dance the skyline
And I am left with nothing but an oath that gleams like a sword
To bathe in the blood of man
Mankind..."

She Painted Fire Across the Skyline, Part 3
- Agalloch
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Post#34 Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:20 am by Nuntius

Goldtop wrote:Of course that freedom probably led to the Brawl the following year


I think that this was just Ron going crazy.

Awesome avatar, though :lol:
"No wolf shall keep his secrets, no bird shall dance the skyline
And I am left with nothing but an oath that gleams like a sword
To bathe in the blood of man
Mankind..."

She Painted Fire Across the Skyline, Part 3
- Agalloch
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Post#35 Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:22 am by commadoor 64

rockmanslim wrote:scoring is perceived as action

scoring = action
defense = the prevention of scoring = the prevention of action

people watch sports to see action

no action = boring

same reason why soccer isn't popular



Same could be said of eating.
Maybe that's why we Americans are so fat.

Something to chew on anyway....
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