Why is defense considered ugly?
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
- fallacy
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
defensive teams are usually "ugly" because most of the time they are terrible offensive teams. The Clippers are 3rd , Spurs 5th, and the Thunder are 6th in defensive rating. All good defensive teams, none considered "ugly" because they are good offensive teams as well
**** Ron Artest
**** Marco Belinelli
Stephen Jackson aint bout dis lyfe
Patrick Beverly deserves to have his knee ripped to pieces
**** Marco Belinelli
Stephen Jackson aint bout dis lyfe
Patrick Beverly deserves to have his knee ripped to pieces
Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
Because Sportscenter only shows dunks and people in general are obsessed with offensive stats. When you break it down, the game is about putting the ball in the basket more than your opponent, and how you get it done doesn't really matter.
Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
Because "defense" just looks like guys missing shots
Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
It's only ugly if the defense is the only thing winning the game for you.
MJ's Bulls were dominant defensively and offensively, and nobody considered his brand of basketball ugly.
Miami played great defense in their last 2 years, they were also highly entertaining.
MJ's Bulls were dominant defensively and offensively, and nobody considered his brand of basketball ugly.
Miami played great defense in their last 2 years, they were also highly entertaining.
Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
- Nuntius
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
SniperHawk10 wrote:well sometimes teams just jack up some bad shot attempts and commit unforced turnovers, which doesn't really have to do with the defense of the other team
That happens in a match up between two high octane offensive teams as well. The main difference is that games between two elite defensive teams tend to have a small number of possessions and thus those bad shots are highlighted.
Games between two elite offensive teams (and bad defensive ones) tend to allow a high number of shots so those bad shots are not as highlighted as they are in the other case.
"No wolf shall keep his secrets, no bird shall dance the skyline
And I am left with nothing but an oath that gleams like a sword
To bathe in the blood of man
Mankind..."
She Painted Fire Across the Skyline, Part 3
- Agalloch
And I am left with nothing but an oath that gleams like a sword
To bathe in the blood of man
Mankind..."
She Painted Fire Across the Skyline, Part 3
- Agalloch
Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
- TwentyOne920
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
Nuntius wrote:SniperHawk10 wrote:well sometimes teams just jack up some bad shot attempts and commit unforced turnovers, which doesn't really have to do with the defense of the other team
That happens in a match up between two high octane offensive teams as well. The main difference is that games between two elite defensive teams tend to have a small number of possessions and thus those bad shots are highlighted.
Games between two elite offensive teams (and bad defensive ones) tend to allow a high number of shots so those bad shots are not as highlighted as they are in the other case.
I dunno... pace is important when discussing defensive efficiency, but some teams try and maximize their possession count. The Celtics of old and the Spurs of today are/were elite on defense even if they're near the bottom in offensive rebounding rate.
bertrob wrote:Any casual fan saying anything about Tim Duncan is usually wrong
bobly wrote:Kobe locked up his All Defensive Team this year after he blocked Lebron in the all-star game.
Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
- JoseRizal
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
It starts to get ugly once the game descends to a free throw shooting contest...
Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
- TwentyOne920
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
JoseRizal wrote:It starts to get ugly once the game descends to a free throw shooting contest...
Which is why I can't stand watching OKC play despite their league leading offense.
bertrob wrote:Any casual fan saying anything about Tim Duncan is usually wrong
bobly wrote:Kobe locked up his All Defensive Team this year after he blocked Lebron in the all-star game.
Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
- JoseRizal
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
TwentyOne920 wrote:JoseRizal wrote:It starts to get ugly once the game descends to a free throw shooting contest...
Which is why I can't stand watching OKC play despite their league leading offense.
I saw what you did there...
Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
- Nuntius
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
JoseRizal wrote:It starts to get ugly once the game descends to a free throw shooting contest...
That isn't always the case with defensive teams.
Let me give you an example.
The Indiana @ Memphis game yesterday was a match-up against two defensive juggernauts (#1 and #2 defenses, respectively).
It was a very physical game but the two teams combined for 18 total free throws. The teams sumo wrestle'd in the paint but not a lot of shooting falls were called.
And then we also have the Houston @ Charlotte game. Both of these teams are horrible defensively.
James Harden, alone, shot 21 free throws. He had more free throws than both teams in the Indiana @ Memphis game. In overall, Houston and Charlotte combined for 65 free throws in the game.
So, there you have it.
Two defensive teams totalled less free throws than the leading scorer of a high octane offense playing against a bad defense
Which game was ugly?
"No wolf shall keep his secrets, no bird shall dance the skyline
And I am left with nothing but an oath that gleams like a sword
To bathe in the blood of man
Mankind..."
She Painted Fire Across the Skyline, Part 3
- Agalloch
And I am left with nothing but an oath that gleams like a sword
To bathe in the blood of man
Mankind..."
She Painted Fire Across the Skyline, Part 3
- Agalloch
Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
- Nuntius
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
TwentyOne920 wrote:I dunno... pace is important when discussing defensive efficiency, but some teams try and maximize their possession count. The Celtics of old and the Spurs of today are/were elite on defense even if they're near the bottom in offensive rebounding rate.
Pace is important when discussing opponent PPG. Defensive efficiency takes pace into consideration and then we also have opponent FG%, opponent 3p%, points in the paint allowed, fast break points allowed etc. to determine an elite defense.
"No wolf shall keep his secrets, no bird shall dance the skyline
And I am left with nothing but an oath that gleams like a sword
To bathe in the blood of man
Mankind..."
She Painted Fire Across the Skyline, Part 3
- Agalloch
And I am left with nothing but an oath that gleams like a sword
To bathe in the blood of man
Mankind..."
She Painted Fire Across the Skyline, Part 3
- Agalloch
Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
- TwentyOne920
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
Nuntius wrote:JoseRizal wrote:It starts to get ugly once the game descends to a free throw shooting contest...
That isn't always the case with defensive teams.
Let me give you an example.
The Indiana @ Memphis game yesterday was a match-up against two defensive juggernauts (#1 and #2 defenses, respectively).
It was a very physical game but the two teams combined for 18 total free throws. The teams sumo wrestle'd in the paint but not a lot of shooting falls were called.
And then we also have the Houston @ Charlotte game. Both of these teams are horrible defensively.
James Harden, alone, shot 21 free throws. He had more free throws than both teams in the Indiana @ Memphis game. In overall, Houston and Charlotte combined for 65 free throws in the game.
So, there you have it.
Two defensive teams totalled less free throws than the leading scorer of a high octane offense playing against a bad defense
Which game was ugly?
And you know why? Indiana and Memphis are top 10 teams in opponent FT/FGA, which is another important part of defense.
bertrob wrote:Any casual fan saying anything about Tim Duncan is usually wrong
bobly wrote:Kobe locked up his All Defensive Team this year after he blocked Lebron in the all-star game.
Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
- Nuntius
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
TwentyOne920 wrote:And you know why? Indiana and Memphis are top 10 teams in opponent FT/FGA, which is another important part of defense.
As a Pacers fan I know that
However, Charlotte was higher than Memphis before the game and allowed 41 FTs against Houston. But that's just Harden I guess
"No wolf shall keep his secrets, no bird shall dance the skyline
And I am left with nothing but an oath that gleams like a sword
To bathe in the blood of man
Mankind..."
She Painted Fire Across the Skyline, Part 3
- Agalloch
And I am left with nothing but an oath that gleams like a sword
To bathe in the blood of man
Mankind..."
She Painted Fire Across the Skyline, Part 3
- Agalloch
Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
I used to get so annoyed in the 00's when they'd have matchups like PHX-GS on ESPN. All the announcers would be all giddy talking about how fun it is to watch run and gun teams. I just could never figure out what was fun about watching a team score against another team that put up no resistance at all on defense.
Watching a team score on a great defense is impressive. Watching teams who play no defense score on each other is not impressive at all to me, and not fun to watch. Might as well watch teams practice shooting in an empty gym.
Grind it out defensive chessmatches are the most compelling games to watch, imo.
Watching a team score on a great defense is impressive. Watching teams who play no defense score on each other is not impressive at all to me, and not fun to watch. Might as well watch teams practice shooting in an empty gym.
Grind it out defensive chessmatches are the most compelling games to watch, imo.
Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
- rockmanslim
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
scoring is perceived as action
scoring = action
defense = the prevention of scoring = the prevention of action
people watch sports to see action
no action = boring
same reason why soccer isn't popular
scoring = action
defense = the prevention of scoring = the prevention of action
people watch sports to see action
no action = boring
same reason why soccer isn't popular
click
"Harden's a guy that averages 26 in the NBA, but if he was on the playground with you he'd only average about 5 because they wouldn't let him get those free throws." --Scott Hastings, April 6, 2013
"Harden's a guy that averages 26 in the NBA, but if he was on the playground with you he'd only average about 5 because they wouldn't let him get those free throws." --Scott Hastings, April 6, 2013
Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
Nuntius wrote:TwentyOne920 wrote:And you know why? Indiana and Memphis are top 10 teams in opponent FT/FGA, which is another important part of defense.
As a Pacers fan I know that
However, Charlotte was higher than Memphis before the game and allowed 41 FTs against Houston. But that's just Harden I guess
yeah, thats part of what makes great defensive battles fun to watch, is that they allow both teams to play physical without calling every little touch foul. One of the reasons I can't stand watching Harden play. I like watching basketball and defense, not a FT shooting contest where you can't brush against the opponent without being called for a foul. Thats not basketball.
The '04 Pistons-Pacers series was one of my favorite series'. If you put Harden in that series he'd probably avg 3-4 FTs/gm. They didn't call anything that series, unless it was a flagrant. One of the rare series where the NBA actually let the teams decide the outcome themselves. Of course that freedom probably led to the Brawl the following year, and then they had to tighten up the rules. But the NBA was a lot more enjoyable before that, imo. Today you have avg offensive players made to look like all-stars simply because you aren't allowed to play defense against them.
Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
- arsenal6106
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
rockmanslim wrote:scoring is perceived as action
scoring = action
defense = the prevention of scoring = the prevention of action
people watch sports to see action
no action = boring
same reason why soccer isn't popular
You cant be serious?
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
- Nuntius
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
rockmanslim wrote:same reason why soccer isn't popular
Soccer isn't popular solely in the USA (and maybe Canada).
In every other place in the world, soccer is the #1 sport more often than not.
And this is coming from a person who dislikes soccer.
"No wolf shall keep his secrets, no bird shall dance the skyline
And I am left with nothing but an oath that gleams like a sword
To bathe in the blood of man
Mankind..."
She Painted Fire Across the Skyline, Part 3
- Agalloch
And I am left with nothing but an oath that gleams like a sword
To bathe in the blood of man
Mankind..."
She Painted Fire Across the Skyline, Part 3
- Agalloch
Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
- Nuntius
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
Goldtop wrote:Of course that freedom probably led to the Brawl the following year
I think that this was just Ron going crazy.
Awesome avatar, though
"No wolf shall keep his secrets, no bird shall dance the skyline
And I am left with nothing but an oath that gleams like a sword
To bathe in the blood of man
Mankind..."
She Painted Fire Across the Skyline, Part 3
- Agalloch
And I am left with nothing but an oath that gleams like a sword
To bathe in the blood of man
Mankind..."
She Painted Fire Across the Skyline, Part 3
- Agalloch
Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
- commadoor 64
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Re: Why is defense considered ugly?
rockmanslim wrote:scoring is perceived as action
scoring = action
defense = the prevention of scoring = the prevention of action
people watch sports to see action
no action = boring
same reason why soccer isn't popular
Same could be said of eating.
Maybe that's why we Americans are so fat.
Something to chew on anyway....