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Nuntius wrote:

TwentyOne920 wrote:And you know why? Indiana and Memphis are top 10 teams in opponent FT/FGA, which is another important part of defense.

As a Pacers fan I know that

However, Charlotte was higher than Memphis before the game and allowed 41 FTs against Houston. But that's just Harden I guess

yeah, thats part of what makes great defensive battles fun to watch, is that they allow both teams to play physical without calling every little touch foul. One of the reasons I can't stand watching Harden play. I like watching basketball and defense, not a FT shooting contest where you can't brush against the opponent without being called for a foul. Thats not basketball.

The '04 Pistons-Pacers series was one of my favorite series'. If you put Harden in that series he'd probably avg 3-4 FTs/gm. They didn't call anything that series, unless it was a flagrant. One of the rare series where the NBA actually let the teams decide the outcome themselves. Of course that freedom probably led to the Brawl the following year, and then they had to tighten up the rules. But the NBA was a lot more enjoyable before that, imo. Today you have avg offensive players made to look like all-stars simply because you aren't allowed to play defense against them.

rockmanslim wrote:scoring is perceived as action

scoring = action
defense = the prevention of scoring = the prevention of action

people watch sports to see action

no action = boring

same reason why soccer isn't popular

You cant be serious?

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rockmanslim wrote:same reason why soccer isn't popular

Soccer isn't popular solely in the USA (and maybe Canada).

In every other place in the world, soccer is the #1 sport more often than not.

And this is coming from a person who dislikes soccer.

Goldtop wrote:Of course that freedom probably led to the Brawl the following year

I think that this was just Ron going crazy.

Awesome avatar, though

rockmanslim wrote:scoring is perceived as action

scoring = action
defense = the prevention of scoring = the prevention of action

people watch sports to see action

no action = boring

same reason why soccer isn't popular

Same could be said of eating.
Maybe that's why we Americans are so fat.

Something to chew on anyway....

Also it takes a lot more energy to play good defense than to play offense, since backpeddling and side to side motion is not as natural as running forward, so once the defensive team gets to the other side of the ball they have much less energy to play offense...tired players are sloppy on offense.

Nuntius wrote:

Goldtop wrote:Of course that freedom probably led to the Brawl the following year

I think that this was just Ron going crazy.

that too.

GIFSoup

I still can't figure out what posessed that Pistons fan to go up and challenge Artest for no reason. lol

arsenal6106 wrote:

rockmanslim wrote:scoring is perceived as action

scoring = action
defense = the prevention of scoring = the prevention of action

people watch sports to see action

no action = boring

same reason why soccer isn't popular

You cant be serious?

Sent from my VM670 using Tapatalk 2

Nuntius wrote:

rockmanslim wrote:same reason why soccer isn't popular

Soccer isn't popular solely in the USA (and maybe Canada).

In every other place in the world, soccer is the #1 sport more often than not.

And this is coming from a person who dislikes soccer.

Yeah, sorry, I meant in the US and A, soccer isn't popular.


Low scoring basketball games are seen as dreadful for the reason I mentioned. Spurs were seen as boring when they were the slowest paced team in the league. JVG's Knicks and Rockets were notoriously slow paced and seen as boring. Scoring = action (or it's at least perceived as such), remember that kids.

rockmanslim wrote:Spurs were seen as boring when they were the slowest paced team in the league.

The thing is that the Spurs were never boring

I get disgusted watching teams who don't try on the defensive side of the ball.

Because it is ? I'd much rather watch a fast paced game with good offense than watch teams walk the ball up the floor and use up 22 seconds on the shot clock while throwing up airballs.

It's ugly the same way that a fight is ugly- physical, brutal, ect. It's not finesse, it's hustle, muscle, and heart. I love watching defense and I don't mind when people call it ugly.

Artistry, style and creativity are huge reasons why basketball is such a compelling sport. Perhaps my favorite thing about the game is watching incredible athletes -- the list is endless for me, going back to when I first started watching in the late 80s -- doing incredible things, and that typically, but not always, happens on the offensive end.

Defense obviously has its place in the game, and is a critical factor in winning. It doesn't necessarily have to be ugly. There have been a couple of Memphis/Spurs games this season that were very physical but highly entertaining to watch.

But defense also inhibits the things I enjoy most about the game. When that is combined with borderline ineptitude on offense, as is the case with the Pacers -- you couldn't pay me to watch that.

Sedale Threatt wrote:When that is combined with borderline ineptitude on offense, as is the case with the Pacers -- you couldn't pay me to watch that.

We shall keep our money then

Because oftentimes there's no flow to the game an no spectacular plays happening. The NBA is still about putting butts in seats

No one considered the 01 Sixers ugly back in the day, despite low FG% and defense to death. Why? Because they had a dazzling player in Iverson that made them watchable.

Likewise, no one thought of the 2012 Heat as an ugly team last year. They played great defensive and they still were highly entertaining because of their transition and drive-and-dish game.

Early 00s Spurs is the defintion of boring. Good D to make up for very bad offense outside of anything Tim
Duncan created. And even with Timmy (who I personally love to watch go to work, was considered boring my 90% of non-Spurs homers because he wasn't flashy and probably dunked like twice a year)

The Celtics have also rarely been a boring team, despite having league best defenses since 08. Ray, PP, Rondo and to some extent KG just made their brand of ball entertaining.

I never thought the Spurs were as bad as everyone thought. What typically hurt them was that, outside of the Pistons in 05, they were playing crappy teams in the Finals, their big opportunity to showcase themselves.

And that Pistons/Spurs series, as competitive as it was, was brutal to watch because you had two world-class defenses choking each other out.

I don't care what anyone says -- going eight, nine possessions in a row with no points isn't exciting to watch. That happened pretty much every quarter in that series.

An aside, Tim Duncan is my litmus test for basketball acumen. People who think he's boring obviously don't know anything about hoops, and our discussion can end there.

The defense isn't ugly, the opposing offense that results from the defense is ugly. But many times ugly games aren't just defense, but a mixture of really good defense and sloppy/bad offense. What is ugly isn't the really good defense, it is the sloppy / bad offense.

If you are moving the ball well and the defense just closes out and makes you take tough shots, that isn't ugly, just good defense. If you are playing iso ball and missing and wildly driving into traffic and getting turnovers and throwing awful passes, that's just ugly no matter what the defense is doing.

...but yes, slow paced defensive battles isn't really "fun" to watch. You can commend it, but it certainly isn't exciting to see two teams shoot 35% FG and score 40 points at half time.

Bskey wrote:The "goal" in basketball is to score.

In any scoring based sport, scoring is what truly excites people. This is something most definitely not unique to basketball.

Actually the "Goal" in basketball is to hold your opponents from scoring more than you

rizkid92 wrote:

Bskey wrote:The "goal" in basketball is to score.

In any scoring based sport, scoring is what truly excites people. This is something most definitely not unique to basketball.

Actually the "Goal" in basketball is to hold your opponents from scoring more than you

Why even do this? Neither of you is wrong, the goal is to have more points in the end. Whether you do it by aiming to score much more effectively or aiming to prevent your opponents from scoring as effectively, or best of all, both, as long as the end result is you with more points.