Apathy wrote:What he is now.
What's Lillard's ceiling?
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Re: What's Lillard's ceiling?
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Re: What's Lillard's ceiling?
nuposse04 wrote:Rotanimod wrote:Let's put it this way, I wouldn't take pick 1-5 over Lillard right now.
Hindsight is 20/20
He's better than them all right now, but he doesn't have the ceiling of Davis, MKG or Beal. They desperately need a bench for him, I personally think they're asking a lot of him in his rookie campaign.
Not sure about MKG and Beal...I'd say Lillard is right up there with them. I agree that Davis has a higher ceiling though.
"They say you miss 100% of the shots you take" - Mike James
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Re: What's Lillard's ceiling?
I guess the 'rule' is you have to come up with a player that plays the same position for a comparative ceiling. I'm not sure that's the best hypothetical
I'd say the ceiling for Lillard is something on the level of a healthy Brandon Roy. Obviously, Roy was a bigger player physically, playing a different position. But they share many of the same traits. Both play the game at their own pace and speed. Both are adept at using their left hands, especially to finish close to the basket. Roy was more successful at the rim after absorbing contact, but not so much his rookie season
and both have the types of games that caused a lot of people to underrate their athleticism, mainly because neither player used highlight reel athleticism too often, even though they both possess those abilities
and it's also true that both entered the league as 4 year college players making many people assume, incorrectly in Roy's case, that they were already close to their ceilings in their rookie seasons.
this isn't to say that Lillard will definitely become as good as Roy. By his 3rd season, Roy was arguably a top-10 player, and certainly top-15. Just that the primary characteristics that made Roy unique, Lillard tends to share
I'd say the ceiling for Lillard is something on the level of a healthy Brandon Roy. Obviously, Roy was a bigger player physically, playing a different position. But they share many of the same traits. Both play the game at their own pace and speed. Both are adept at using their left hands, especially to finish close to the basket. Roy was more successful at the rim after absorbing contact, but not so much his rookie season
and both have the types of games that caused a lot of people to underrate their athleticism, mainly because neither player used highlight reel athleticism too often, even though they both possess those abilities
and it's also true that both entered the league as 4 year college players making many people assume, incorrectly in Roy's case, that they were already close to their ceilings in their rookie seasons.
this isn't to say that Lillard will definitely become as good as Roy. By his 3rd season, Roy was arguably a top-10 player, and certainly top-15. Just that the primary characteristics that made Roy unique, Lillard tends to share
Re: What's Lillard's ceiling?
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Re: What's Lillard's ceiling?
MellowRose wrote:mj23foreva wrote:I dunno...strength and conditioning? Footwork? SHooting? Defense? Skills? Athleticism is a whole different beast. You cant just take an nonathletic person and make them athletic. You think you can just turn a dirk into a durant? Athleticism is a gift youre born with. You can improve it by mastering what you already have but you cant have more. Its like height. You can improve how to use your height to your advantage but you cant get more height.
You can work on your explosiveness, first step, and vertical jump, and how you finish at the basket - All things Rose does phenomenally, and all things Lillard can work at to become the next Rose.
You can't improve your vertical and explosiveness to the point where one could go from Lillard athleticism to Rose/Westbrook athleticism...I can't tell if you're serious right now.
suckfish wrote:Reminder: NBA players are stupid.
Re: What's Lillard's ceiling?
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Re: What's Lillard's ceiling?
A prime Chauncey Billups with hops
TreadMilling Since 1995
Darain wrote:Dude is like 6-10, 6-12 at the most
But he is definitely not 7 foot
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Re: What's Lillard's ceiling?
Wizenheimer wrote:I'd say the ceiling for Lillard is something on the level of a healthy Brandon Roy.
and both have the types of games that caused a lot of people to underrate their athleticism, mainly because neither player used highlight reel athleticism too often, even though they both possess those abilities
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uAbdiCOJZM[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0uX820eRZQ[/youtube]
April 4, 2014:
Earlier on December 8, 2013:
HotrodBeaubois wrote:I never said Dallas was good as Portland
Earlier on December 8, 2013:
HotrodBeaubois wrote:That's the Whole Point Portland is No better than Dallas
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Re: What's Lillard's ceiling?
CousinOfDeath wrote:MellowRose wrote:mj23foreva wrote:I dunno...strength and conditioning? Footwork? SHooting? Defense? Skills? Athleticism is a whole different beast. You cant just take an nonathletic person and make them athletic. You think you can just turn a dirk into a durant? Athleticism is a gift youre born with. You can improve it by mastering what you already have but you cant have more. Its like height. You can improve how to use your height to your advantage but you cant get more height.
You can work on your explosiveness, first step, and vertical jump, and how you finish at the basket - All things Rose does phenomenally, and all things Lillard can work at to become the next Rose.
You can't improve your vertical and explosiveness to the point where one could go from Lillard athleticism to Rose/Westbrook athleticism...I can't tell if you're serious right now.
I'm serious. As I've said before, I haven't seen much of Lillard to say much about his athleticism or his overall game, and that's why I'm asking you guys. As soon as he broke out earlier this season and even during the draft, a lot of people compared him to Westbrook and Rose, and judging from what you guys are saying, his athleticism is nowhere near their's.
You can work on your explosiveness, speed, and vertical and he can get up to Rose's level depending upon his existing athleticism, which again, from you guys sounds like it's not very high.
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Re: What's Lillard's ceiling?
bibby with more athleticism
Re: What's Lillard's ceiling?
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Re: What's Lillard's ceiling?
Lillard ceiling = PRIME Stephan Marbury without the BS
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd4GLpNqxos[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd4GLpNqxos[/youtube]
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Re: What's Lillard's ceiling?
Better shooting prime Stephon Marbury
Billups didn't put up the numbers Lillard is until he was 28. I hate that comparison
Billups didn't put up the numbers Lillard is until he was 28. I hate that comparison
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- vexen
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Re: What's Lillard's ceiling?
Truth is Lillard is his own man but comparing him to Rose or Billups is just wrong they just don't play the same. Lillards game is VERY similar to Marburys and even impacted the league the same way when he entered in.
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A better Tim Hardaway.
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Re: What's Lillard's ceiling?
Stephon Marbury was 19 as a rookie. Chauncey was 21.
Were there any other 22 year old drafted rookies in the 2012 draft besides Lillard?
ETA: I was just wondering how many players were as old as Lillard on draft night. These are oftentimes the ones most polished entering the league.
I checked. Players drafted in the 1st round other than Lillard that were 22 on draft night were..
Tyler Zeller
Andrew Nicholson
Fab Melo
Miles Plumlee
Festus Ezeli
Were there any other 22 year old drafted rookies in the 2012 draft besides Lillard?
ETA: I was just wondering how many players were as old as Lillard on draft night. These are oftentimes the ones most polished entering the league.
I checked. Players drafted in the 1st round other than Lillard that were 22 on draft night were..
Tyler Zeller
Andrew Nicholson
Fab Melo
Miles Plumlee
Festus Ezeli
Re: What's Lillard's ceiling?
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Re: What's Lillard's ceiling?
MellowRose wrote:You can work on your explosiveness, speed, and vertical and he can get up to Rose's level depending upon his existing athleticism, which again, from you guys sounds like it's not very high.
I think you've forgotten what Rose looks like on the court. Lillard cannot get to that level. The Billups comparison is inaccurate as well. Marbury sounds about right.
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Re: What's Lillard's ceiling?
CousinOfDeath wrote:MellowRose wrote:mj23foreva wrote:I dunno...strength and conditioning? Footwork? SHooting? Defense? Skills? Athleticism is a whole different beast. You cant just take an nonathletic person and make them athletic. You think you can just turn a dirk into a durant? Athleticism is a gift youre born with. You can improve it by mastering what you already have but you cant have more. Its like height. You can improve how to use your height to your advantage but you cant get more height.
You can work on your explosiveness, first step, and vertical jump, and how you finish at the basket - All things Rose does phenomenally, and all things Lillard can work at to become the next Rose.
You can't improve your vertical and explosiveness to the point where one could go from Lillard athleticism to Rose/Westbrook athleticism...I can't tell if you're serious right now.
His max vert was half an inch less than Rose in the combine and his standing vert the same. It's not impossible. No he's not overall as athletic as Rose but people act like he's Andre Miller out there.
Oh that's right, Lillard stayed in school so his ceiling is automatically lower. He's been better than a majority of PGs since day 1 but since he's already the ANCIENT age of 22 there's no way he could improve. That's when all players peak especially rookies.
Did I sum up the thread nicely?
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Re: What's Lillard's ceiling?
Lillard has a 40 inch vertical but it doesnt look he knows how to use it at will like Rose or Westbrook. His arms look shorter than those guys and he has less fluidity and control on his layups. He seems way smaller than Rose and Westbrook do when attacking the basket.
He can improve, yeah but definitely nothing close to the point of a Derrick Rose or even Westbrook.
And a lot of you guys need to stop looking at athletes like machines. Just because he spends time exercising doestn mean he can eventually achieve a level of athleticism of someone way more athletic and fluid. I doubt his body has way more potential to be explosive. He is 22 and im sure does a lot of workouts as his trainers advice him to so he can be the best athlete he is capable of being.
He can improve, yeah but definitely nothing close to the point of a Derrick Rose or even Westbrook.
And a lot of you guys need to stop looking at athletes like machines. Just because he spends time exercising doestn mean he can eventually achieve a level of athleticism of someone way more athletic and fluid. I doubt his body has way more potential to be explosive. He is 22 and im sure does a lot of workouts as his trainers advice him to so he can be the best athlete he is capable of being.
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Re: What's Lillard's ceiling?
Bskey wrote:
His max vert was half an inch less than Rose in the combine and his standing vert the same. It's not impossible. No he's not overall as athletic as Rose but people act like he's Andre Miller out there.
Oh that's right, Lillard stayed in school so his ceiling is automatically lower. He's been better than a majority of PGs since day 1 but since he's already the ANCIENT age of 22 there's no way he could improve. That's when all players peak especially rookies.
Did I sum up the thread nicely?
pretty much
it's another reason why I used the Brandon Roy comparison. The same silly stuff was said about Roy not being athletic and that he was at his peak as a rookie.
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Re: What's Lillard's ceiling?
kevin durant... the point guard version
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Realgm has a fascination with ceilings and floors
I heard mofos saying they made Kobe/ Made Kobe say, "Ok so, make another Kobe"
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Re: What's Lillard's ceiling?
Copperhead wrote:Stephon Marbury was 19 as a rookie. Chauncey was 21.
Were there any other 22 year old drafted rookies in the 2012 draft besides Lillard?
ETA: I was just wondering how many players were as old as Lillard on draft night. These are oftentimes the ones most polished entering the league.
I checked. Players drafted in the 1st round other than Lillard that were 22 on draft night were..
Tyler Zeller
Andrew Nicholson
Fab Melo
Miles Plumlee
Festus Ezeli
Damian was 21 when he was drafted. Didn't turn 22 until Summer League.
Being a Blazer fan isn't exactly healthy.