How come Indy gets no love as a Dark Horse?

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Re: How come Indy gets no love as a Dark Horse? 

Post#21 » by TwentyOne920 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:19 pm

Nuntius wrote:
Money23 wrote:they need an upgrade at the PG position for them to be truly be great


Indiana needs a PG that can run the PnP, not turn the ball over, defend and score. And that's what they have in George Hill. Any PG that comes in Indy is not going to average a high number of assists because the team runs most of its offense through the post.


This is also exactly why Tony Parker didn't average a lot of assists earlier in his career. Of course David West is no Tim Duncan but he's not chopped liver in the post either.

Of course, Hill got mentored by Parker and Manu Ginobili...
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Re: How come Indy gets no love as a Dark Horse? 

Post#22 » by Tetlak » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:20 pm

They dont have a star on offense. Granger is a chucker and George is pretty good, but doesnt have the necessary shot creation ability.
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Re: How come Indy gets no love as a Dark Horse? 

Post#23 » by Nuntius » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:27 pm

MVP Rose wrote:IMO, there's a better chance that they lose the division than win it. With Rose's impending return, I don't see Chicago losing the central.


Interesting. Isn't Rose supposed to return after the ASG? That's what the Wiretap said yesterday.

According to all sources, Granger will return prior to the ASG. So, during that time Indy could take a bigger lead on the Central.

There is also another question. Will Rose be close to 100% when he returns? It's well established that basketball players that suffered an ACL injury return to 100% in their 2nd year and not immediatedly after the end of the rehabilitation period.

Also, how will Rose adapt to a potential loss of athleticism? Will he invent an old-man game to fall back on?

There are still several questions about Rose's recovery, imo.

Granger's injury is not as serious. He will probably not be 100% the moment he returns either but he will be 100% sooner than Rose due to the different nature of the injuries. Plus, Granger already has an old man's game to fall back on in case the injury causes a loss of athleticism.

MVP Rose wrote:I posted this a couple days ago but I also think when Granger comes back, Indy will take major steps backward defensively. Will his offense be enough to offset that and make them a better team overall? It probably will, but we'll just have to see


Why do you think that? Granger is a better defender than Stephenson (who is doing great in his absence). With Granger in the line-up instead of Stephenson we add even more size and length in our line-up.
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Re: How come Indy gets no love as a Dark Horse? 

Post#24 » by Nuntius » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:29 pm

TwentyOne920 wrote:This is also exactly why Tony Parker didn't average a lot of assists earlier in his career. Of course David West is no Tim Duncan but he's not chopped liver in the post either.

Of course, Hill got mentored by Parker and Manu Ginobili...


Exactly :wink:

I just wish that we could use the offensive plays that you use :(
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Re: How come Indy gets no love as a Dark Horse? 

Post#25 » by TwentyOne920 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:36 pm

Nuntius wrote:
TwentyOne920 wrote:This is also exactly why Tony Parker didn't average a lot of assists earlier in his career. Of course David West is no Tim Duncan but he's not chopped liver in the post either.

Of course, Hill got mentored by Parker and Manu Ginobili...


Exactly :wink:

I just wish that we could use the offensive plays that you use :(


Hibbert better start finishing very well. Of course, the reason the Spurs offense works is because of how blindingly fast Parker is. :lol:

Nevertheless the Pacers remind me of the mid 2000s Pistons. Great defense, so-so offense (though Detroit was at least around average).
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Re: How come Indy gets no love as a Dark Horse? 

Post#26 » by kamelion4291 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:39 pm

They have the 2nd worst offense in the NBA, an easy strength of schedule, and they couldn't even beat Miami in a playoff series without Bosh, let alone with him. I feel like this was an obvious answer.
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Re: How come Indy gets no love as a Dark Horse? 

Post#27 » by Nuntius » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:43 pm

TwentyOne920 wrote:Hibbert better start finishing very well. Of course, the reason the Spurs offense works is because of how blindingly fast Parker is. :lol:

Nevertheless the Pacers remind me of the mid 2000s Pistons. Great defense, so-so offense (though Detroit was at least around average).


We were above average last year with Granger. So, the hope is that Granger will be able to take us around average :)
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Re: How come Indy gets no love as a Dark Horse? 

Post#28 » by Nuntius » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:03 pm

kamelion4291 wrote:an easy strength of schedule


Most Eastern teams are going to have an easy strength of schedule due to the East's bottom feeders.

Also, out of the 4 Eastern Conference that Indy would have to face 3 times instead of 4, Indy drew Miami, Boston, Brooklyn and Orlando.

By the end of their Western Conference trip (remaining games @ Portland, @ Utah and @ Denver) the Pacers will have played 26 road games and 19 home games. That means that after the trip, they are due to play 22 home games and only 15 road games.

Combine it with the fact that Indy is 16-3 at home. The conclusion is that Indy's schedule is not going to get tougher.
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Re: How come Indy gets no love as a Dark Horse? 

Post#29 » by Ginobili » Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:25 pm

I havent been paying attention to the Indiana Pacers in a while, but im surprised with their record.

I should catch some games to see how Paul George is doing and what kind of game and style he has, because honestly, ive barely watched anything from him this year. I keep hearing the Mcgrady comparisons, but i find it hard to believe he can reach that level or has that talent in him.
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Re: How come Indy gets no love as a Dark Horse? 

Post#30 » by daschysta » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:15 pm

Kobe Bean wrote:They'd probably be contenders if Granger was fully healthy and Hibbert had taken steps forward as opposed to forgetting what to do with a basketball in his hands

As of now, I don't see them getting past healthy Bulls or the playoff version of Miami.


It will be interesting to see. Granger IS expected to be back and at 100 percent after he gets his conditioning back, and the rest should do wonders for the nagging injuries that he was playing through before. Hibbert isn't scoring well in the post still, some of that is an injured wrist, some of it is just missing bunnies inexplicably. He has shown positive signs though, he has averaged 14.5/11.3/ 3.7 blocks per 36, more importantly on 48 percent from the field. He's still not as reliable from the block as he was last season, but if he can keep up his play from January thus far I think that's adequate, but whether he keeps it up is an IF. His defense has been massively improved either way.

Granger will be the key. If he plays like he did Post All-Star break last season (19.4 ppg on 45/41/90) I think the Pacers can contend legitimately, especially since his presence will open up the floor tremendously for Paul George and David West, both of whom are massively improved this season over the last.

I don't advocate that they would be favorites over Miami in the playoffs or a fully healthy bulls team with Derrick Rose, but their chances to upset either one of them is not insignificant.

As for the low SOS, you only play the games you are given, and it is slightly countered by Indy having so many more road games than home games, they play their next 3 on the road, and then they are at home virtually all of February, and should be able to run up their record considering they are 16-3 at home and have won 11 straight there. They are 12-6 versus the West too, which should count for something, considering how most people see that conference as vastly superior.

Ginobili wrote:I havent been paying attention to the Indiana Pacers in a while, but im surprised with their record.

I should catch some games to see how Paul George is doing and what kind of game and style he has, because honestly, ive barely watched anything from him this year. I keep hearing the Mcgrady comparisons, but i find it hard to believe he can reach that level or has that talent in him.


He has the potential to be a top 10 player in the league. HE's a defensive player of the year candidate and an elite rebounder and good 3 point shooter who is fast enough to get into the lane. Once he starts getting more respect from the officials he'll be a 20+ ppg scorer without too much trouble.

Over the last 24 games (since he broke out) He's posted

19.78 ppg
8.7 rpg
4.04 apg
2.1 spg
.8 bpg

on .445/.384/ 85 from the field the 3 and the line, while giving you arguably the best perimeter D in the league both man to man and from a team perspective.
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Re: How come Indy gets no love as a Dark Horse? 

Post#31 » by illiance » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:49 pm

They don't have a actual All-Star. Roy Hibbert doesn't count. They don't have a top 25/30 player in the league. How many teams with those credentials (or lack of) have made it to even the ECF? Off the top of my head, none. It's a stars league and if you don't have one, you have no chance.
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Re: How come Indy gets no love as a Dark Horse? 

Post#32 » by daschysta » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:53 pm

Paul George is a top 30 player this season overall despite his slow start and has been playing like a top 15-20 player since he began to break out (19.8/8.7/4.1 with 2.1 steals on 44.5/38.4 while playing the best perimeter defense in the NBA). Also the notion that Indiana, who starts 4 players (assuming George makes it as projected this season) who have been all-stars since 2008 and none of whom are exactly over the hill, have "no real all-stars" is a bit comical. David West is a 2 time all-star, and is putting up better all-around numbers than he did last time he made the Western All-Stars, while having a career year defensively. Danny Granger is still a guy that can put up 20-30 any given night and who has been a consistent 20 ppg scorer for years, and Hibbert, while his offensive struggles have been evident (though showing signs of improvement as his wrist heals) is an elite defensive anchor and offensive rebounder. This Pacers teams is hardly devoid of talent.
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Re: How come Indy gets no love as a Dark Horse? 

Post#33 » by panthermark » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:10 pm

Will Granger be on the team after the trade deadline?
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Re: How come Indy gets no love as a Dark Horse? 

Post#34 » by Ronito » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:23 pm

The offense.
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Re: How come Indy gets no love as a Dark Horse? 

Post#35 » by RatherUnique » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:29 pm

They are the 29th best offense in the league & Granger will only marginally improve that.

You're not beating Miami & OKC with such a pitiful offense.

The same reason why Memphis isn't a legit contender either. The offense is too putrid.
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Re: How come Indy gets no love as a Dark Horse? 

Post#36 » by Ronito » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:30 pm

Their bench is also horrendous. It's a shame Gerald Green flamed out.
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Re: How come Indy gets no love as a Dark Horse? 

Post#37 » by daschysta » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:52 pm

RatherUnique wrote:They are the 29th best offense in the league & Granger will only marginally improve that.

You're not beating Miami & OKC with such a pitiful offense.

The same reason why Memphis isn't a legit contender either. The offense is too putrid.


That remains to be seen (the effect Granger has on their offense). The Pacers were top 10 offensively last season, despite West still recovering from surgery and Paul George not being nearly what he is today. One would think that Granger can get them at least playing around average offensively with a better supporting cast this season than last if they were top 10 then.
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Re: How come Indy gets no love as a Dark Horse? 

Post#38 » by Jake0890 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:54 pm

Ronito wrote:Their bench is also horrendous. It's a shame Gerald Green flamed out.


Looks like you have no idea what you're talking about. Mahinmi has played great, Augustin has really started pulling his weight around here recently, Hansbrough still has his spazzmatic play, and Stephenson is only in the starting lineup due to Granger's injury. I'll give you that Gerald Green has been bad, but other than that, you're wrong.
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Re: How come Indy gets no love as a Dark Horse? 

Post#39 » by panthermark » Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:04 pm

Is Granger going to start or come off the bench? If he starts, will that move George back to SG? Pretty tall line-up....but I think the Pacers would be better served with Granger coming off the bench as a scorer/stretch 4.
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Re: How come Indy gets no love as a Dark Horse? 

Post#40 » by Jake0890 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:20 pm

panthermark wrote:Is Granger going to start or come off the bench? If he starts, will that move George back to SG? Pretty tall line-up....but I think the Pacers would be better served with Granger coming off the bench as a scorer/stretch 4.


You could probably assume Granger will come off the bench when he returns because he will be restricted to a certain amount of minutes each night, but when he gets healthy, it's anyone's guess. It'll be interesting to see what happens though.

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