Austin Rivers has historically worst season so far

reapaman · Post #81 » by **reapaman** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:42 pm

Austin rivers played in the nba more in 3 games than Kendall Marshall has all season. This is blasphemy!!!

Too be fair to rivers .... Kemba Walker had a historically bad season last year and was being called by nealy everyone a bust but now he is putting up near allstar numbers. Just let the guy play. The suns should be doing this instead of letting telfair troll us all.

Free Marshall!!!!

kakaman · Post #82 » by **kakaman** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:51 pm

reapaman wrote:Austin rivers played in the nba more in 3 games than Kendall Marshall has all season. This is blasphemy!!!

Too be fair to rivers .... Kemba Walker had a historically bad season last year and was being called by nealy everyone a bust but now he is putting up near allstar numbers. Just let the guy play. The suns should be doing this instead of letting telfair troll us all.

Free Marshall!!!!

That's not true. People were getting on Kemba because they had the historical worst team last season. He had really poor efficiency, but he had absolutely no talent around him. Now he has MKG helping take the load some. What excuse does Rivers have? NO has really good pieces and would probably be a playoff team if they played in the East.

Post #83 » by **C.lupus** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:06 pm

Even Minnesota's picks that someone else owns turn out to be busts. smh

SWedd523 · Post #84 » by **SWedd523** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:13 pm

Hard to be a good scorer/shooter when your form looks like this:

karkinos · Post #85 » by **karkinos** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:14 pm

im surprised it doesnt spin sideways like noah's shot

Post #86 » by **Doctor MJ** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:20 pm

reapaman wrote:Too be fair to rivers .... Kemba Walker had a historically bad season last year and was being called by nealy everyone a bust but now he is putting up near allstar numbers. Just let the guy play. The suns should be doing this instead of letting telfair troll us all.

Just want to make clear about "historically" bad. Let's compare PERs.

Avergae NBA player: 15.0
Rookie Kemba: 14.9
Rookie Telfair: 9.7
Rookie Austin: 5.2

To put it in perspective: If Austin improved enough to make him as "bad" as rookie Kemba Walker, this would be the equivalent of Kemba Walker one day improving to the point where he was a legit superstar.

On the other hand, if Telfair is still in the league after all this time, it's possible people will keep signing Rivers too.

sp6r=underrated · Post #87 » by **sp6r=underrated** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:33 pm

Back off of Austin. He is a shoe-in for rookie of the year. It's been decades since a rookie turned in a season quite like this.

Jon1798 · Post #88 » by **Jon1798** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:34 pm

crowd goes wild wrote:I'm over 9000% dead serious when I say that I'd rather have Rivers run the backup point than Brian Roberts. And I've seen every Pelicans game this season except for maybe 2.

I have also seen every single game Austin has played in this season. And I completely agree, the Hornets would be much much better with Austin running the backup point than Brian Roberts, ala the guy who is 8th amongst rookies in PER. But most on this board haven't watched but maybe a single game this season. I would say every Hornets fan would say the same and has been begging for that on the forums.

Cocky, one on one, selfish, uncoachable, etc etc etc. Just absolutely couldn't be further from the truth. Even someone only looking at stats should be able to see this. Really seperates those who have watched him from those who haven't. Austin's problem is not being aggressive. He has shown way too many bouts of tentative play. When he has been into the game, and has been aggressive, he's looked more than capable of being a good player in this league.

I really don't understand why people are so infatuated with minutes and the D-league, etc. The Hornets only have Vasquez, Roberts, Gordon, Rivers and Mason as guards on the roster. Eric Gordon missed half of the season thus far, Roberts is awful, and Mason is nothing more than a solid vet. Of course Rivers was going to get minutes early on. He was thrown to the wolves, starting. Now that Gordon is back, he has averaged only 14.8 minutes in January. There is no substituting playing in the NBA. The best way to learn the NBA is to play in the NBA. The D-league is for guys that can't get minutes, or young guys on contending teams that can't withstand the growing pains. The Hornets have neither luxury.

Austin is learning on the fly here. He is literally working on things like his floater while playing actual NBA basketball games. Austin's problems thus far have been much more mental than they have been physical. He's been plenty quick, shown great handles and a great first step and ability to beat his man. But his confidence is down, he's terrified of making a mistake, and flat out uncomfortable standing at the free throw line with everyone watching.

This same board stood here and said Vasquez was trash, Aminu was awful/should have stayed in school/didn't belong in the league, Ryan Anderson was one of the worst offseason signings, Robin Lopez was awful, Eric Gordon would never play again, and on and on. The board is good at tearing people down, and incapable of admitting they're wrong. I'm sure there won't be anyone here that will come back to give Rivers credit. We already saw that when he was playing well earlier and the mods had to lock the thread.

EzeDoesIt · Post #89 » by **EzeDoesIt** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:36 pm

Stats don't account for heart or defense...Rivers is a lot better than the stats say.

ManualRam · Post #90 » by **ManualRam** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:11 pm

EzeDoesIt wrote:Stats don't account for heart or defense...Rivers is a lot better than the stats say.

heart doesn't matter if you play tentative with no confidence.
he's also a poor defender.

so maybe he's worse than the stats say.

Jon1798 · Post #91 » by **Jon1798** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:21 pm

ManualRam wrote:
EzeDoesIt wrote:Stats don't account for heart or defense...Rivers is a lot better than the stats say.

heart doesn't matter if you play tentative with no confidence.
he's also a poor defender.

so maybe he's worse than the stats say.

His defense has been just "OK". He's proven to be quick enough to stay in front of PG's, which was a pleasant surprise to me. In fact, he's stayed in a couple of games instead of Vasquez when Greivis couldn't keep a guy in front of him. But he needs to get much stronger. NBA players are used to finishing with contact. Austin needs to be able to let them know he's there. Right now it seems like many bigger guys pay no mind to him. And he definitely struggled early on with his ball rotations, but that's gotten much better.

For all everyone said about how it was crazy to play him at PG, Austin looks every bit of a PG and not a SG thus far in his career.

Durant Durant · Post #92 » by **Durant Durant** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:21 pm

SWedd523 wrote:Hard to be a good scorer/shooter when your form looks like this:

he should be suspended for wearing a shooting sleeve.

abUser · Post #93 » by **abUser** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:29 pm

How old is he? + what history while he is a kid?

Ok. IBe4 some1 says "History don't lie", where's the exit door?

ratul · Post #94 » by **ratul** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:38 pm

I actually thought this kid was going to be ok when he was coming out of high school - then he was awful at duke and I thought, hmm, maybe he not as good but still a solid pro.

I saw him play the raps in a tight game and I thought to myself - he needs to play more because he is horrible.

Good good does he suck - his decision making is atrocious and he is turnover machine. I guess I should not be stunned given the increasing negative sentiment but to be honest, I never thought he would be this bad.

hail to chad ford.

HornetJail · Post #95 » by **HornetJail** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:42 pm

He isn't NBA-ready. He should spend plenty of time in the D-League.

ManualRam · Post #96 » by **ManualRam** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:46 pm

Jon1798 wrote:
ManualRam wrote:
EzeDoesIt wrote:Stats don't account for heart or defense...Rivers is a lot better than the stats say.

heart doesn't matter if you play tentative with no confidence.
he's also a poor defender.

so maybe he's worse than the stats say.

His defense has been just "OK". He's proven to be quick enough to stay in front of PG's, which was a pleasant surprise to me. In fact, he's stayed in a couple of games instead of Vasquez when Greivis couldn't keep a guy in front of him. But he needs to get much stronger. NBA players are used to finishing with contact. Austin needs to be able to let them know he's there. Right now it seems like many bigger guys pay no mind to him. And he definitely struggled early on with his ball rotations, but that's gotten much better.

For all everyone said about how it was crazy to play him at PG, Austin looks every bit of a PG and not a SG thus far in his career.

IMO, the only reason why they would put him as a PG is because he'd get physically dominated by SGs.
Last time I checked his overall PPP against was somewhere in the 300s range in terms of player ranking, I doubt it's changed all that much.

As far as his PG instincts go, I don't see any. I think that's one of the main reasons why he's playing tentatively. He's on the floor trying to think like a PG, but he doesn't have the instincts, so what follows is dribbling with no purpose and passes that don't shift the defense. For the first time in his life it looks like he's trying to play for others, but it's so foreign to him. He's not only trying to get accustomed to playing in the NBA, he's also getting accustomed to playing a completely new style of basketball which, IMO, doesn't suit him. What made Austin special as a HS player wasn't his skill level, athleticism or physical tools, it was his aggressiveness and fearlessness. Those latter attributes made him appear better than he really was. Take away a lot of that aggressiveness (which seems to be by his own volition) and you get a smallish combo with a questionable skillset and bball iq trying to make good decisions.

karkinos · Post #97 » by **karkinos** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:56 pm

Jon1798 wrote:Austin is learning on the fly here. He is literally working on things like his floater while playing actual NBA basketball games. Austin's problems thus far have been much more mental than they have been physical. He's been plenty quick, shown great handles and a great first step and ability to beat his man. But his confidence is down, he's terrified of making a mistake, and flat out uncomfortable standing at the free throw line with everyone watching.

This same board stood here and said Vasquez was trash, Aminu was awful/should have stayed in school/didn't belong in the league, Ryan Anderson was one of the worst offseason signings, Robin Lopez was awful, Eric Gordon would never play again, and on and on. The board is good at tearing people down, and incapable of admitting they're wrong. I'm sure there won't be anyone here that will come back to give Rivers credit. We already saw that when he was playing well earlier and the mods had to lock the thread.

how can you give rivers any credit? he dug himself a deep ditch. his PER is 5. not 10. not 15. you may be able to get away with 10 in saying he has some upside, but PER 5 with heavy minutes is outrageously bad.

rivers literally has the instinct to do the exact opposite of what you want him to do. just when you think he's gonna shoot he'll pass and when he drives to the bucket it's like a turnover/free rebound for the other team.

TheDon008 · Post #98 » by **TheDon008** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:56 pm

Didnt skip BASELESS say he has top 10 in the league potential?

Jon1798 · Post #99 » by **Jon1798** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:04 pm

ratul wrote:I actually thought this kid was going to be ok when he was coming out of high school - then he was awful at duke and I thought, hmm, maybe he not as good but still a solid pro.

I saw him play the raps in a tight game and I thought to myself - he needs to play more because he is horrible.

Good good does he suck - his decision making is atrocious and he is turnover machine. I guess I should not be stunned given the increasing negative sentiment but to be honest, I never thought he would be this bad.

hail to chad ford.

He's averaging just over 1 turnover a game. He scored in double digits every game but 4 as a true freshman at Duke, in the ACC. And the last time he played the Raptors he had 11 points on 5-12 from the field(41.7%).

Jon1798 · Post #100 » by **Jon1798** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:25 pm

cancer wrote:how can you give rivers any credit? he dug himself a deep ditch. his PER is 5. not 10. not 15. you may be able to get away with 10 in saying he has some upside, but PER 5 with heavy minutes is outrageously bad.

rivers literally has the instinct to do the exact opposite of what you want him to do. just when you think he's gonna shoot he'll pass and when he drives to the bucket it's like a turnover/free rebound for the other team.

Well, I'm not sure what you mean by credit. Austin has had his struggles. But he also just crossed the midway point of his first season. And I've also watched him extensively and not just by his numbers. Plus I don't have this deep down burning desire to see a 20 year old kid fail like most of this board. Just gives my posts a different tone.

Austin has a lot of talent, and Monty is one of the better teachers this league has, IMO. Aminu and Vasquez are a few seasons in and just starting to show signs of life. You would be an idiot to disregard a kid like Austin only 43 games in.