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JV looks good, but he's closer to being the next Ilgauskas or Rik Smits than being the next Dirk.

He will be a very good Center for a long time like those 2 were, but he's not the player you build a team around whos going to lead you to a championship. I avoid foriegn bigs at all costs. History shows they don't win NBA championships. Dirk is a rare exception.

Hendrix wrote:I'm not exactly sure who you are talking to here.

However, you should probably temper your expecations a bit. Drummond is not a once in a generation talent, and any talk of Shaq, Hakeem, or Jabbar is ridiculous at this point.

Also, i like Hibbert. He's a great defender. But, Val's potential is significantly higher imo. Val is 20 years old, and already a significantly better offensive player.

I don't think Valanciunas's ceiling is "significantly" higher than Hibbert. This is a guy who anchors the best defense in the league and has finally found his offense, putting up 16/8/3 post-all star break.

I agree Dre isn't a once in a generation talent, and I'll be quick to point out that he is not a franchise player yet, and it's too early to predict that, but here's why so many people are gushing over his potential:

He's 300lbs, quicker laterally than just about any bigman. He's ridiculsouly quick. In fact, his 3/4 court sprint is .05 seconds slower than Damian Lillard's and his lane agility is actually faster. That's a PG we are talking about here. Obviously Drummond covers more ground, but it's still impressive nonetheless. Also, at this point his contribution is about where most people expected him to be in his 3rd year, or 2nd year at best. He has a huge impact on the game without being an offensive threat. He already has more of an impact on the game than any other player on the roster and he still has the following to improve:

Any semblance of an offense game
Free throw shooting
Man to man defense (already pretty good.)

So the fact that he's doing all this with all of those holes in his game is crazy. He has so much room to improve.

MrBigShot wrote:

Hendrix wrote:I'm not exactly sure who you are talking to here.

However, you should probably temper your expecations a bit. Drummond is not a once in a generation talent, and any talk of Shaq, Hakeem, or Jabbar is ridiculous at this point.

Also, i like Hibbert. He's a great defender. But, Val's potential is significantly higher imo. Val is 20 years old, and already a significantly better offensive player.

I don't think Valanciunas's ceiling is "significantly" higher than Hibbert. This is a guy who anchors the best defense in the league and has finally found his offense, putting up 16/8/3 post-all star break.

I agree Dre isn't a once in a generation talent, and I'll be quick to point out that he is not a franchise player yet, and it's too early to predict that, but here's why so many people are gushing over his potential:

He's 300lbs, quicker laterally than just about any bigman. He's ridiculsouly quick. In fact, his 3/4 court sprint is .05 seconds slower than Damian Lillard's and his lane agility is actually faster. That's a PG we are talking about here. Obviously Drummond covers more ground, but it's still impressive nonetheless. Also, at this point his contribution is about where most people expected him to be in his 3rd year, or 2nd year at best. He has a huge impact on the game without being an offensive threat. He already has more of an impact on the game than any other player on the roster and he still has the following to improve:

Any semblance of an offense game
Free throw shooting
Man to man defense (already pretty good.)

So the fact that he's doing all this with all of those holes in his game is crazy. He has so much room to improve.

You don't have to sell me on Drummond. I love the guy. I'm just tempering a guy that was bringing up names like Shaq, Hakeem, and Kareem. Most of my family are Detroit sports fans (and they are my 2nd team), so I've seen quite a bit of his games this year.


Personally I think Val has a higher ceiling than Hibbert. Hibbert is for sure a great defender. However, Val has some pretty good upside in that department as well. Not Hiberts level, but he could be very good in that department. But, the offensive gap is pretty big imo when you are looking at potential. Hibbert puts up a very inefficient 16 points per 36. He has a career .515ts%, which is pretty bad and as a 26 year old you really can't expect much improvement there. Val in the last 13 games has been putting up the same volume of 16.7 points per 36 but he's been doing it with .740ts%. That's pretty phenomenal efficiency. Imo Val's scoring projects to be significantly more efficient than Hibberts.

Goldtop wrote:JV looks good, but he's closer to being the next Ilgauskas or Rik Smits than being the next Dirk.

He will be a very good Center for a long time like those 2 were, but he's not the player you build a team around whos going to lead you to a championship. I avoid foriegn bigs at all costs. History shows they don't win NBA championships. Dirk is a rare exception.

i disagree Gold, i think JV is definitely a franchise center, but i don't think Tor knows how to develop their players. Not trolling, see Ed Davis, Bargs etc

Brapman wrote: That's just nuts.

Drummond's a once in a generation talent and by far one of the best C prospects the league has ever seen. The question for him is whether he can get to Shaq, Hakeem, Jabbar levels or whether he ceiling's out at Howard level.

Ease up cowboy, if anything, "That's just nuts." And don't get me wrong, I LOVE Drummond (and I would take him over JV easily). He could very well be the best big man drafted from this generation......... but to say:

Dwight Howard as a Floor

Once in a generation Talent (Not sure if you're takling about Centres, or in General. N.B. Lebron James).

We're talking about a generation who has had Dwight Howard and Greg Oden as Centre prospects (when thinking about Oden, focus on the original talent, not injuries). Now Drummond could definitely be better (if he's healthy he's already better than Oden essentially), but to say this so early is naive. For starters, if he gets cronic injuries, good luck to him reaching the "Dwight Howard - Floor" status. (I sincerely hope he stays healthy, FYI).

Drummond is a freak, and has absolutely ridiculous potential, but to mention Dwight Howard as a FLOOR when Drummond's only been averaging 20 MPG in his rookie season is once again, just naive.

In my eyes, I still draft Anthony Davis over Andre Drummond, and that isn't the hardest decision for me to make.

I don't understand these "hope Drummond can stay healthy" comments. There's really nothing to indicate that he's injury prone or will have "cronic injuries" at all. He's had, what, 3 injuries since sophomore year of HS(broken nose, rolled ankle and the tailbone). Two of which were basically freak injuries.

dmize wrote:I don't understand these "hope Drummond can stay healthy" comments. There's really nothing to indicate that he's injury prone or will have "cronic injuries" at all. He's had, what, 3 injuries since sophomore year of HS(broken nose, rolled ankle and the tailbone). Two of which were basically freak injuries.

The "Drummond and Healthy" comments are 100% hypothetical.

The fact of the matter is it is entirely relevant when comparing a Rookie whose played 20 MPG to all time greats who had generally healthy careers spanning 15 years.

Dame Lizard wrote:

dmize wrote:I don't understand these "hope Drummond can stay healthy" comments. There's really nothing to indicate that he's injury prone or will have "cronic injuries" at all. He's had, what, 3 injuries since sophomore year of HS(broken nose, rolled ankle and the tailbone). Two of which were basically freak injuries.

The "Drummond and Healthy" comments are 100% hypothetical.

The fact of the matter is it is entirely relevant when comparing a Rookie whose played 20 MPG to all time greats who had generally healthy careers spanning 15 years.

Fair enough, not directed towards your post then; but after his injury there was articles/posts wondering if he'll always have back issues, which was annoying.

^i concur. It is too early. For now, I'm just happy to have him. Comparing him to those guys is setting him up for failure. Those guys are another level in terms of skill and physical dominance. Shaq was as dominant physically as anyone. Hakeem had great physical tools, but his post skill & defensive instincts made him truly special. Kareem was a giant and had the most unstoppable shot in basketball.

Dwight is a 3 time DPOY...if Dre ever sniffs that level I'll be ecstatic.

Goldtop wrote:JV looks good, but he's closer to being the next Ilgauskas or Rik Smits than being the next Dirk.

He will be a very good Center for a long time like those 2 were, but he's not the player you build a team around whos going to lead you to a championship. I avoid foriegn bigs at all costs. History shows they don't win NBA championships. Dirk is a rare exception.

This is one of the dumbest posts I've read on this forum. History shows most players don't win championships including some great ones (Barkley, Stockton, Malone, Nash). Do you realize how few teams have won championships in the past 20 years? The logic here is just awful.

Nevermind the fact that one of the best european bigs was a huge part of both Lakers championships.

No one is even making the argument that Drummond or Val will lead their teams to championships just what their ceilings are as players. Single players by and large aren't capable of that. Not even Shaq.

Once in a generation talent. Shaq/Kareem/Hakeem. Floor is Dwight Howard.

orangeparka wrote:Once in a generation talent. Shaq/Kareem/Hakeem. Floor is Dwight Howard.

i do not condone that statement

This thread is filled with so much fail.

Someone start a new thread.