Did Golden State really turn down a trade for James Harden?

[Slava]

I'm actually surprised that the Warriors haven't paid luxury tax in a long time, considering the contracts they have given out and the way they used their amnesty provision.

[Honey Bear]

At the rim: 60.9%

In the paint: 34.5%

mid-range: 37.3%

corner 3: 37.5%

beyond the break 3: 35.9%

what did i say that was wrong?

I'm confused. Why is this a bad thing again? Do Free Throws no longer count as points?

Lol in my idea of a good player playing to intentionally get to the line isn't something I value highly. His trademark move of intentionally holding the ball as far away from his body as possible is the most annoying and skill-less play I've ever seen. As a fan I'd like to see players try to play basketball, not refball.

Regardless maybe I'll use another thread for my opinion of Harden, I'll leave this one for discussion of this supposed trade.

To wrap up: I'm a golden state fan (and celtics) and would not want james harden as the best player on my team. Houston will never contend with Harden as their best player. How amazing of him to turn a .500 team from last year into a .500 team this year! Amazing!

It's always best to ignore ballboys on RealGM.

Yes. Genuine, new posters should be completely disregarded for having a differing opinion from you.

I don't really know where to begin. He doesn't "intentionally" get to the line. He's crafty in the way that he gets to the rim and people hack and foul him a lot. Sometimes he gets the benefit of the whistle by just bumping into a guy similar to how Durant draws his fouls, but you're knocking him for being aggressive. You also called him a mediocre 3 point shooter, which isn't really true either.

You not wanting James Harden as your first option is fine, that's you.

But you saying Houston won't be a contender with Harden as their best player is laughable. You really have no basis for it either. Your reasoning for that is pretty much the fact that you hate the way he plays.

lol.. and about the .500 comment. 95% of the Rockets team from last year isn't even on the roster for this year's team. While the Rockets might be overachieving, to say it isn't amazing to see how Harden is leading a team that has the 2nd toughest schedule thus far is just stupid IMO. The Rockets are the youngest team in the league with a brand new roster. To be 8th in the WESTERN, not eastern, conference is solid.

[timlin500]

Imagine a Curry and Harden backcourt. They fit perfectly together. However if you were the Thunder would you take the Rockets offer or Klay and Barnes?

[TaylorMonkey]

Bizarre. I just proposed that building a team would be easy if OKC wanted Klay for Harden in the Moreyball thread. Didn't know it was ever on the table.

We didn't have the appealing picks and expiring contracts to make it work though.

[JH5]

James harden is the most overrated player in the NBA.

Shoots garbage from anywhere except the rim, stats hugely inflated by freethrow attempts, when he drives to the rim he reaches his arm out with the intent of having his arm be hit and flails in attempt to get a call rather than protecting the ball in his pocket and trying to actually score. He's bad from mid range, mediocre from 3, at rim stats inflated by fouls, and highly turnover prone. His raw stats are also largely inflated by pace.

I hate everything about his play style.

no thx.

the only thing that would make me like him is that his driving style would be a perfect match for curry. I would never want him as a first option on a contending team though.

I agree with everything said here, and I'll also add that he plays no defense. You can't be a franchise player if you play no defense. Sorry to the Harden lovers, but its true. But I'm not surprised by the casual fan reaction to him because thats how its always been in the NBA. If you put up big offensive numbers, thats all fanboys care about, and defense is not required by most fans to be considered a star, franchise player, etc, even though in reality its absolutely required if you ever want to win a championship.

that's fine! we will have harden you keep Steph curry!

haha they guy who plays no defense was the guy who OKC look to to defend LeBron in the finals last year, yeah Durant wouldn't do it.


so by your logic Durant doesn't equal franchise player cos of defense.

[22haytham22]

I highly doubt it

[CablexDeadpool]

Harden is overrated.


The way Harden plays isn't a way he is gonna win.

First he is turnover prone, second he's a 3 point chucker, third he can't shoot the off the dribble midrange shot, 4th he is dependent on the refs entirely and if the refs allow opponents to really play Harden...he's NBA Finals Harden and a total joke of a player.

But who knows, maybe he is gonna get superstar calls now...wait he already gotten superstar calls his entire career...but maybe he'll get them against other stars now. Because he gets ridiculous calls..even Lebron has stopped getting calls.

Lol but Bradley Beal for James Harden omg, I would do that in a heartbeat.

But freaking Klay Thompson and other pieces for James Harden...hell no.

[Flash Falcon X]

Harden is overrated.


The way Harden plays isn't a way he is gonna win.

First he is turnover prone, second he's a 3 point chucker, third he can't shoot the off the dribble midrange shot, 4th he is dependent on the refs entirely and if the refs allow opponents to really play Harden...he's NBA Finals Harden and a total joke of a player.

But who knows, maybe he is gonna get superstar calls now...wait he already gotten superstar calls...but maybe he'll get them against other stars.

Lol but Bradley Beal for James Harden omg, I would do that in a heartbeat.

But freaking Klay Thompson and other pieces for James Harden...hell no.

I don't know. It's not like Klay Thompson and Harrison Barnes are studs, either. Even if Harden is overrated, I still could see him making an impact in Golden State.

[Archerbro]

RealGM was laughing at MJ for trying to trade his lotto pick for Harden last year, but now everyone acts like they always knew Harden would blow up to this level.

Thank you!! hindsight is so ridiculous around here. There were some people here who thought OKC won that trade of Harden, which who knows in the end we still havent even seen the finishing pieces of the trade. Could you imagine if they would have ended up with KLay and Barnes? People here would have been lol'ing at the Warriors.

Lets just give props to Houston and Morey instead of putting all these other GMs and teams on blast

Harden's efficiencies basically pointed to, "hey this guy is a near elite, he's just coming off the bench for a contender).

Alot of us blasted OKC for it, I still think it hurt them. Can they win the title still? absolutely, but i think they win more/and or guarantee a title by keeping him. (guarantee as in, they would've won at least 1 title, even if they do or do not win this year).

[TaylorMonkey]

I don't really know where to begin. He doesn't "intentionally" get to the line. He's crafty in the way that he gets to the rim and people hack and foul him a lot. Sometimes he gets the benefit of the whistle by just bumping into a guy similar to how Durant draws his fouls, but you're knocking him for being aggressive. You also called him a mediocre 3 point shooter, which isn't really true either.

Harden definitely intentionally gets to the line. And he definitely flails when when hopes for/anticipates contact. He is always looking for contact and friendly whistles. There was a possession against Barnes where Barnes didn't bite for anything and stopped him cold-- then Harden failed on his shot with zero contact. It was flop-warning-worthy.

You don't lead the league in free throws by a fair margin and not realize that's your strength and what you should be trying to do.

I hate watching the guy play human missile. It's lame basketball and infuriating, but that's a player I'd like on the Warriors where we have weak slashing and are always at a free throw disparity. And I like how he does finish with contact, unlike Klay who both misses the layup and fails to get the call.

[fatal9]

Harden is basically the perfect two guard to pair with Curry. Curry's one weakness is that while he has good handles and can get in the lane when he picks his spots, he doesn't have the physical talent to attack defenses off the dribble at will (which happens to be Harden's elite skill). Klay Thompson right now is just a shooter with terrible shot selection, he'll be a good starter/scorer eventually, but he doesn't compliment Curry's game as well as you'd like imo. Harden would bring a different, much needed dimension to GSW's offense.

[Archerbro]

Harden is overrated.


The way Harden plays isn't a way he is gonna win. do you mean a finals mvp, or winning a title in general? eitherway this is such a general statement that you can say about most guys in this league sans a few.

First he is turnover prone, second he's a 3 point chucker, third he can't shoot the off the dribble midrange shot, 4th he is dependent on the refs entirely and if the refs allow opponents to really play Harden...he's NBA Finals Harden and a total joke of a player. Harden gets alot of his calls by nifty tricks, and getting the defender to bite on the steal (he does this alot with his eurostep). Harden just played bad int he 2012 finals.

But who knows, maybe he is gonna get superstar calls now...wait he already gotten superstar calls his entire career...but maybe he'll get them against other stars now. Because he gets ridiculous calls..even Lebron has stopped getting calls. eehhh?

Lol but Bradley Beal for James Harden omg, I would do that in a heartbeat.

But freaking Klay Thompson and other pieces for James Harden...hell no.

It depends on the klay thompson for harden, if it's just that and a pick and some throw ins. sure

if it's klay thompson AND barnes, yes i do think GS would have to think about that. it's not easy.

[CablexDeadpool]

I don't know. It's not like Klay Thompson and Harrison Barnes are studs, either. Even if Harden is overrated, I still could see him making an impact in Golden State.

I wouldn't do a Klay Thompson and Harrison Barnes trade.

I mean, I guess that's what they would've wanted and that's waaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much.

I would laugh and put the phone down.

I didn't even think Harrison Barnes would be that good considering seeing him in college he looked like trash because he couldn't dribble at all...like dude couldn't put the ball down and he didn't even look athletic.

But in the NBA will all the spacing, he looks pretty athletic and fluid now.

And Klay Thompson is pretty good, he can really shoot the ball, he can learn how to get to the line and flop his way to some easily points, he is a 25 a game scorer.

Then you would have to think...is it better to have James Harden and Curry and some crappy SF or you rather have Curry, Klay Thompson and Harrison Barnes...and cap room in the future to get a David Lee replacement and a PF?

I rather have the cap room Curry Klay and Barnes.

[CablexDeadpool]

Harden is overrated.


The way Harden plays isn't a way he is gonna win. do you mean a finals mvp, or winning a title in general? eitherway this is such a general statement that you can say about most guys in this league sans a few.

First he is turnover prone, second he's a 3 point chucker, third he can't shoot the off the dribble midrange shot, 4th he is dependent on the refs entirely and if the refs allow opponents to really play Harden...he's NBA Finals Harden and a total joke of a player. Harden gets alot of his calls by nifty tricks, and getting the defender to bite on the steal (he does this alot with his eurostep). Harden just played bad int he 2012 finals.

But who knows, maybe he is gonna get superstar calls now...wait he already gotten superstar calls his entire career...but maybe he'll get them against other stars now. Because he gets ridiculous calls..even Lebron has stopped getting calls. eehhh?

Lol but Bradley Beal for James Harden omg, I would do that in a heartbeat.

But freaking Klay Thompson and other pieces for James Harden...hell no.

It depends on the klay thompson for harden, if it's just that and a pick and some throw ins. sure

if it's klay thompson AND barnes, yes i do think GS would have to think about that. it's not easy.

Lebron James at his peak went to the line 10 times a game, then it went down to 8 now it's at the lowest ever at 7 and some how he still maintains getting 25 a game while shooting 18 shots.

You telling the biggest dude in the NBA, a dude that plays in the post, a dude that gets hit more than anybody gets to the line now 7 times a game. And he is playing in the paint the most he has ever played in his entire career.

I seen KD shoot nothing but jumpshots and missing them and he ends up with 40 points, it was the recent Heat game and I never seen that ever in my life watching Basketball

James Harden can eurostep his way into points in the regular season...against the Heat in the playoffs ..he got nothing and his entire game fell apart because he can't shoot the midrange jumper off the dribble.

[ComboGuardCity]

Curry
Harden
Barnes
Lee
Bogut

That's better than the Clippers IMO.

[Sasaki]

James Harden can eurostep his way into points in the regular season...against the Heat in the playoffs ..he got nothing and his entire game fell apart because he can't shoot the midrange jumper off the dribble.

Tell that to the Thunder. Harden doesn't look to shoot midrange jumpers off the dribble because generally you can get better shots than midrange jumpers off the dribble. Whether it's passing to an open 3 pointer, taking his own 3 pointer, or barreling to the rim, those are all better options.

And no, congratulations. I will concede that James Harden is in fact worse than Lebron James and is highly unlikely to defeat Miami by himself. Clearly this means that he is not a franchise player.

And Klay Thompson is pretty good, he can really shoot the ball, he can learn how to get to the line and flop his way to some easily points, he is a 25 a game scorer.

Maybe Klay Thompson can be a 25 point a game scorer ( though generally jump shooters do not draw fouls so your "he can flop his way" is pretty silly) But guess who IS a 25 a game scorer?

It's also kind of funny to hear "Harden has only led the Rockets to a .500 record" when even after the Thunder trade, most people figured Houston would win about 30 games anyways.

[Flash Falcon X]

I don't know. It's not like Klay Thompson and Harrison Barnes are studs, either. Even if Harden is overrated, I still could see him making an impact in Golden State.

Then you would have to think...is it better to have James Harden and Curry and some crappy SF or you rather have Curry, Klay Thompson and Harrison Barnes...and cap room in the future to get a David Lee replacement and a PF?

I rather have the cap room Curry Klay and Barnes.

Actually, I think Brandon Rush -- the player who would be replacing Harrison Barnes at SF-- would most likely be better than Barnes this season. Not a crappy SF at all.

Harrison Barnes still can't dribble and always turns the ball over in traffic whereas Brandon Rush is a better ball handler, much more efficient shooter, and is a more effective slasher than Barnes. If Barnes got traded, that probably means Brandon Rush wouldn't have had his freak injury that ended his season.

Like I said in an earlier post, I like Harden more than Klay and I like Rush more than Barnes.

With that said, Harrison Barnes does have a lot of potential and will eventually get better than Brandon Rush once he gains more experience. Also, Klay can be a big scorer like you said. He's a little one dimensional right now, but he's starting to be more aggressive by slashing to the rim.

Another important factor that you mentioned is the cap space. Both Klay and Barnes are still on their rookie contracts. In the future, keeping Klay and Barnes might be a good thing, but we'll just have to wait and see.

[TaylorMonkey]

Like I said in an earlier post, I like Harden more than Klay and I like Rush more than Barnes.

I even like Rush more than Klay. Way more efficient shooter, and pretty much does everything else better.

[CablexDeadpool]

Tell that to the Thunder. Harden doesn't look to shoot midrange jumpers off the dribble because generally you can get better shots than midrange jumpers off the dribble. Whether it's passing to an open 3 pointer, taking his own 3 pointer, or barreling to the rim, those are all better options.

And no, congratulations. I will concede that James Harden is in fact worse than Lebron James and is highly unlikely to defeat Miami by himself. Clearly this means that he is not a franchise player.

Maybe Klay Thompson can be a 25 point a game scorer ( though generally jump shooters do not draw fouls so your "he can flop his way" is pretty silly) But guess who IS a 25 a game scorer?

It's also kind of funny to hear "Harden has only led the Rockets to a .500 record" when even after the Thunder trade, most people figured Houston would win about 30 games anyways.

He doesn't shoot jumpers off the dribble because uh he can't. He never been an off the dribble player, his entire basketball career he pretty much be a 3 or drive and flail guy - Just like Ginobli and Ginobli can't hit the midrange off the dribble either.

See here
http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=James%20Harden

http://hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Manu%20Ginobili

Players that hit the midrange off the dribble are extremely elite offensive players...like Kobe, Lebron, Mid 2000s DWade, Tracy Mcgrady, Kevin Durant, Kyrie Irving.

See here
http://hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=LeBron%20James
http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?nam ... %20Anthony
http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Kevin%20Durant
http://hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Kyrie%20Irving

Because that's a shot you can't stop. You can't stop someone from just isoing you and busting a midrange shot in your face or coming off the pick and roll. It's not Whistle Dependent, it isn't dependent on your teammates finding you spotting up or posting up - it's all you.

When James Harden can't get a call...he is trash...it's that simple and the Finals proved it.

And Kevin Durant and Kevin Martin are jumpshooters that did flop their way to 25 points a game.

[CCM721]

Tell that to the Thunder. Harden doesn't look to shoot midrange jumpers off the dribble because generally you can get better shots than midrange jumpers off the dribble. Whether it's passing to an open 3 pointer, taking his own 3 pointer, or barreling to the rim, those are all better options.

And no, congratulations. I will concede that James Harden is in fact worse than Lebron James and is highly unlikely to defeat Miami by himself. Clearly this means that he is not a franchise player.

Maybe Klay Thompson can be a 25 point a game scorer ( though generally jump shooters do not draw fouls so your "he can flop his way" is pretty silly) But guess who IS a 25 a game scorer?

It's also kind of funny to hear "Harden has only led the Rockets to a .500 record" when even after the Thunder trade, most people figured Houston would win about 30 games anyways.

He doesn't shoot jumpers off the dribble because uh he can't. He never been an off the dribble player, his entire basketball career he pretty much be a 3 or drive and flail guy - Just like Ginobli and Ginobli can't hit the midrange off the dribble either.

See here
http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=James%20Harden

http://hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Manu%20Ginobili

Players that hit the midrange off the dribble are extremely elite offensive players...like Kobe, Lebron, Mid 2000s DWade, Tracy Mcgrady, Kevin Durant, Kyrie Irving.

See here
http://hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=LeBron%20James
http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?nam ... %20Anthony
http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Kevin%20Durant
http://hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Kyrie%20Irving

Because that's a shot you can't stop. You can't stop someone from just isoing you and busting a midrange shot in your face or coming off the pick and roll. It's not Whistle Dependent, it isn't dependent on your teammates finding you spotting up or posting up - it's all you.

When James Harden can't get a call...he is trash...it's that simple and the Finals proved it.

And Kevin Durant and Kevin Martin are jumpshooters that did flop their way to 25 points a game.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/ivAQsfXKuFo
http://www.youtube.com/embed/MPyQayf8vpc

I also watched him drain two daggers against the Thunder on Wednesday, off the dribble.

People who say things like this clearly don't watch James Harden on a regular basis.