The Pacers Core (a clinic in how to build without tanking)

[GreenBloodedC]

Still mad at Larry for not giving us West. LOL

But he's a genius at everything that has to do w/ Basketball

[Sabzi]

A thread to celebrate purgatory.

A 50+ caliber team that is younger on average than Oklahoma City, who is doing it all without their best offensive player is purgatory? That's news to me... I guess we should all just drop everything and root for Miami, because OKC certainly has a worse chance at knocking them off than Indiana does.

The regular season means nothing. Wake me up when they make a Finals.

[TwentyOne920]

^ They have as many Finals appearances as OKC (not counting Seattle for this exercise).

[justinian]

There's another GEM in this Pacers that is not named Paul George.

His name is Lance Stephenson. He will be a bigger star than PG

[durden_tyler]

Build what? Mediocrity? When did the Pacers become legit contenders?

who is a legit contender besides Heat in the East then?At least they are in about 1000 better position than Wizards who according to tank-lovers should already be contenting since they landed that 1st pick and got their franchise player.

Yes, just the Heat actually.

So yeah, mediocrity.

Yes, you could be worse and in the lottery but without a real superstar you're not winning anything significant.

[Elj4y]

That's such a dumb argument. They're a good team. What? They're not a contender? It's not like they got blown out 4-0 by Miami last year. What does it take for a team to be good? To get to the finals? I guess there are only two good teams a year then, and only about five in the league. Let's just fold all the teams that don't have Lebron and KD. Failing that, let's fold the entire Eastern conference and move MIA to the West because it's weak anyway (since someone is bound to make that argument)!

Jeez...

[daschysta]

Build what? Mediocrity? When did the Pacers become legit contenders?

who is a legit contender besides Heat in the East then?At least they are in about 1000 better position than Wizards who according to tank-lovers should already be contenting since they landed that 1st pick and got their franchise player.

Yes, just the Heat actually.

So yeah, mediocrity.

Yes, you could be worse and in the lottery but without a real superstar you're not winning anything significant.

Indiana has just as good of a shot at knocking out the Heat almost any team in the West. They certainly are more likely to knock off Miami than OKC, who would get embarrassed just like last time, Indy and Boston played them tougher than the Western Champion last time, and it will happen again if OKC is the rep. Any team with a shot at the conference finals is a contender, and Indiana will probably be favored to make the ECF at the end of the year and match up with Miami. They are 6-1 against Miami/New York/ Chicago, have the 2nd best point differencial in the conference, the #1 defense in the NBA and an offense that is picking up. Plus they are adding Danny Granger to an already very good team. Paul George has been playing like a superstar anyhow, 19.9-8.5-4.5 2 steals with elite defense and over 55% TS over the last 37 is damn near elite, how many guys in the NBA do that?

[durden_tyler]

That's such a dumb argument. They're a good team. What? They're not a contender? It's not like they got blown out 4-0 by Miami last year. What does it take for a team to be good? To get to the finals? I guess there are only two good teams a year then, and only about five in the league. Let's just fold all the teams that don't have Lebron and KD. Failing that, let's fold the entire Eastern conference and move MIA to the West because it's weak anyway (since someone is bound to make that argument)!

Jeez...

Yes something like that. Because come the playoffs you'll need superstars.

Indiana has zero of that.

[daschysta]

That's such a dumb argument. They're a good team. What? They're not a contender? It's not like they got blown out 4-0 by Miami last year. What does it take for a team to be good? To get to the finals? I guess there are only two good teams a year then, and only about five in the league. Let's just fold all the teams that don't have Lebron and KD. Failing that, let's fold the entire Eastern conference and move MIA to the West because it's weak anyway (since someone is bound to make that argument)!

Jeez...

Yes something like that. Because come the playoffs you'll need superstars.

Indiana has zero of that.

5 guys that can go for 15+ any night, 3 guys who can go for 20+ any night, the best rebounding and defense in the NBA is nothing to sneeze at. They have a shot, they aren't favorites, but the whole dur dur dur superstar thing is far too simplistic analysis. George has arguably been playing like a top 10-15 player for well over half of this season anyhow.

Indy is 30-14 since their 4-7 start (winning percentage .688, good for 4th best in the league). They are a team that should be taken seriously.

[TwentyOne920]

Indiana also has the best defense of the league.

The only team that has them figured out is San Antonio, oddly enough.

[CousinOfDeath]

They'll never make it past the 2nd round with that core.

[CodyB_]

They haven't stockpiled sufficient talent to use as trade bait, if they go and trade for a big name, they'll deplete their nucleus to the point of having to start again.

Denver is how you build without tanking.

[StyLeD]

They'll win games because of defense, but they won't beat the Heat without a superstar and George ain't it.

[daschysta]

They haven't stockpiled sufficient talent to use as trade bait, if they go and trade for a big name, they'll deplete their nucleus to the point of having to start again.

Denver is how you build without tanking.

Indy is younger than Denver, and has a better record. The teams are quite comparable, one game this season was lost by 2, and the other on a bs missed call that the NBA admitted they missed the next day that would have put us on the line with less than a second with a chance to take the lead. Denver hasn't been playing all season without a player as good as Danny Granger either. We've been playing all season without the guy who has been our best player for 5 years. Granger makes our offense good, we were a top 10 offensive team last season. Add that to the best defense in the NBA and we're better than Denver is, and younger too.

We did it without having a Carmelo Anthony to dangle as trade bait too.

[JoeSchmo24]

Do you realize the Pacers have not had a single digit draft pick (1-9) since 1989? Thats crazy not even the Spurs have built teams without the benefit of building around a number 1 pick. Also there current roster is from an amazing amount of small schools (Was Larry Legend on to something?)
David West- Xavier
Paul George- Fresno State
Danny Granger- New Mexico State
George HIll- IUPUI
Orlando Johnson-UCSB
Really seems like they have a lot of good personalities on their roster

[JoeSchmo24]

They haven't stockpiled sufficient talent to use as trade bait, if they go and trade for a big name, they'll deplete their nucleus to the point of having to start again.

Denver is how you build without tanking.

Just stop with that Denver comment. You do realize they traded a supposed superstar to get the pieces they have. They didn't build without tanking.

[The MVPlaya]

Is it really a clinic on how to build a team though? Their franchise player isn't a franchise player and they won't be winning any championships with this core.

Only one team wins every year, the Pacers are as strong of contenders as anyone in the East sans Miami.

George also absolutely has franchise player potential. He's been a 20 pt 8.5 rebounds 4.5 assist 2.1 steals per game player since he broke out in December. He's shot over 55% TS during the period too (38 games). He's also one of the top 2 or 3 perimeter defenders in the entire NBA. He's just 22, and absolutely can be a franchise player in his prime. George can be a top 10 player as soon as next season. Indiana probably has a better shot at beating Miami than Oklahoma City does.

I like Paul George's game but he won't even come close to being a top 10 player. All-Star type talent but definitely not "the guy" you can build around and contend for a championship.

[EscapoTHB]

Pacers are a treadmill team. Basically like the Hawks.

...Hooray.

Unless Paul George develops into a top 5 talent. They're not going to be a true contender.

Also hard for me to call what the Pacers have done a clinic--when they've overpaid Danny Granger so much money. If they had that money invested in other spots on the roster like PG they'd be a LOT better.

I mean for what they're paying Granger they could go get Brandon Jennings and be doing pretty well. Also it remains to be seen if Hibbert will live up to that contract he got.

So I think though they've drafted and traded well--their valuation of talent in terms of how much money to pay certain players has proven very wrong--and is what will keep the team from taking the next step.

[daschysta]

Is it really a clinic on how to build a team though? Their franchise player isn't a franchise player and they won't be winning any championships with this core.

Only one team wins every year, the Pacers are as strong of contenders as anyone in the East sans Miami.

George also absolutely has franchise player potential. He's been a 20 pt 8.5 rebounds 4.5 assist 2.1 steals per game player since he broke out in December. He's shot over 55% TS during the period too (38 games). He's also one of the top 2 or 3 perimeter defenders in the entire NBA. He's just 22, and absolutely can be a franchise player in his prime. George can be a top 10 player as soon as next season. Indiana probably has a better shot at beating Miami than Oklahoma City does.

I like Paul George's game but he won't even come close to being a top 10 player. All-Star type talent but definitely not "the guy" you can build around and contend for a championship.

The potential is certainly there, he's only 22. Had he been doing what he's done for 3/4 of the season all season long you could argue that he's already top 15. 19.9- 8.5 - 4.5 2 steals 55+TS% are pretty elite numbers for a swingman. Plus he's putting it up for the 2nd best team in the conference, he leads the NBA in Defensive win shares and should be all defensive 1st team. Why in the world can't he be a top 10 player? You would have a hard time naming 15 players right now who have been better since December. His numbers would put him as the best rebounding swing in the game, top 5 in assists among forwards, only behind Harden, James, Durant, Wade and Anthony iirc for scoring among 2's and 3's ,and arguably the best wing defender int he NBA. Why can't he be a top 10- 15 player? He already puts up about 18-8-4 despite his horrible start, it isn't really a stretch to say he can score 22-23 ppg 7.5-8.5 rpg 4-5 apg in his prime. That would certainly be a top 10 player when you account for the fact that there are two sides of a basketball court. He's already a legit all-star guy at 22, what can't he do on the court that would preclude him from making the next step? He has been creating his own shot with ease, he's a great playmaker for others for a small forward, defends with the best of them, has a money 3 point shot, is super athletic and an elite rebounder. He does everything.

Pacers are a treadmill team. Basically like the Hawks.

...Hooray.

Unless Paul George develops into a top 5 talent. They're not going to be a true contender.

Also hard for me to call what the Pacers have done a clinic--when they've overpaid Danny Granger so much money. If they had that money invested in other spots on the roster like PG they'd be a LOT better.

I mean for what they're paying Granger they could go get Brandon Jennings and be doing pretty well. Also it remains to be seen if Hibbert will live up to that contract he got.

So I think though they've drafted and traded well--their valuation of talent in terms of how much money to pay certain players has proven very wrong--and is what will keep the team from taking the next step.

Granger got a contract starting at about 12 million coming off a 26-5-3 on 58% TS season, how in the world is that overpaid? He's making 14 million the last year of his contract, he's been a 20+ ppg scorer for the majority of it, and our first option and still plays solid D. How is that overpaid in a league where Gay, Iggy etc... got the deals they got?

[EscapoTHB]

Denver is how you build without tanking.

This. Though the money they gave Gallo was probablly really dumb. And Igdoula isn't a max player either. So even they don't have the best discipline.

For me, I only want my max contract money going to legit superstars. Otherwise what's the point? You need value for money -- otherwise you'll just be on the treadmill.