The Pacers Core (a clinic in how to build without tanking)

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Re: The Pacers Core (a clinic in how to build without tankin 

Post#121 » by xxSnEaKyPxx » Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:37 pm

TheKiteDesigner wrote:Indiana
Home 23-5
Road 11-16
3pts or less 3-7
vs teams over .500 11-13

Not rain on your parade, but I've been saying it over and over. Indiana is a bad road team and they feast on teams under .500. The playoffs are a whole different ball game. They're not ready to take the next step yet.

We aren't a great road team, but we've been getting better. We are an elite home team though, and we could have home court advantage all the way to the ECF.

Record vs .500 teams is worrisome, but honestly, the way Paul George has stepped up lately, I'm really not worried about it. You also have to take in consideration that this has been without our top scorer for the better part of a decade now. He is coming back tonight.

Hibbert
West
Granger
George
Hill

That team has size and not a single weakness defensively. We are essentially adding a 15ppg scorer(thats downplaying it) for free to a team thats already the 2nd seed in the conference. By doing that, we are also improving out bench by adding Stephenson to it. We are only getting better, not worse.
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Re: The Pacers Core (a clinic in how to build without tankin 

Post#122 » by xxSnEaKyPxx » Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:40 pm

Trader_Joe wrote:Question though to Indy fans...what is up with the terrible attendance? You guys are a basketball state with a good team.

I do not live in Indiana to tell you, nor do I have any connection to Indiana outside of being a Pacers fan. It seems as if people in Indiana are not actually NBA fans, just college fans. Which in that case, they can't claim to be the greatest basketball state because NC trumps them. Though they probably care more about HS basketball than any state I suppose.

I don't know, overall it pisses me off. I wish I could go to Pacer games.
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Re: The Pacers Core (a clinic in how to build without tankin 

Post#123 » by TheKiteDesigner » Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:41 pm

Trader_Joe wrote:
TheKiteDesigner wrote:Indiana
Home 23-5
Road 11-16
3pts or less 3-7
vs teams over .500 11-13

Not rain on your parade, but I've been saying it over and over. Indiana is a bad road team and they feast on teams under .500. The playoffs are a whole different ball game. They're not ready to take the next step yet.

They played well in the playoffs last season and look to have home court this year so I would not worried about their road record.


Question though to Indy fans...what is up with the terrible attendance? You guys are a basketball state with a good team.


Played well yet lost to a Boshless Heat. Like I said, they are not ready to take the next step.
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Re: The Pacers Core (a clinic in how to build without tankin 

Post#124 » by xxSnEaKyPxx » Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:47 pm

TheKiteDesigner wrote:Played well yet lost to a Boshless Heat. Like I said, they are not ready to take the next step.

Good thing the Pacers are the EXACT same team as last year.

C'mon man. Paul George was a 5th option then, he is an All-Star now who has constantly outplayed his competition.

David West was recovering from an ACL injury and wasn't half the player he is now.

Lance Stephenson wasn't a tenth of the player he is now.

Also, a HUGE reason why we lost to Miami was because of our bench. Look at the +/- scores from that series. Our starters played great. However, when Hibbert came out of the game, our defense sucked because Amundson couldn't defend anyone. This year we have Mahinmi who has been unbelievable for us.

We've also gone the entire season without Danny Granger, who comes back tonight.

To say we haven't changed from last season is completely silly. We are not the same team at all.


Note: Obviously I recognize Miami remains the favorite by far, but comparing this Pacers team to last years is just ignorance.
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Re: The Pacers Core (a clinic in how to build without tankin 

Post#125 » by COY0607 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:51 pm

orangeparka wrote:Dayum... Kawhi/George woulda been epic.


that leonard trade was not at all bad for the pacers, but man if they had kept the pick and taken Leonard then could have traded granger of a PG and would have been a real threat to upset the heat... george+leonard with hibbert backing them up is as difficult as it could get for lebron/wade
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Re: The Pacers Core (a clinic in how to build without tankin 

Post#126 » by lakersin4 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:54 pm

Yeah.. The Pacers did a great job building with limited resources.. My favorite team in the east by far. They have the best shot in the east of beating Miami 2 years in a row.
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Re: The Pacers Core (a clinic in how to build without tankin 

Post#127 » by peja_the_legend » Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:57 pm

ComboGuardCity wrote:I think people are losing sight of the face that the game actually has to be played. These aren't simulations. The Pacers are absolutely a contender because they match up well with every team in the league. Some of you guys should just stop watching basketball since the winners are already so clear cut :roll:


Oklahomas success has driven fans around the NBA crazy.Teams without s superstar should just tank and pray for God to land them one(there are a whooping 2 of them in the league right now).That's the new trend.Forget about building decent teams,if you dont have Lebron or Durant in your roster just tank.
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Re: The Pacers Core (a clinic in how to build without tankin 

Post#128 » by KL78192020 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:58 pm

Its a shame they have the worst fans. They have a winning team, and still can't attract ****.

http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance
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Re: The Pacers Core (a clinic in how to build without tankin 

Post#129 » by Rock Johnson » Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:15 pm

Miami's the only team in the East with a winning record against non-losing teams. The Knicks (.456), Bulls (.407), and Nets (.393) are all inferior to Indiana (.458) in that regard. The washed-up Celtics are actually second in the Conference with a .462 winning percentage.
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Re: The Pacers Core (a clinic in how to build without tankin 

Post#130 » by TheKiteDesigner » Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:23 pm

DGrangeRx33 wrote:
TheKiteDesigner wrote:Played well yet lost to a Boshless Heat. Like I said, they are not ready to take the next step.

Good thing the Pacers are the EXACT same team as last year.

C'mon man. Paul George was a 5th option then, he is an All-Star now who has constantly outplayed his competition.

David West was recovering from an ACL injury and wasn't half the player he is now.

Lance Stephenson wasn't a tenth of the player he is now.

Also, a HUGE reason why we lost to Miami was because of our bench. Look at the +/- scores from that series. Our starters played great. However, when Hibbert came out of the game, our defense sucked because Amundson couldn't defend anyone. This year we have Mahinmi who has been unbelievable for us.

We've also gone the entire season without Danny Granger, who comes back tonight.

To say we haven't changed from last season is completely silly. We are not the same team at all.


Note: Obviously I recognize Miami remains the favorite by far, but comparing this Pacers team to last years is just ignorance.


I like how in another thread you are calling out someone for reading comprehension yet in this thread you fail to comprehend my point.
The only reason I mentioned Indy losing to the Boshless Heat was that someone else said they played well last season in the playoffs, which I agreed to.
My main point in this thread as i made before is, they are not elite on the road, not elite in close games and not elite vs teams over .500. They might not be the same team but they still have those glaring issues.
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Re: The Pacers Core (a clinic in how to build without tankin 

Post#131 » by xxSnEaKyPxx » Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:24 pm

Rock Johnson wrote:Miami's the only team in the East with a winning record against non-losing teams. The Knicks (.456), Bulls (.407), and Nets (.393) are all inferior to Indiana (.458) in that regard. The washed-up Celtics are actually second in the Conference with a .462 winning percentage.

Since Paul George has broken out(last 37 or so games), the Pacers are 11-7 against .500+ teams.
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Re: The Pacers Core (a clinic in how to build without tankin 

Post#132 » by xxSnEaKyPxx » Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:28 pm

TheKiteDesigner wrote:I like how in another thread you are calling out someone for reading comprehension yet in this thread you fail to comprehend my point.
The only reason I mentioned Indy losing to the Boshless Heat was that someone else said they played well last season in the playoffs, which I agreed to.
My main point in this thread as i made before is, they are not elite on the road, not elite in close games and not elite vs teams over .500. They might not be the same team but they still have those glaring issues.

You didn't make that point in the post I quoted. If you made it in a previous one, thats fine. I apologize, I don't really pay attention to names on every post.

As for your previous points, I believe I responded to them.
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Re: The Pacers Core (a clinic in how to build without tankin 

Post#133 » by TheKiteDesigner » Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:38 pm

DGrangeRx33 wrote:
TheKiteDesigner wrote:I like how in another thread you are calling out someone for reading comprehension yet in this thread you fail to comprehend my point.
The only reason I mentioned Indy losing to the Boshless Heat was that someone else said they played well last season in the playoffs, which I agreed to.
My main point in this thread as i made before is, they are not elite on the road, not elite in close games and not elite vs teams over .500. They might not be the same team but they still have those glaring issues.

You didn't make that point in the post I quoted. If you made it in a previous one, thats fine. I apologize, I don't really pay attention to names on every post.

As for your previous points, I believe I responded to them.


Don't get me wrong, Indiana has improved. I just think they are not ready to take the next step but with Granger coming back that can possibly change my mind if they improve in those areas. One thing I like about Indy is the hard nose, grind out style they play. I enjoy that brand of basketball.
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Re: The Pacers Core (a clinic in how to build without tankin 

Post#134 » by Ayt » Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:46 pm

PetroNet wrote:
dabestmane wrote:
PetroNet wrote:we had tyshon taylor and reggie evans starting! dwill was out and we were on a back to back as well and we play ZERO defense and you still lose and didnt break 80 points... and even if you want to make excuses for that game we beat you by 15-20 the previous meeting.

2nd in the east is a joke, the conference is terrible and there are what like 4 teams within a game or two of the pacers?

fraud team.


Which was on a back to back game... The Pacer's 3rd game in 4 nights.....again without their leading scorer from last year.


so basically, the pacers are the only team who plays on back to back nights and its unheard ofr for a team to win on a back to back?

got it thanks. nets dont play defense, only beat horrible sub .500 teams, we didint have OUR leading scorer from last year(dwill) and still won. that should tell you all you need to know about your fraud fugazy team.


They are also 2-0 against the Heat this year. They are 2-0 against the Bulls. They are 2-1 against the Knicks.

This type of analysis is about as stupid as it gets.
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Re: The Pacers Core (a clinic in how to build without tankin 

Post#135 » by xxSnEaKyPxx » Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:48 pm

TheKiteDesigner wrote:Don't get me wrong, Indiana has improved. I just think they are not ready to take the next step but with Granger coming back that can possibly change my mind if they improve in those areas. One thing I like about Indy is the hard nose, grind out style they play. I enjoy that brand of basketball.

I hear ya.

Obviously the Heat are by far the favorites and will be a miracle if anyone does beat them - I just dislike the "Well in last years playoffs..." argument.
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Re: The Pacers Core (a clinic in how to build without tankin 

Post#136 » by frizzledizzle » Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:55 pm

People keep saying you need a superstar to win a championship. Who the heck did the Pistons have?

Billups
Rip
Prince
Sheed
Ben

So which one of those would you consider a superstar? You could argue the Pacers are an identical but better version of them. If I had to compare the players, I'll even do worst case scenario of comparing them.

Billups > Hill
Rip = Granger
Prince < PG
Sheed = West
Ben = Hibbert

That's being generous in my opinion. Granger has been the go to guy and team leader for years, he's still only 29 and I think that makes him a better player than RIP. And Hibbert is better than Ben, he at least has some semblance of an offensive game.

To break it down...

6'3 Billups vs. 6'2 Hill
Billups was better than Hill but Hill isn't far behind. Billups put up insane numbers in his prime and his career average has been lowered in recent years as he's gotten older. You could make the same argument for Hill though. Until the end of last season, he was a bench player which lowered his numbers and he's still only 26 years old. He has room to improve and his career averages should all continue to increase as long as he's starting.

6'7 Hamilton vs. 6'8 Granger
Hamilton is a slightly better shooter but Granger is a good shooter too and a better all around player. Granger had the burden in recent years of being the best player on the team with defenses focusing more on him than everyone else. Rip on the other hand played had Billups and Sheed who were excellent scores and Prince who was solid enough. This season is going to be the first time Granger won't have to carry the load and do it all.

6'9 Prince vs. 6'9 George
PG is better than Prince in every facet of the game. The only way Prince comes near PG was his defense. Other than that, PG is a better scorer, better ball handler and better rebounder all while maintaining elite defense.

6'11 Rasheed vs. 6'9 West
Similar players but West is better on the Pacers than Wallace was on the Pistons. Both are big men that could hit mid-range jump shots. In fact, West leads the entire league in mid-range shooting percentage with over 300 attempts. So any shooting guard or small forward out there with over 300 attempts, West shoots a higher percentage from mid range... the guy knocks em down all day if you give him a foot.

6'9 Ben vs. 7'2 Hibbert
Ben was the better rebounder but Hibbert is better in every other area. Plus, he's a lot bigger. He's an elite defender that can create his own shot if need be. He used to have a really good hookshot but he doesn't do as much shooting as he has in the past. But if you put the ball in his hands, he's capable of backing defenders down and shooting a hook shot over them



A lot of people won't want to admit it but they are very similar teams and if the Pistons can win a championship, whose to say the Pacers can't? They're sitting in 2nd place without a player most would have considered their best player up until this season. And the Pacers bench is without a doubt better than Pistons bench was.

People keep saying the Pacers aren't good enough but who says? Last season the Pacers had a 1st year head coach and it was George Hill/David West's first season with the team. You have to remember it was a shortened offseason to prepare and install Vogel's system. Not only that but George Hill didn't take over as starter until the end of the season and David West was still struggling to get back into form coming off his ACL tear. This season has allowed George Hill to build more chemistry with starters and David West has recovered and is looking like the David West of the past. It has also allowed Paul George to grow into an all-star and given Lance Stephenson playing time. They've also added Mahinimi and with Stephenson's growth, those two will be better than anyone the Pacers had coming off their bench last season.

I don't think people know this but the Pacers starting unit was statistically the best starting unit in the NBA last season as far as winning is concerned. It was the terrible bench that cost them. Both the starters and bench have improved this season. That's not unexpected either seeing as last season, Paul George was 21, George Hill was 25 and Roy Hibbert was 25 as well. Obviously most players don't peak at those ages and have room for improvement. Despite being that young, the Pacers still had the 5th best record in the NBA. Now with them being 22, 26 and 26, they're still sitting 2nd place in the east. That's even with Granger who was 28 last season being out and being replaced by 22 year old Lance Stephenson. Think about how young the Pacers starting line up is... 22, 22, 26, 26 and 32. With a bench that's 23(Johnson), 25(Augustin), 25(Pendergraph), 26(Mahinimi) and 27(Hansbrough). Why does nobody think they can improve?

They're young, good and they're going to improve. They get to add a 20-5-3 guy tonight without trading anyone on the team to get him. That's just going to make the team better and deeper. People who don't pay attention to the Pacers just don't get it. They have a 22 year old that's virtually average 18pts, 8rebs, 4asts and 2stls on the season while shooting 40% from downtown. Some people don't think he can be a superstar and yet he's really close being that he's already an all-star. The Pacers absolutely can pull off of Pistons-type championship. You don't think the Pacers can't do it without a superstar and yet Paul George and Danny Granger are both probably better than anyone on that Pistons team. And it looks as though they may have one advantage they didn't have last year come playoff time. All of those ticky tack fouls the refs were calling in favor Lebron and Wade because they're superstars, refs haven't been calling it on the Pacers. Refs have been letting them play physical and if the refs let the Pacers play Miami physical, there's more than a punchers chance that Miami goes down.
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Re: The Pacers Core (a clinic in how to build without tankin 

Post#137 » by Jajwanda » Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:05 pm

Having a guy like Granger off the bench is like adding a sixth man of the year. They're playing lights out basketball, adding Granger is another big step in a potential upset of Miami. If you really think about it:

- With Ginobli declining
- Harden in Houston

Indiana will have one of the best sixth men in the league.
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Re: The Pacers Core (a clinic in how to build without tankin 

Post#138 » by Green Backpack » Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:09 pm

frizzledizzle wrote:6'9 Ben vs. 7'2 Hibbert
Ben was the better rebounder but Hibbert is better in every other area. Plus, he's a lot bigger. He's an elite defender that can create his own shot if need be. He used to have a really good hookshot but he doesn't do as much shooting as he has in the past. But if you put the ball in his hands, he's capable of backing defenders down and shooting a hook shot over them


:o
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Re: The Pacers Core (a clinic in how to build without tankin 

Post#139 » by Keshavarzi » Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:16 pm

A clinic on how to never be good enough to win a title
The over-moderating of this site has gotten ridiculous, if you agree, take your talents to www.reddit.com/r/nba
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Re: The Pacers Core (a clinic in how to build without tankin 

Post#140 » by xxSnEaKyPxx » Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:17 pm

frizzledizzle wrote:Billups > Hill
Rip = Granger
Prince < PG
Sheed = West
Ben = Hibbert

This is way off to me man and I'm a Pacers fan.

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