Rubio is an elite defender

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Re: Rubio is an elite defender 

Post#16 » by rottenzombie » Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:50 am

JF5 wrote:
spearsy23 wrote:Odd game to make a thread after, but yeah he's generally great. Tonight he had a ton of steals but Russ was god mode so not much he could do overall.


Russ is hard to stop when he has his shot going. Even then you can't stop his driving ability....

Rubio still a good defender


Not just talking about Westbrook. Obviously it is tough to stop Westbrook, who is one of the top athletes in the league.

I remember guys like Jennings and Teague were giving Rubio fits. These super fast guards could often get past him without too much trouble. Rubio could still poke the ball from behind from time to time, though.
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Re: Rubio is an elite defender 

Post#17 » by Colbinii » Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:55 am

Do elite defensive PG lead the league in steals?
I think they do.
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Re: Rubio is an elite defender 

Post#18 » by carayip » Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:55 am

Colbinii wrote:Imagine how good he would be with a player like Durant. Everyone would be saying he is a top 5 PG in the league.


Not really. Durant really doesn't need anyone to create shots for him. Rubio would be terrible as a spot up shooter when Durant has the ball creating. If Rubio's OKC PG, OKC's starting lineup would only has 1 legit scoring option and it would be horrible and put too much pressure for Durant to score.
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Re: Rubio is an elite defender 

Post#19 » by SportsGuy8 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:56 am

I watched around 75% of the game (multi-tasking), but from what I remember, Westbrook didn't really score that much vs. Rubio, because Adelman keeps playing small-ball with 2, sometimes even 3 PGs, so Rubio is often put on SGs or SFs (as his size is much bigger compared to Barea or Ridnour).

But anyways, Rottenzombie's assessment is pretty much spot on. He's a good 1on1 defender who has problems vs. either very fast or very strong PGs, but a SUPERB team defender, pretty much being an annoying pain in the butt to every team with his annoying hands and also very smart positioning. :)
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Re: Rubio is an elite defender 

Post#20 » by Colbinii » Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:57 am

carayip wrote:
Colbinii wrote:Imagine how good he would be with a player like Durant. Everyone would be saying he is a top 5 PG in the league.


Not really. Durant really doesn't need anyone to create shots for him. Rubio would be terrible as a spot up shooter when Durant has the ball creating. If Rubio's OKC PG, OKC's starting lineup would only has 1 legit scoring option and it would be horrible and put too much pressure for Durant to score.


You wouldn't build a team with just 1 shot maker. I said imagine if he had Durant, not the OKC team.
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Re: Rubio is an elite defender 

Post#21 » by JustAwesome » Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:29 am

While Durant would be the only great scoring threat in that lineup, Rubio can also make the other players a little more effective on offense.
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Re: Rubio is an elite defender 

Post#22 » by spearsy23 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:10 pm

JustAwesome wrote:While Durant would be the only great scoring threat in that lineup, Rubio can also make the other players a little more effective on offense.

He's averaging right around the same number of assists as Westbrook. I love Rubio but he's still young, he overpasses at times (last night he had 3 lay ups he could've made but threw bad lobs instead) and isn't a Steve Nash type passer yet.
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Re: Rubio is an elite defender 

Post#23 » by Johnlac1 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:27 pm

spearsy23 wrote:
JustAwesome wrote:While Durant would be the only great scoring threat in that lineup, Rubio can also make the other players a little more effective on offense.

He's averaging right around the same number of assists as Westbrook. I love Rubio but he's still young, he overpasses at times (last night he had 3 lay ups he could've made but threw bad lobs instead) and isn't a Steve Nash type passer yet.

Rubio is a better passer than Nash. But Nash is an excellent passer and obviously a much better shooter than Rubio.
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Re: Rubio is an elite defender 

Post#24 » by spearsy23 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:32 pm

Johnlac1 wrote:
spearsy23 wrote:
JustAwesome wrote:While Durant would be the only great scoring threat in that lineup, Rubio can also make the other players a little more effective on offense.

He's averaging right around the same number of assists as Westbrook. I love Rubio but he's still young, he overpasses at times (last night he had 3 lay ups he could've made but threw bad lobs instead) and isn't a Steve Nash type passer yet.

Rubio is a better passer than Nash. But Nash is an excellent passer and obviously a much better shooter than Rubio.

Rubio is not a better passer than Nash, he's not even close to Nash's level yet. Nash was a 12 assists per 36 guy with an ast% over 50. Nash is still in the league, how the hell could he have already been forgotten?
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Re: Rubio is an elite defender 

Post#25 » by Wizenheimer » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:47 pm

statistically, he's not anything close to an elite defender this season, but he is coming back from a major injury, and it's something of a limited sample size

this season, Minnesota's defense is 2.9 points worse when Rubio is on the floor. Last season though, it was 7.3 points better. That's such a glaring discrepancy, you have to question the numbers

this season, Synergy stats rate Rubio as one of the poorer defenders in the league. Overall, he's allowing 0.96 points/possession which ranks 344th in the league. 14.6% of the time he has defended isolation and has allowed 0.75 points/possession which ranks 100th. 38.5% of the time he has defended P&R ball-handlers and has allowed 0.8 points/possession which ranks 116th. 24% of the time he has defended the spot-up and allowed 1.36 points/possession which ranks 342nd.

Minnesota ranks 13th in the NBA in defensive rating so Rubio is not working with the disadvantage of being on a bad defensive team.

Since I don't have access to Synergy numbers from last season, I can't tell how he ranked. But I'd imagine he showed a lot better last year since his defensive numbers from other sources for last season look much better then this. Still it's way too much of a stretch at this point to call him elite defensively
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Re: Rubio is an elite defender 

Post#26 » by OKCThunderUp35 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:50 pm

Colbinii wrote:Do elite defensive PG lead the league in steals?
I think they do.

Do elite defensive big men lead the league in blocks?
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Re: Rubio is an elite defender 

Post#27 » by comingbacktousa » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:55 pm

spearsy23 wrote:
JustAwesome wrote:While Durant would be the only great scoring threat in that lineup, Rubio can also make the other players a little more effective on offense.

He's averaging right around the same number of assists as Westbrook. I love Rubio but he's still young, he overpasses at times (last night he had 3 lay ups he could've made but threw bad lobs instead) and isn't a Steve Nash type passer yet.


Consider the shooters Westbrook plays with and who Rubio plays with. Durant,Martin,Ibaka, even Thabo are much better shooters/finishers than anyone on the Min team besides Pek. Pek has also been out for a good number of the games Rubio has been back. The ball has to go in for it to be an assist. Regardless per 36 he still averages more assist a game than Westbrook on 19% usage compared to 32%. Rubio is definitely the better passer.

He is a equal to or better passer than Nash, as far as seeing the court and getting the ball there hes just as good. His decision making isn't as good as you pointed out with the over passing. Its good in a way because he wants to get his teammates involved but at the same time he should just finish those. Hes still very young so I think over time he will. At 22 he still has plenty of time to do so.
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Re: Rubio is an elite defender 

Post#28 » by comingbacktousa » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:58 pm

OKCThunderUp35 wrote:
Colbinii wrote:Do elite defensive PG lead the league in steals?
I think they do.

Do elite defensive big men lead the league in blocks?

Most of the elite defensive bigs are up there so yea.
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Re: Rubio is an elite defender 

Post#29 » by spearsy23 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:58 pm

comingbacktousa wrote:
Consider the shooters Westbrook plays with and who Rubio plays with. Durant,Martin,Ibaka, even Thabo are much better shooters/finishers than anyone on the Min team besides Pek. Pek has also been out for a good number of the games Rubio has been back. The ball has to go in for it to be an assist. Regardless per 36 he still averages more assist a game than Westbrook on 19% usage compared to 32%. Rubio is definitely the better passer.

It's not like the twolves are the bobcats, his numbers last year were right in the same place and he had klove. Besides the argument isn't that Westbrook is a better passer, just that he's producing the same number of assists and a lot more points so swapping the two doesnt help any.

He is a equal to or better passer than Nash, as far as seeing the court and getting the ball there hes just as good. His decision making isn't as good as you pointed out with the over passing.

No, he's not even close. Making spectacular passes doesn't make you a great passer. He IS a great passer but Nash is on another level. Meaning prime Nash, not today Nash, even though today Nash is just as good as Rubio passing.

Its good in a way because he wants to get his teammates involved but at the same time he should just finish those. Hes still very young so I think over time he will. At 22 he still has plenty of time to do so.

I agree, he's not there yet though.
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Re: Rubio is an elite defender 

Post#30 » by Klomp » Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:13 am

spearsy23 wrote:
comingbacktousa wrote:Consider the shooters Westbrook plays with and who Rubio plays with. Durant,Martin,Ibaka, even Thabo are much better shooters/finishers than anyone on the Min team besides Pek. Pek has also been out for a good number of the games Rubio has been back. The ball has to go in for it to be an assist. Regardless per 36 he still averages more assist a game than Westbrook on 19% usage compared to 32%. Rubio is definitely the better passer.

It's not like the twolves are the bobcats, his numbers last year were right in the same place and he had klove. Besides the argument isn't that Westbrook is a better passer, just that he's producing the same number of assists and a lot more points so swapping the two doesnt help any.


You're right, the Wolves aren't the Bobcats, but they aren't the Thunder either...

Field Goal Percentage
3. Thunder - 48.3%
25. Timberwolves - 43.7%
30. Bobcats - 42.0%

Three-Point Percentage
1. Thunder - 39.2%
22. Bobcats - 34.7%
30. Timberwolves - 30.3%

The Timberwolves are HISTORICALLY bad from long range.

Only four teams in NBA history have taken more than 12 attempts per game and made fewer than 30.3% of those 3-pointers. The Wolves have by far the best winning percentage of those four teams and have separated themselves away from that historical futility for now. But that’s with a hot four games in February helping them boost the numbers a bit. Through January 31st, the Wolves were shooting 29.5% from 3-point range, which would have them tied with the Charlotte Bobcats from last season. Remember, that was a team that set the record for worst winning percentage in NBA history.


http://www.awolfamongwolves.com/2013/02 ... ary-audit/
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Re: Rubio is an elite defender 

Post#31 » by TheChosen618 » Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:19 am

EzeDoesIt wrote:
rottenzombie wrote:Oddly I feel Rubio is a better team defender than an individual defender, which really is rare for a PG.


I feel like J. Lin is kind of that way, too.

Chris Paul, Jeremy Lin, and Ricky Rubio are all great help defenders. I think help defense is the most impactful type of defense, more impactful than man to man, so I think one could argue that these are 3 are all top tier defensive PGs.

I remember Rubio last season during the Linsanity stretch guarded Lin really well with full-court pressure.
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Re: Rubio is an elite defender 

Post#32 » by allweneedisLOVE » Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:43 am

Colbinii wrote:Do elite defensive PG lead the league in steals?
I think they do.


he was leading the league in steals last year before his injury, and now this year he's 3rd in the league in only 26 minutes a game
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Re: Rubio is an elite defender 

Post#33 » by kasino » Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:51 am

Yea I do agree, as for if he was on OKC Durant would benefit since his off ball play is elite but more importantly the rest of the team would improve
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Re: Rubio is an elite defender 

Post#34 » by Colbinii » Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:02 am

allweneedisLOVE wrote:
Colbinii wrote:Do elite defensive PG lead the league in steals?
I think they do.


he was leading the league in steals last year before his injury, and now this year he's 3rd in the league in only 26 minutes a game

That is my point :D
Sorry if it implied otherwise.
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Re: Rubio is an elite defender 

Post#35 » by Klomp » Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:10 pm

1st quarter vs Warriors: 4 steals (Curry: 0-2)
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