Did OKC make the right decision with Harden?
Moderators: Domejandro, infinite11285, Harry Garris, ken6199, Dirk, bisme37, KingDavid, bwgood77, zimpy27, cupcakesnake
Re: Did OKC make the right decision with Harden?
- bondom34
- Retired Mod
- Posts: 66,580
- And1: 50,199
- Joined: Mar 01, 2013
Re: Did OKC make the right decision with Harden?
As a Thunder fan who's followed Harden a bit since he left as well, and having watched pretty much all of OKC's games so far, I can say a few things with a lot of confidence:
1. To start Westbrook is in no way far inferior to Harden, and inferior period is debatable.
2. I'm really really really really really tired of this conversation. I think this is the third time we've done it 15 games into the season, and the thread start depends on if OKC just won or lost.
3. As for the actual question, its the answer I'm most confident in, and that is I don't know.
1. To start Westbrook is in no way far inferior to Harden, and inferior period is debatable.
2. I'm really really really really really tired of this conversation. I think this is the third time we've done it 15 games into the season, and the thread start depends on if OKC just won or lost.
3. As for the actual question, its the answer I'm most confident in, and that is I don't know.
MyUniBroDavis wrote: he was like YALL PEOPLE WHO DOUBT ME WILL SEE YALLS STATS ARE WRONG I HAVE THE BIG BRAIN PLAYS MUCHO NASTY BIG BRAIN BIG CHUNGUS BRAIN YOU BOYS ON UR BBALL REFERENCE NO UNDERSTANDO
Re: Did OKC make the right decision with Harden?
-
- Assistant Coach
- Posts: 3,966
- And1: 758
- Joined: Mar 13, 2002
- Location: Miami
Re: Did OKC make the right decision with Harden?
sp6r=underrated wrote::rofl: at people who object to this thread but like random 32/10/12 threads. This is the worse management decision in recent NBA history. In this millennium, only Darko over Wade rivals it for craptitude.
In 2012, Harden was already far superior to Westbrook but OKC management refused to consider dealing Westbrook. Westbrook who was overvalued on the market would have netted a better package than Harden. If you chucked in Ibaka with Westbrook you could have gotten basically anything you wanted and dumped Perkins.
Instead OKC sells Harden for 50 cents and lets the one decent piece they got walk.
at anyone who think OKC played the 2012 offseason right.
I dont get the Darko over Wade comparison. No GM was taking Wade at 2 or 3. Even if the Pistons passed on Darko, they would have taken Melo.
Re: Did OKC make the right decision with Harden?
- jayjaypimpson
- Pro Prospect
- Posts: 857
- And1: 955
- Joined: Mar 14, 2012
- Location: Cleveland, OH
Re: Did OKC make the right decision with Harden?
Harden doesn't play defense and it's not like OKC misses his scoring so... yeah, I think the Thunder probably made the right move
Re: Did OKC make the right decision with Harden?
-
- Head Coach
- Posts: 7,122
- And1: 3,743
- Joined: Jun 24, 2013
Re: Did OKC make the right decision with Harden?
No, because they could have obviously gotten much higher value for him, looking back.
But, people overreact to this. Harden was a bench scorer, but little else for OKC. He presented a lot of problems on defense, and even offense when all three were on the floor together.
In short, it was the right decision to trade him for both the team and the franchise ($), but the return could have been much higher.
But, people overreact to this. Harden was a bench scorer, but little else for OKC. He presented a lot of problems on defense, and even offense when all three were on the floor together.
In short, it was the right decision to trade him for both the team and the franchise ($), but the return could have been much higher.
Re: Did OKC make the right decision with Harden?
-
- Sixth Man
- Posts: 1,517
- And1: 1,274
- Joined: Aug 08, 2013
Re: Did OKC make the right decision with Harden?
Boarder Patrol wrote:No, because they could have obviously gotten much higher value for him, looking back.
But, people overreact to this. Harden was a bench scorer, but little else for OKC. He presented a lot of problems on defense, and even offense when all three were on the floor together.
In short, it was the right decision to trade him for both the team and the franchise ($), but the return could have been much higher.
Supposedly Presti asked Washington for Beal and stuff Then he asked GS for Thompson and some stuff. Both teams said no. Presti also dangled Harden during the draft for a high pick and got no takers. Harden's value around the league at the time of the trade was very low. Thinking about it, you wonder if Ibaka at the time would get better offers. He was leading the league in blocks already by then, right?
In retrospect, I put Harden and Westbrook on the same tier. You can argue for either player being better, and I would not object. But one thing that we can all agree on is this. If the Thunder had put Westbrook on the trade market in the summer of 2012, they would've gotten the biggest haul of prospects and picks imaginable. While Harden got Kevin Martin and 3 picks outside the top 10.
Re: Did OKC make the right decision with Harden?
- NO-KG-AI
- Retired Mod
- Posts: 42,924
- And1: 17,877
- Joined: Jul 19, 2005
- Location: The city of witch doctors, and good ol' pickpockets
Re: Did OKC make the right decision with Harden?
I am also on the train of thought that thinks Westbrook's value was so much higher at the time, that trading him was the way to go, and that Harden is a better player. I think you'd have better surrounding parts for Durant/Harden by a fair margin, even if you think Westbrook is better.(I don't)
Doctor MJ wrote:I don't understand why people jump in a thread and say basically, "This thing you're all talking about. I'm too ignorant to know anything about it. Lollerskates!"
Re: Did OKC make the right decision with Harden?
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 22,210
- And1: 7,704
- Joined: Dec 10, 2005
Re: Did OKC make the right decision with Harden?
Rhinou wrote:To call call Westbrook FAR INFERIOR to Harden is so silly and pretty much discredits anything else you have to say.
Exactly. I would rather have Westbrook in the playoff's....
I'm so tired of the typical......
Re: Did OKC make the right decision with Harden?
- Rhinou
- Junior
- Posts: 305
- And1: 294
- Joined: Sep 12, 2009
- Location: Tulsa, OK
Re: Did OKC make the right decision with Harden?
NO-KG-AI wrote:I am also on the train of thought that thinks Westbrook's value was so much higher at the time, that trading him was the way to go, and that Harden is a better player. I think you'd have better surrounding parts for Durant/Harden by a fair margin, even if you think Westbrook is better.(I don't)
How on the world does anybody still think Harden is a better player than Westbrook? The Thunder set a franchise record with 60 wins in the regular season without Harden. And we all know what happened to the Thunder lost Westbrook in playoffs. Westbrook is just as important to the Thunder as Durant is.
MalonesElbows wrote:No team giving Enes Kanter significant minutes will make it out of the second round, can take that to the bank.
Re: Did OKC make the right decision with Harden?
-
- General Manager
- Posts: 7,889
- And1: 2,922
- Joined: Jul 11, 2009
- Location: Club Space
Re: Did OKC make the right decision with Harden?
Harden choked in the finals too
Re: Did OKC make the right decision with Harden?
- Rhinou
- Junior
- Posts: 305
- And1: 294
- Joined: Sep 12, 2009
- Location: Tulsa, OK
Re: Did OKC make the right decision with Harden?
I mean Harden got locked down by Derek Fisher during the playoffs last year for Christ's sake.
MalonesElbows wrote:No team giving Enes Kanter significant minutes will make it out of the second round, can take that to the bank.
Re: Did OKC make the right decision with Harden?
-
- Pro Prospect
- Posts: 775
- And1: 429
- Joined: Mar 06, 2012
- Location: Quahog, R.I
Re: Did OKC make the right decision with Harden?
I don't know the answer for OKC. Because they made it to the Finals with Harden and may never get back. Who Knows.
As for James Harden financially wise and for his own personal fame, He Did the right thing multiplied times 1000.
But as for winning a championship it's never going to happen unless they get Kevin Durant in 2 years. Even then who knows who Lebron will be teamed up with and a old Dwight Howard is gonna be the achilles heal of them not achieving a title imo.
As for James Harden financially wise and for his own personal fame, He Did the right thing multiplied times 1000.
But as for winning a championship it's never going to happen unless they get Kevin Durant in 2 years. Even then who knows who Lebron will be teamed up with and a old Dwight Howard is gonna be the achilles heal of them not achieving a title imo.
Re: Did OKC make the right decision with Harden?
- RoyceDa59
- RealGM
- Posts: 23,881
- And1: 8,731
- Joined: Aug 25, 2002
Re: Did OKC make the right decision with Harden?
narmerguy wrote:One thing worth considering is how long it will take this new group to be "championship ready" again. They basically could have had several years in a row of championship contention with Harden, but even if we are to believe that their new pieces all work out (which they may not), it will take some time for them to be ready for the playoffs and the big stage. Can Durant wait?
OKC is championship ready now, but I think they'd be hard pressed to beat the Heat with or without Harden.
As Miami fades, OKC will emerge and have their run, and I believe they will win a couple titles.
Go Raps!!
Re: Did OKC make the right decision with Harden?
- theokie
- Assistant Coach
- Posts: 4,032
- And1: 617
- Joined: Dec 22, 2008
Re: Did OKC make the right decision with Harden?
As for keeping Ibaka and Westbrook? Yes Harden made the most sense to go. He's the only 1 of those guys who can't play a lick of defense. He's the only one that's not fearless. Ibaka and Westbrook impact the game when the ball isn't in their hands. Harden is useless without it. Also, Ibaka was 10 million cheaper.
Owners still should've just paid him though.
Owners still should've just paid him though.
spearsy23 wrote: Kevin Durant could save a dozen orphans from a fire and realgm would point out that Lebron would have just put the fire out.
Re: Did OKC make the right decision with Harden?
- NaturalThunder
- General Manager
- Posts: 8,490
- And1: 3,905
- Joined: Jun 13, 2012
Re: Did OKC make the right decision with Harden?
RoyceDa59 wrote:narmerguy wrote:One thing worth considering is how long it will take this new group to be "championship ready" again. They basically could have had several years in a row of championship contention with Harden, but even if we are to believe that their new pieces all work out (which they may not), it will take some time for them to be ready for the playoffs and the big stage. Can Durant wait?
OKC is championship ready now, but I think they'd be hard pressed to beat the Heat with or without Harden.
As Miami fades, OKC will emerge and have their run, and I believe they will win a couple titles.
If OKC can manage to keep KD, Westbrook, Ibaka, Jackson, Adams, and Lamb going forward, there could/should be some scary good OKC teams from 2015-2020 when Durant and Russ are peaking.
Said in a thread about which point guards would make OKC better if they replaced Westbrook:
Coxy wrote:I think with a PG like George Hill, they'd be better than current.
Re: Did OKC make the right decision with Harden?
-
- Pro Prospect
- Posts: 775
- And1: 429
- Joined: Mar 06, 2012
- Location: Quahog, R.I
Re: Did OKC make the right decision with Harden?
NaturalThunder wrote:RoyceDa59 wrote:narmerguy wrote:One thing worth considering is how long it will take this new group to be "championship ready" again. They basically could have had several years in a row of championship contention with Harden, but even if we are to believe that their new pieces all work out (which they may not), it will take some time for them to be ready for the playoffs and the big stage. Can Durant wait?
OKC is championship ready now, but I think they'd be hard pressed to beat the Heat with or without Harden.
As Miami fades, OKC will emerge and have their run, and I believe they will win a couple titles.
If OKC can manage to keep KD, Westbrook, Ibaka, Jackson, Adams, and Lamb going forward, there could/should be some scary good OKC teams from 2015-2020 when Durant and Russ are peaking.
Hate to break it to you buddy but if you guys don't win a championship in the next two years you can kiss Westbrook and Durant bye bye.
We small market teams just don't stand a chance against those marquee team/cities
Re: Did OKC make the right decision with Harden?
-
- General Manager
- Posts: 9,807
- And1: 8,607
- Joined: Jul 23, 2012
Re: Did OKC make the right decision with Harden?
No, no they didn't.
Re: Did OKC make the right decision with Harden?
- NaturalThunder
- General Manager
- Posts: 8,490
- And1: 3,905
- Joined: Jun 13, 2012
Re: Did OKC make the right decision with Harden?
GlennQuagmire wrote:NaturalThunder wrote:RoyceDa59 wrote:
OKC is championship ready now, but I think they'd be hard pressed to beat the Heat with or without Harden.
As Miami fades, OKC will emerge and have their run, and I believe they will win a couple titles.
If OKC can manage to keep KD, Westbrook, Ibaka, Jackson, Adams, and Lamb going forward, there could/should be some scary good OKC teams from 2015-2020 when Durant and Russ are peaking.
Hate to break it to you buddy but if you guys don't win a championship in the next two years you can kiss Westbrook and Durant bye bye.
We small market teams just don't stand a chance against those marquee team/cities
If you say so.
Said in a thread about which point guards would make OKC better if they replaced Westbrook:
Coxy wrote:I think with a PG like George Hill, they'd be better than current.
Re: Did OKC make the right decision with Harden?
-
- Banned User
- Posts: 862
- And1: 154
- Joined: Jan 01, 2013
Re: Did OKC make the right decision with Harden?
Im going to go ahead and say it. I've bitched about the Harden trade since day one. I hated it, hate it now, and to this day I believe OKC would be the best team in the league had they kept these guys together; far and away, no contest, indisputably. They'd be the cream, titans amongst gods, a dynasty to rival any this league has seen, and we blew it. Ruined what I thought was going to be impossibly brilliant, and more impossible to **** up. But its good, what's done is done, and tomorrow is new. That said:
I don't know if Presti is a god damned genius, or if he signed his contract with OKC in blood as a tribute to a deal made with the devil, but Oklahoma City is going come out of this trade clean. I've always thought Ibaka had the potential to develop into an all star quality big, but not this early. His development into a legitimate third option offensively with the strides he's made defensively is stupid. If this isn't a flash in the pan and he maintains this level of play into the playoffs, watch out, because he's only scratching the surface.
Which leads me to my next point: None of the pieces in the Harden trade will develop into a player as individually talented, but the sum of the parts could potentially equate to something comparable. The bench is more balanced now, and I really like what I've seen of Steven Adams. He's strong as hell, has great athleticism, good defensive instincts, and can catch and score around the basket. Huge improvement over Perkins or anything else the Thunder have had at the 5 since coming to OKC. Lamb has the potential to develop into an efficient 15ppg scorer with plus defense, and Jackson has the stuff of a top 5 6th man. If they can flip Perkins/Thabo/picks for a knock down shooter or two, I really like this team going forward.
The Harden trade was a mistake, no doubt about it, but OKC might be alright.
I don't know if Presti is a god damned genius, or if he signed his contract with OKC in blood as a tribute to a deal made with the devil, but Oklahoma City is going come out of this trade clean. I've always thought Ibaka had the potential to develop into an all star quality big, but not this early. His development into a legitimate third option offensively with the strides he's made defensively is stupid. If this isn't a flash in the pan and he maintains this level of play into the playoffs, watch out, because he's only scratching the surface.
Which leads me to my next point: None of the pieces in the Harden trade will develop into a player as individually talented, but the sum of the parts could potentially equate to something comparable. The bench is more balanced now, and I really like what I've seen of Steven Adams. He's strong as hell, has great athleticism, good defensive instincts, and can catch and score around the basket. Huge improvement over Perkins or anything else the Thunder have had at the 5 since coming to OKC. Lamb has the potential to develop into an efficient 15ppg scorer with plus defense, and Jackson has the stuff of a top 5 6th man. If they can flip Perkins/Thabo/picks for a knock down shooter or two, I really like this team going forward.
The Harden trade was a mistake, no doubt about it, but OKC might be alright.
Re: Did OKC make the right decision with Harden?
- monopoman
- RealGM
- Posts: 12,358
- And1: 6,221
- Joined: Nov 11, 2009
Re: Did OKC make the right decision with Harden?
I still get a kick out of OKC fans telling me there is no way they don't end up with Harden+Westbrook+Durant+Ibaka long term on this team back in 10/11.
I knew once Westbrook+Ibaka got those long term deals, he was gone one way or another their owner wasn't going to commit himself to luxury tax hell for 4+ years straight.
I also tried to convince them Harden would demand a near max contract or a max contract and they thought that was ridiculous at the time.
I knew once Westbrook+Ibaka got those long term deals, he was gone one way or another their owner wasn't going to commit himself to luxury tax hell for 4+ years straight.
I also tried to convince them Harden would demand a near max contract or a max contract and they thought that was ridiculous at the time.
Re: Did OKC make the right decision with Harden?
- SargentBargs101
- Assistant Coach
- Posts: 3,961
- And1: 307
- Joined: Apr 05, 2010
Re: Did OKC make the right decision with Harden?
Why are people making it seem like Wade was a vastly superior prospect than Darko back in 03? Hindsight is a wonderful thing
" Best case scenario Gordan Hayward becomes like Adam Morrison."