Dallas getting Tyson Chandler back?

[bran muffin]

IIRC Tyson did make the all-defensive team in 2011. It was the 2nd team but I remember there were Mavs media members making a big deal about it since it was like the first time in a decade that a Mav made the all-defensive team.

You're right, I didn't even remember that.

People,the only reason why Tyson is playing well is because he is bitter that he was traded. If he were still on the knicks he'd be pouting and playing like **** right now.

No. Tyson is beasting for the Mavs in 2014 for the same reason he was beasting for the Mavs in 2010. He's playing on a contract year. So it was no surprise when he showed up in Dallas this summer in as good a shape as he'd ever been. He would be in his best behavior and putting 100% effort this year, regardless of where he was playing. People forget that Tyson was also playing like garbage in Charlotte before he was traded to the Mavs in 2010... just in time for his contract year. $$$ is the biggest motivator for some players.

What is it that seems so lopsided about the trade?

Because the trade made no sense for New York. Shane Larkin is the young talent they're supposed to develop. But they didn't pick up his rookie option for next year, so he'll be a free agent. They dumped Wayne Ellington. Samuel Dalembert plays only 17 minutes per game.

The only decent piece they got was Calderon, who can help them win games now --- but not as much as a Tyson Chandler beasting for a contract year. Also, I was under the impression the Knicks were more interested in clearing cap space for a proper rebuild in 2015. Calderon occupies $22.2M of cap space over the next 3 years, and he'll be 34 yrs old after this season. He's not a good piece to be rebuilding with. Neither is Felton, but at least Felton's contract was pretty small. And Tyson Chandler's contract would've expired after the season anyway, so it's not like moving him improved the Knicks' 2015 cap situation.

[CnG]

The 2014 team can be just as good defensively as that 2011 team. Devin Harris is exceptional at defense. Ellis can play defense if he wants. Parsons isn't Marion but he's tall for a SF at 6'10. Dirk is the only liability and he makes up for it with his experience and height.

Personally I like Tyson's defense over's Dwight's and think he deserves 1st team defense. But Dwight is considered the best center so he'll likely get it and Tyson will get 2nd team again.

No way is Chandler getting 1st team defence. Gasol, Noah, Bogut and Dwight are all better off the top of my head.

[QRich3]

What is it that seems so lopsided about the trade?

Because the trade made no sense for New York. Shane Larkin is the young talent they're supposed to develop. But they didn't pick up his rookie option for next year, so he'll be a free agent. They dumped Wayne Ellington. Samuel Dalembert plays only 17 minutes per game.

The only decent piece they got was Calderon, who can help them win games now --- but not as much as a Tyson Chandler beasting for a contract year. Also, I was under the impression the Knicks were more interested in clearing cap space for a proper rebuild in 2015. Calderon occupies $22.2M of cap space over the next 3 years, and he'll be 34 yrs old after this season. He's not a good piece to be rebuilding with. Neither is Felton, but at least Felton's contract was pretty small. And Tyson Chandler's contract would've expired after the season anyway, so it's not like moving him improved the Knicks' 2015 cap situation.

And why would the Knicks want to win now? they're not gonna compete for a championship, I don't think anyone thought that when the trade was made. Even one of the selling points to re-sign Melo was, let's be bad this season and use the capspace we have next summer. You're basically saying what I'm saying, they got immediately bad but dumped Felton for a guy that wasn't gonna resign anyway, and they got a piece they can use in Calderon. I don't see a problem with that. You don't need to dump absolutely every guy under 25 to rebuild anyway, I don't know why you'd think that Jose is not a good piece for their rebuild. He's exactly the kind of guy I'd like to have next to my young ones.

And please, stop with the overstating of Chandler's "beasting". The Mavs are allowing nearly 5 more points per 100 poss. (to an already average defense) when he's on the floor than when he's out. Whether it's with the Nelson-Harris or Ellis-Harris, or even when they go small with Aminu instead of Dirk, most line-ups that include Tyson have a worse defensive rating than the Lakers (i.e. worst of all time), but whenever they go small without him, with Dirk or Wright at C, they're ok. All the numbers say he's the main culprit of the Mavs defense so far. He's gobbling a lot of rebounds but the Mavs are still the worst defensive rebounding team in the league. He's definitely a great offensive player and a mean screener, and I do actually love his game, but is he doing that well other than raw boxscore numbers?

[Perkele]

No. Tyson is beasting for the Mavs in 2014 for the same reason he was beasting for the Mavs in 2010. He's playing on a contract year. So it was no surprise when he showed up in Dallas this summer in as good a shape as he'd ever been. He would be in his best behavior and putting 100% effort this year, regardless of where he was playing. People forget that Tyson was also playing like garbage in Charlotte before he was traded to the Mavs in 2010... just in time for his contract year. $$$ is the biggest motivator for some players.

Pretty much this. Chandler has had a history of injuries and he's getting older as well. Free agency in 2015 will be his last chance for a huge contract, no wonder he's trying right now. Sure, as a Mavs fan I'm very happy regarding his current contributions. However, I'm not sure what Tyson will demand next summer. It will definitely also depend on how far the Mavs can go in the playoffs (assuming they make it). I doubt he can make as much as with his last contract, given his injury history and his age in comparsion to 2010. However, the discount he's likely willing to give will only be a small one I think. Let's see what the Mavs can do here. Monta is another case, he has a player option for 2015-16. I guess he'll opt out, looking for more money. Not sure if the Mavs can keep the roster together, will be heavily dependent on what Tyson and Monta command.

[bran muffin]

And why would the Knicks want to win now? they're not gonna compete for a championship

Exactly, which is why acquiring Calderon made no sense. Tyson expires after the season. Felton is owed only $3.9M after the season. Meanwhile, Calderon is older than both those guys and he is owed $22M over the next 3 years. Makes no sense.

I don't know why you'd think that Jose is not a good piece for their rebuild. He's exactly the kind of guy I'd like to have next to my young ones.

He'll be 34 yrs old after the season and occupying $7.5M of the salary cap. Calderon is a "win now" acquisition, not a rebuilding piece. Bottom line: Knicks get older and less cap space in 2015 & 2016 after the trade, than they would have been if they didn't do the trade.

And please, stop with the overstating of Chandler's "beasting". The Mavs are allowing nearly 5 more points per 100 poss. (to an already average defense) when he's on the floor than when he's out.

Plus/Minus stats are misleaing, so you shouldn't be putting too much stock into those.

Mavs' problems on defense is a direct result of having the worst defensive backcourt in the NBA for 2 years in a row. Monta/Calderon was atrocious last season, and Monta/Nelson is looking just as bad this season. Those undersized guards are playing matador defense every night. It doesn't help that the Mavs don't even have a legitimate shooting guard on the active roster. All they have is a bunch of undersized combo guards and point guards, and only one of whom bothers to play defense (Devin Harris).

Tyson isn't the reason the defense is playing badly. If these Mavs had a Marion, Kidd, and Stevenson instead of Parsons, Nelson and Monta... their defense will look more like 2011 and less like 2014.

[BKAY]

People,the only reason why Tyson is playing well is because he is bitter that he was traded.

He's not bitter that he was traded. He's on a better team with a better culture.

Exactly

Well I mean he sure as hell isnt mad about being on Dallas as opposed to the Knicks right now. I do think he was insulted that he was viewed as expendable though. Bitter probably wasn't the right word. Chip on his shoulder would probably be a better way to put it. So my point is, he wouldn't be playing like this if he were still in NY. and yeah yeah better team better culture better coach but that still doesn't excuse a player for playing 75% and quitting on the team which is a big concern for me because things can go south in the NBA and Tyson was VERY fair-weather in NY.

[Texas Chuck]

don't care why he's playing good. Contract year? OK Motivated by trade? OK Likes playing with Dirk? OK

Don't care if Knicks fans are happy with the deal, too. In fact I hope they are happy with their portion. Doesn't hurt us any.

He's been what we needed. Does he solve all our defensive problems? Of course not. Is the team better because he is on it? Absolutely.

Knicks fans can still be salty I guess, but its not like he was Willis Reed or Patrick Ewing. Seems like you could move on already.

[CDansby]

People,the only reason why Tyson is playing well is because he is bitter that he was traded. If he were still on the knicks he'd be pouting and playing like **** right now. Trust me, no matter how well he plays, knicks fans won't miss him. He quit on the team last year and it was so obvious. Not to mention when playoff season comes around and he's due for his annual flu bout.

Larkin is playing decent enough given the circumstances. Calderon in the triangle is better than Ray and Tyson in the triangle by far. Dalambert has given us pretty much what Tyson gave us at a fraction of the cost. Also allowed us to sign Jason Smith who has been good for the knicks. We also got Cleanthony early out of the deal who is a definite prospect although still very raw.

Calderon is not really in our future plans though. We will probAbly try and move him after this year if we can't bring Marc Gasol on.

Moving Tyson also freed up minutes for Aldrich and if Tyson were still around we'd probably have cut Wear. Neither of whom are super impressive but we are kind of half rebuilding and allows us to evaluate some more talent.

So if you ask me as a Knicks fan: Ray and Tyson or Dalambert, Calderon, Larkin, Early, and Jason Smith? I'll take the former all day.

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This post is so confusing. I just want to make sure you just said you feel Dallas won the trade with that last sentence.

[QRich3]

Plus/Minus stats are misleading, so you shouldn't be putting too much stock into those.

Way too much spin in your whole post to address it fully, and I'm not that interested in the Knicks or Calderon to get into an in-depth conversation about him and their future, but how can you just dismiss all plus/minus stats like that when they don't suit your argument? they're the ones that need the most context, but they're also the only ones that tell whole truths with no spin. I provided context and several other numbers to complete these, yet you don't want to see that Chandler has been bad on defense so far. If that's your point of view, I can understand why you think the trade was so lopsided, but you're not really looking at facts. Also, your whole argument is supported by Calderon missing the first 2 weeks of the season, which makes it reactionary at best.

[laploutocratie]

Seems like he got mentally worn out playing for the Knicks. Good to see Chandler back in form.

[matt6715]

No. Tyson is beasting for the Mavs in 2014 for the same reason he was beasting for the Mavs in 2010. He's playing on a contract year. So it was no surprise when he showed up in Dallas this summer in as good a shape as he'd ever been. He would be in his best behavior and putting 100% effort this year, regardless of where he was playing. People forget that Tyson was also playing like garbage in Charlotte before he was traded to the Mavs in 2010... just in time for his contract year. $$$ is the biggest motivator for some players.

Pretty much this. Chandler has had a history of injuries and he's getting older as well. Free agency in 2015 will be his last chance for a huge contract, no wonder he's trying right now. Sure, as a Mavs fan I'm very happy regarding his current contributions. However, I'm not sure what Tyson will demand next summer. It will definitely also depend on how far the Mavs can go in the playoffs (assuming they make it). I doubt he can make as much as with his last contract, given his injury history and his age in comparsion to 2010. However, the discount he's likely willing to give will only be a small one I think. Let's see what the Mavs can do here. Monta is another case, he has a player option for 2015-16. I guess he'll opt out, looking for more money. Not sure if the Mavs can keep the roster together, will be heavily dependent on what Tyson and Monta command.

Is that why Chandler won DPOY his first year of a 4 year deal?

[Texas Chuck]

Plus/Minus stats are misleading, so you shouldn't be putting too much stock into those.

Way too much spin in your whole post to address it fully, and I'm not that interested in the Knicks or Calderon to get into an in-depth conversation about him and their future, but how can you just dismiss all plus/minus stats like that when they don't suit your argument? they're the ones that need the most context, but they're also the only ones that tell whole truths with no spin. I provided context and several other numbers to complete these, yet you don't want to see that Chandler has been bad on defense so far. If that's your point of view, I can understand why you think the trade was so lopsided, but you're not really looking at facts. Also, your whole argument is supported by Calderon missing the first 2 weeks of the season, which makes it reactionary at best.

Im not sure you are providing as much context as you think. Tyson has the 2nd best drtg on the team right behind Aminu, His DBPM is again 2nd only to Aminu, he leads the team in DWS and despite being known more as an offensive rebounder has the best drbg% on the team.

Plus when you actually watch all the Mavericks games it becomes clear his value to us. You keep using Wright as your counter argument without addressing the fact that Rick basically won't play him against any quality offensive bigs, giving Greg Smith minutes against guys like Cousins or Al Jefferson. Chandler plays against 1st team guys. Wright plays against 2nd team guys and usually with good defenders Aminu and Harris sharing the court with him.

Im not going to suggest Tyson Chandler is the DPOY. But he is still a very good defensive big and he's playing well defensively for the team this year.

[Perkele]

No. Tyson is beasting for the Mavs in 2014 for the same reason he was beasting for the Mavs in 2010. He's playing on a contract year. So it was no surprise when he showed up in Dallas this summer in as good a shape as he'd ever been. He would be in his best behavior and putting 100% effort this year, regardless of where he was playing. People forget that Tyson was also playing like garbage in Charlotte before he was traded to the Mavs in 2010... just in time for his contract year. $$$ is the biggest motivator for some players.

Pretty much this. Chandler has had a history of injuries and he's getting older as well. Free agency in 2015 will be his last chance for a huge contract, no wonder he's trying right now. Sure, as a Mavs fan I'm very happy regarding his current contributions. However, I'm not sure what Tyson will demand next summer. It will definitely also depend on how far the Mavs can go in the playoffs (assuming they make it). I doubt he can make as much as with his last contract, given his injury history and his age in comparsion to 2010. However, the discount he's likely willing to give will only be a small one I think. Let's see what the Mavs can do here. Monta is another case, he has a player option for 2015-16. I guess he'll opt out, looking for more money. Not sure if the Mavs can keep the roster together, will be heavily dependent on what Tyson and Monta command.

Is that why Chandler won DPOY his first year of a 4 year deal?

Actually, I think if Miami had beaten Dallas in 2011 Chandler would probably not have won DPOY. He played well in 2011-12, but fore sure he benefitted from winning the whole thing one year earlier.

[QRich3]

Plus/Minus stats are misleading, so you shouldn't be putting too much stock into those.

Way too much spin in your whole post to address it fully, and I'm not that interested in the Knicks or Calderon to get into an in-depth conversation about him and their future, but how can you just dismiss all plus/minus stats like that when they don't suit your argument? they're the ones that need the most context, but they're also the only ones that tell whole truths with no spin. I provided context and several other numbers to complete these, yet you don't want to see that Chandler has been bad on defense so far. If that's your point of view, I can understand why you think the trade was so lopsided, but you're not really looking at facts. Also, your whole argument is supported by Calderon missing the first 2 weeks of the season, which makes it reactionary at best.

Im not sure you are providing as much context as you think. Tyson has the 2nd best drtg on the team right behind Aminu, His DBPM is again 2nd only to Aminu, he leads the team in DWS and despite being known more as an offensive rebounder has the best drbg% on the team.

Plus when you actually watch all the Mavericks games it becomes clear his value to us. You keep using Wright as your counter argument without addressing the fact that Rick basically won't play him against any quality offensive bigs, giving Greg Smith minutes against guys like Cousins or Al Jefferson. Chandler plays against 1st team guys. Wright plays against 2nd team guys and usually with good defenders Aminu and Harris sharing the court with him.

Im not going to suggest Tyson Chandler is the DPOY. But he is still a very good defensive big and he's playing well defensively for the team this year.

Well, I said the Mavs are a below average defensive team, and even with that, they're scored on a lot more when Tyson is on the floor than when he's out. I said he's shot at the rim a lot and he allows a way bigger percentage on those shots than any other average defensive center, and bigger than he used to on years prior. I said when he plays with Aminu they get outscored but when Aminu plays with Dirk or Wright and he sits they do ok (that's the only time I mentioned Wright btw, not sure I "keep" doing it). And I said that even though he's rebounding a great % the Mavs are the worst rebounding team in the league (also known as the David Lee and Carlos Boozer syndrome). Maybe that's not enough context, but in comparison, you just dropped 3 numbers without even trying to specify what those numbers say. And I, along with a lot of people, happen to think that individual DRtg and DWS are two of the most worthless stats around, and BPM is a way too new stat for me to understand yet.

Listen, like I said, I like Tyson a lot, and I think it's early and a lot of these tendencies will correct themselves as soon as they play more games, but you guys are just trying way too hard to make this trade some kind of sacking of the Knicks and I completely disagree with that. Chandler will be fine, the Mavs will be fine, but the Knicks probably will as well, or at least not any worse than they would if they didn't pull the trigger.

[three2theD]

Definitely the most lopsided trade of the year. Phil Jackson got raped on this one.

[NYKAL]

Definitely the most lopsided trade of the year. Phil Jackson got rapped on this one.

Tyson is in a contract year so, this is no surprise now and it wasn't during the trade. Tyson was totally dogging it last season but, good for the Mavs.

[BKAY]

People,the only reason why Tyson is playing well is because he is bitter that he was traded. If he were still on the knicks he'd be pouting and playing like **** right now. Trust me, no matter how well he plays, knicks fans won't miss him. He quit on the team last year and it was so obvious. Not to mention when playoff season comes around and he's due for his annual flu bout.

Larkin is playing decent enough given the circumstances. Calderon in the triangle is better than Ray and Tyson in the triangle by far. Dalambert has given us pretty much what Tyson gave us at a fraction of the cost. Also allowed us to sign Jason Smith who has been good for the knicks. We also got Cleanthony early out of the deal who is a definite prospect although still very raw.

Calderon is not really in our future plans though. We will probAbly try and move him after this year if we can't bring Marc Gasol on.

Moving Tyson also freed up minutes for Aldrich and if Tyson were still around we'd probably have cut Wear. Neither of whom are super impressive but we are kind of half rebuilding and allows us to evaluate some more talent.

So if you ask me as a Knicks fan: Ray and Tyson or Dalambert, Calderon, Larkin, Early, and Jason Smith? I'll take the former all day.

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This post is so confusing. I just want to make sure you just said you feel Dallas won the trade with that last sentence.

prefer the latter***
A trade isnt a contest though. I think both teams did well for themselves though. but im saying i'd rather have the package the knicks received for the knicks as a knicks fan. Calderon just makes more sense for the triangle and Tyson wore out his welcome in NY

[Deus]

Definitely the most lopsided trade of the year. Phil Jackson got rapped on this one.

Tyson is in a contract year so, this is no surprise now and it wasn't during the trade. Tyson was totally dogging it last season but, good for the Mavs.

He wasn't dogging it. He was angry at how horrible the Knicks were. Tyson wears his emotions on his sleeve. He hates players who dog it. Knicks fans who blame Tyson for losing last season need to blame the real culprit. You're GM Grunwald. I mean, who in the right mind trades for Bargs?!

[SlobbaN]

Lol, I remember Knicks fans trying to calm themselves by saying Dalembert "brings more to the table" than Chandler. The guy has been very good so far, massive upgrade at C. It also helps that Wright keeps improving. We are a qulity starting PG away from being a serious contender.

[Governor Dudley]

Definitely the most lopsided trade of the year. Phil Jackson got rapped on this one.

Tyson is in a contract year so, this is no surprise now and it wasn't during the trade. Tyson was totally dogging it last season but, good for the Mavs.

He wasn't dogging it. He was angry at how horrible the Knicks were. Tyson wears his emotions on his sleeve. He hates players who dog it. Knicks fans who blame Tyson for losing last season need to blame the real culprit. You're GM Grunwald. I mean, who in the right mind trades for Bargs?!

Not only Grunwald, but Woodson and the knucklehead players.