If LeBron's Heat were in the West, how many rings?

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How many championships would Miami have won if they were in the West?

0 - No Finals Appearances
31
19%
0 - Finals appearances, but no championships
14
8%
1
65
39%
2
39
23%
3
6
4%
4
12
7%
 
Total votes: 167

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Re: If LeBron's Heat were in the West, how many rings? 

Post#41 » by kodo » Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:53 pm

Side beard wrote:
COM_GTFO wrote:
Side beard wrote:Same thing could be asked about another particular person who was dominant around early and mid 90s.


I don't get it. Are you trying to say that Jordan would have won less in the West?

Jordan's 6-0 against the West in the Finals, so I don't see why it'd be different if he was in the West.

I am not questioning his finals record, but there is such thing as road to finals.


The conferences were about equal in the 90s if not favoring the EC slightly.

In 96 the Bulls road to the Finals was vs a 42 win team, 47 win team, 60 win team.
In 96, the Sonics road to the Finals was vs a 39 win team, 48 win team, 55 win team.

In 97, Bulls vs 44 win team, 56 win team, 61 win team.
In 97, Jazz vs 36 win team, 56 win team, 57 win team.

In 98, Bulls vs a 43 win team, 51 win team, 58 win team.
In 98, Jazz vs a 41 win team, 56 win team, 61 win team.

In Conf Finals the Bulls played 60 win, 61 win, 58 win teams.
In Conf Finals the Sonics & Jazz played 55 win, 57 win, 61 win teams.

Not really much difference back then.
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Re: If LeBron's Heat were in the West, how many rings? 

Post#42 » by Tacoma » Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:12 pm

SlowPaced wrote:Same. 2.

shangrila wrote:
RonySeikalyFTW wrote:I don't understand this line of thinking. The Spurs and Thunder have dominated the WC the last 3 years, and in that time the Heat have defeated both of those teams in a 7 game series.

It's simple. Miami was walking into the Finals every season with little if any competition. That doesn't happen in the Western conference where it's much tougher to sweep the lower seeds, let alone not being able to take it easy against weak East teams during the season.


That "breeze through" logic only applies to the 2013-2014 season which the Heat couldn't even get the title. They had to play Game 7s against Celtics and Pacers in 2012 and 2013, respectively. East teams might not look amazing in the regular season but East Playoffs are much more of a grind-out than West Playoffs. East is traditionally the more physical of the conferences.


If by physical you mean much tougher stifling defense, I'd say the West is still much better overall. I don't think teams like NJ, WASH and even IND would've made it past the 1st round in the west. Your reasoning that they played to Game 7 against Celtics and Pacers only supports that if they struggled against these teams, they would've struggled even more in the West and likely not have made the NBA Finals had they been in the West.
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Re: If LeBron's Heat were in the West, how many rings? 

Post#43 » by youOK » Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:36 pm

Tacoma wrote:
SlowPaced wrote:Same. 2.

shangrila wrote:It's simple. Miami was walking into the Finals every season with little if any competition. That doesn't happen in the Western conference where it's much tougher to sweep the lower seeds, let alone not being able to take it easy against weak East teams during the season.


That "breeze through" logic only applies to the 2013-2014 season which the Heat couldn't even get the title. They had to play Game 7s against Celtics and Pacers in 2012 and 2013, respectively. East teams might not look amazing in the regular season but East Playoffs are much more of a grind-out than West Playoffs. East is traditionally the more physical of the conferences.


If by physical you mean much tougher stifling defense, I'd say the West is still much better overall. I don't think teams like NJ, WASH and even IND would've made it past the 1st round in the west. Your reasoning that they played to Game 7 against Celtics and Pacers only supports that if they struggled against these teams, they would've struggled even more in the West and likely not have made the NBA Finals had they been in the West.


The Pacers, Heat, and Nets all had better records against the West than everyone but SA, OKC, and LAC. Could they have lost 1st round sure, just like HOU lost 1st round. However, they could have easily won as well. They would have faced teams with better records sure, but that doesn't mean that they couldn't have beaten them. If these teams were in the West instead of the east they would have been tough outs for any of the western teams. Its not like the LAC were going to roll through MIA or IND. I think the road for MIA would have been harder but they still end up with both championships.
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Re: If LeBron's Heat were in the West, how many rings? 

Post#44 » by Edrees » Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:39 pm

RonySeikalyFTW wrote:I don't understand this line of thinking. The Spurs and Thunder have dominated the WC the last 3 years, and in that time the Heat have defeated both of those teams in a 7 game series.


Game 7 against the spurs would have likely been in San Antonio instead, therefore the outcome of the series could have been completely different.

I think they win the year they beat OKC but I doubt they repeat. Imagine if they had to face Memphis round 1, OKC round 2, and spurs round 3.
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Re: If LeBron's Heat were in the West, how many rings? 

Post#45 » by BenoUdrihFTL » Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:31 pm

Edrees wrote:
RonySeikalyFTW wrote:I don't understand this line of thinking. The Spurs and Thunder have dominated the WC the last 3 years, and in that time the Heat have defeated both of those teams in a 7 game series.


Game 7 against the spurs would have likely been in San Antonio instead, therefore the outcome of the series could have been completely different.

I think they win the year they beat OKC but I doubt they repeat. Imagine if they had to face Memphis round 1, OKC round 2, and spurs round 3.


Heat would've had HCA vs the Spurs in 2013

Miami won 66 games in '13 compared to 58 for SA and that was with Miami playing in the East (Heat had a better reg season win% vs the West than vs the East). Heat would've been approaching 70 wins as a WC team that season.
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Re: If LeBron's Heat were in the West, how many rings? 

Post#46 » by Little Digger » Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:34 pm

The Heat only played in 4 legit playoff series during the LJ era..They we're VERY fortunate to come out with a 2-2 record.
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Re: If LeBron's Heat were in the West, how many rings? 

Post#47 » by Phila Tough » Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:36 pm

We can speculate all we want but the fact of the matter is they aren't. They were a joy to watch and cheer against while they had their run. I still think they end up with 2 championships if in the west.
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Re: If LeBron's Heat were in the West, how many rings? 

Post#48 » by NZB2323 » Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:57 pm

Side beard wrote:
COM_GTFO wrote:
Side beard wrote:Same thing could be asked about another particular person who was dominant around early and mid 90s.


I don't get it. Are you trying to say that Jordan would have won less in the West?

Jordan's 6-0 against the West in the Finals, so I don't see why it'd be different if he was in the West.

I am not questioning his finals record, but there is such thing as road to finals.


The only teams to take Jordan's Bulls to 7 games were in the East. The Knicks in 92 and the Pacers in 98. He also swept the 2 time defending champion Detroit Pistons in 91, in the east.

The hardest playoff series Jordan had in his career were in the East.

I think the better question would be if Bird's Celtics and Magic's Lakers traded conferences in the 80s, would Magic have less rings and Bird more? The East had the 76ers in the early 80s and the Pistons in the late 80s, and both of those teams beat the Lakers in the finals.
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Re: If LeBron's Heat were in the West, how many rings? 

Post#49 » by Jonny Blaze » Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:59 pm

HotelVitale wrote:
shangrila wrote:
RonySeikalyFTW wrote:I don't understand this line of thinking. The Spurs and Thunder have dominated the WC the last 3 years, and in that time the Heat have defeated both of those teams in a 7 game series.

It's simple. Miami was walking into the Finals every season with little if any competition. That doesn't happen in the Western conference where it's much tougher to sweep the lower seeds, let alone not being able to take it easy against weak East teams during the season.

They were still probably the best team in the league during their first three years. The Mavs played incredible in that series and legitimately won it, but they seemed like they were at peak level--if the series was played 3 weeks or 6 weeks later I could easily see them playing worse and not matching up with the Heat.

It's a hard thing to guess--prognosticating two more series in which a team is the favorite but faces a real chance of being upset. I guess you'd have to lower their chances somewhat but I feel like they already lost one series they probably should have won (against the Mavs) and, since the best team wins most of the time in the NBA, I'm not comfortable saying they would've lost another.


How the hell do you beat a team 6 out of 8 times including 3 out of 4 on their home court if you are not the better team?

Seriously.

I recently rewatched the entire 2011 NBA Finals. The Mavs won that series because they were a better team than the Miami Heat.

Miami ran out of gas during the 4th quarter of Game 4 and never recovered.....very similar to how a 800m track and field runner might get passed in the last 200m of a race after leading the first 600 meters.

The Mavs were able to do this because they were a much deeper team with better depth.

Isn't an 8 game sample enough to figure out which team is better? Isn't that the whole point of playing the games....to see who is better?

The only wins by double digits I see are by the Mavs....while both of the Heat wins were relatively close games.

(Dallas) Game 1: Mavs 106 Heat 95
(Miami) Game 2: Mavs 98 Heat 96
(Miami) Game 3: Heat 92 Mavs 84
(Miami) Game 4: Mavs 95 Heat 93
(Dallas) Game 5: Heat 88 Mavs 86
(Dallas) Game 6: Mavs 86 Heat 83
(Dallas) Game 7: Mavs 112 Heat 103
(Miami) Game 8: Mavs 105 Heat 95
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Re: If LeBron's Heat were in the West, how many rings? 

Post#50 » by Archerbro » Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:07 pm

I'm thinking it goes down to one, because they probably still get beat in 2014/2011. But wish wade playing so bad in 2013 in the later rounds, I think they possibly don't make it or lose earlier.

I guess you could argue the same in 2012 for Bosh, but their small ball really made up for his loss.
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Re: If LeBron's Heat were in the West, how many rings? 

Post#51 » by qm22 » Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:17 pm

An odd part of the "easy path to the finals" suggestion is the case of 2012. The supposedly easy path featured (thanks to Bosh injury) threat of elimination from the Pacers and Celtics. People say the Celtics were terrible and Miami wouldn't even make the finals in the West, then they manhandled OKC in a backdoor sweep.

All the metrics say that Miami's path was way easier. But the actual results from the path showed that easy path to have more difficulty than facing a WC champion.

Part of the reason is the physical play and match-ups being much more profound in the playoffs. If there was no Hibbert verticality or reversion of handchecking rule against KG illegal screens, than Miami probably would have had an easy time with them. In the '12 series against Boston, everyone's reaction after game 1 was Boston was too old to compete. But afterward they were allowed to play a much more physical game. Obviously Indiana was physical too, and in a way that was most effective against a small team.

The physical play and matchups ==> reducing difference in talent. Against both of these opponents the result was Miami having to live by their jumpers and outside shooting. Last year they beat the higher seeded Pacers in a much less difficult way than the past because their outside shooting was there.

Other than the Spurs and '11 Mavs I don't think there is a bad matchup for Miami in the West the past 4 years. Having said that, Miami might have made moves simply based on trying to get past SA if they were in the West, so it wouldn't be fair to expect them to matchup in an identical way.
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Re: If LeBron's Heat were in the West, how many rings? 

Post#52 » by rasta_marley » Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:19 pm

HotelVitale wrote:
shangrila wrote:
RonySeikalyFTW wrote:I don't understand this line of thinking. The Spurs and Thunder have dominated the WC the last 3 years, and in that time the Heat have defeated both of those teams in a 7 game series.

It's simple. Miami was walking into the Finals every season with little if any competition. That doesn't happen in the Western conference where it's much tougher to sweep the lower seeds, let alone not being able to take it easy against weak East teams during the season.

They were still probably the best team in the league during their first three years. The Mavs played incredible in that series and legitimately won it, but they seemed like they were at peak level--if the series was played 3 weeks or 6 weeks later I could easily see them playing worse and not matching up with the Heat.

It's a hard thing to guess--prognosticating two more series in which a team is the favorite but faces a real chance of being upset. I guess you'd have to lower their chances somewhat but I feel like they already lost one series they probably should have won (against the Mavs) and, since the best team wins most of the time in the NBA, I'm not comfortable saying they would've lost another.


:crazy: Um the Maves EASILY beat them in the finals, Dallas was on a whole other level at that point, there was no way the Heat were going to win that series lol.... :noway:
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Re: If LeBron's Heat were in the West, how many rings? 

Post#53 » by Edrees » Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:25 pm

RonySeikalyFTW wrote:
Edrees wrote:
RonySeikalyFTW wrote:I don't understand this line of thinking. The Spurs and Thunder have dominated the WC the last 3 years, and in that time the Heat have defeated both of those teams in a 7 game series.


Game 7 against the spurs would have likely been in San Antonio instead, therefore the outcome of the series could have been completely different.

I think they win the year they beat OKC but I doubt they repeat. Imagine if they had to face Memphis round 1, OKC round 2, and spurs round 3.


Heat would've had HCA vs the Spurs in 2013

Miami won 66 games in '13 compared to 58 for SA and that was with Miami playing in the East (Heat had a better reg season win% vs the West than vs the East). Heat would've been approaching 70 wins as a WC team that season.


Yeah because they could take nights off against pathetic east teams and save their energy to play their hardest against the few good teams they faced. I think their record would come out much different extracted over a larger sample size against better opponents. For example, the 2007-2008 Houston Rockets once went on a 22 game win streak, in a stretch where they went 27-3 or something close to that. Miami only had 30 games against the West. If you were to extract Houston's 30 games on the entire season you'd calculate that they'd go undefeated or nearly undefeated. It doesn't work that way, 30 games is too small a sample size.

Let's say Miami played Spurs twice in regular season and beat them twice. They'd be 2-0. Would you honestly extrapolate that they'd be 5-0 if they played the Spurs five times?

If they were 2-0 against the bobcoats, I think it's reasonable to extrapolate 5-0 against them in 5 games. But you can't so easily assume the same would happen against a more regular dose of higher level competition. Miami's record would 100% for sure take a hit having to place better competition more often over the long coarse of a season.
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Re: If LeBron's Heat were in the West, how many rings? 

Post#54 » by PaulieWal » Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:29 pm

Edrees wrote:
RonySeikalyFTW wrote:
Edrees wrote:
Game 7 against the spurs would have likely been in San Antonio instead, therefore the outcome of the series could have been completely different.

I think they win the year they beat OKC but I doubt they repeat. Imagine if they had to face Memphis round 1, OKC round 2, and spurs round 3.


Heat would've had HCA vs the Spurs in 2013

Miami won 66 games in '13 compared to 58 for SA and that was with Miami playing in the East (Heat had a better reg season win% vs the West than vs the East). Heat would've been approaching 70 wins as a WC team that season.


Yeah because they could take nights off against pathetic east teams and save their energy to play their hardest against the few good teams they faced. I think their record would come out much different extracted over a larger sample size.


2013 RS Heat was the best version of the Heat in the RS during the Big 3 era. You had LeBron at his peak or second peak if you believe in 09, Wade was healthy during the RS, he averaged 23/6/6 during the streak, and the entire team was clicking with the shooters and floor spacing.

You point about the sample size isn't really valid because Miami had its 27 game win streak in 2013 and every single team (regardless of conference) they played during that played the game as if it were the playoffs.
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Re: If LeBron's Heat were in the West, how many rings? 

Post#55 » by qm22 » Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:32 pm

Jonny Blaze wrote:
How the hell do you beat a team 6 out of 8 times including 3 out of 4 on their home court if you are not the better team?

Seriously.

I recently rewatched the entire 2011 NBA Finals. The Mavs won that series because they were a better team than the Miami Heat.

Miami ran out of gas during the 4th quarter of Game 4 and never recovered.....very similar to how a 800m track and field runner might get passed in the last 200m of a race after leading the first 600 meters.

The Mavs were able to do this because they were a much deeper team with better depth.

Isn't an 8 game sample enough to figure out which team is better? Isn't that the whole point of playing the games....to see who is better?

The only wins by double digits I see are by the Mavs....while both of the Heat wins were relatively close games.

(Dallas) Game 1: Mavs 106 Heat 95
(Miami) Game 2: Mavs 98 Heat 96
(Miami) Game 3: Heat 92 Mavs 84
(Miami) Game 4: Mavs 95 Heat 93
(Dallas) Game 5: Heat 88 Mavs 86
(Dallas) Game 6: Mavs 86 Heat 83
(Dallas) Game 7: Mavs 112 Heat 103
(Miami) Game 8: Mavs 105 Heat 95


I'm not going to say anything about the regular season. The Mavs were the better team because they won, that's pretty self-explanatory. But it's fair to question if Miami could have managed a different outcome if they had played things differently. Especially games 2 and 4.
Game 2 they were up by 15 with 7:30 to go and only score 2 more points in the next 7 minutes. LeBron was fatigued, taken out of his game by the Mavs, or had some really weird meltdown. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxAL3lzwsbU

You can see in game 2 (or 4 since you're counting from RS games) he has some horrible offense to manage the lead. He goes away from Wade, takes some bad long distance shots leading to fast breaks, and was responsible for defensive breakdowns on 4 of the other possessions. He was mentally out of it from what I can tell (saying my bad while watching a 3 go up and patting his chest rather than worrying about the play not being over since it hadn't gone in). In game 4 he only had 8 points. Someone of LeBron's caliber should have not had trouble (famously) not being able to back down Jason Kidd in the post. It was probably the strangest series of LeBron's career.

Since it was somewhat close it isn't unreasonable to be curious if Miami had a shot to win if they played a bit differently, rather than saying it is a black and white situation of Dallas being way out of Miami's reach.
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Re: If LeBron's Heat were in the West, how many rings? 

Post#56 » by JF5 » Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:55 pm

qm22 wrote:
Jonny Blaze wrote:
How the hell do you beat a team 6 out of 8 times including 3 out of 4 on their home court if you are not the better team?

Seriously.

I recently rewatched the entire 2011 NBA Finals. The Mavs won that series because they were a better team than the Miami Heat.

Miami ran out of gas during the 4th quarter of Game 4 and never recovered.....very similar to how a 800m track and field runner might get passed in the last 200m of a race after leading the first 600 meters.

The Mavs were able to do this because they were a much deeper team with better depth.

Isn't an 8 game sample enough to figure out which team is better? Isn't that the whole point of playing the games....to see who is better?

The only wins by double digits I see are by the Mavs....while both of the Heat wins were relatively close games.

(Dallas) Game 1: Mavs 106 Heat 95
(Miami) Game 2: Mavs 98 Heat 96
(Miami) Game 3: Heat 92 Mavs 84
(Miami) Game 4: Mavs 95 Heat 93
(Dallas) Game 5: Heat 88 Mavs 86
(Dallas) Game 6: Mavs 86 Heat 83
(Dallas) Game 7: Mavs 112 Heat 103
(Miami) Game 8: Mavs 105 Heat 95


I'm not going to say anything about the regular season. The Mavs were the better team because they won, that's pretty self-explanatory. But it's fair to question if Miami could have managed a different outcome if they had played things differently. Especially games 2 and 4.
Game 2 they were up by 15 with 7:30 to go and only score 2 more points in the next 7 minutes. LeBron was fatigued, taken out of his game by the Mavs, or had some really weird meltdown. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxAL3lzwsbU

You can see in game 2 (or 4 since you're counting from RS games) he has some horrible offense to manage the lead. He goes away from Wade, takes some bad long distance shots leading to fast breaks, and was responsible for defensive breakdowns on 4 of the other possessions. He was mentally out of it from what I can tell (saying my bad while watching a 3 go up and patting his chest rather than worrying about the play not being over since it hadn't gone in). In game 4 he only had 8 points. Someone of LeBron's caliber should have not had trouble (famously) not being able to back down Jason Kidd in the post. It was probably the strangest series of LeBron's career.

Since it was somewhat close it isn't unreasonable to be curious if Miami had a shot to win if they played a bit differently, rather than saying it is a black and white situation of Dallas being way out of Miami's reach.


Weren't the Spurs up 5-6 points and seconds away from winning the Championship in 2013? Dallas coming back with 7:30 in game 2 isn't as "lucky" compared to the Heat at the end of regulation in game 6 against the spurs. Lets get that straight. Plus, Dallas had swept the defending champion Lakers in 2011 in dominating fashion. People continually overlook that. Also, the Heat were up 2-1 and the Mavs beat them 3 straight. The Mavs were clearly the better team that year.
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Re: If LeBron's Heat were in the West, how many rings? 

Post#57 » by BenoUdrihFTL » Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:29 pm

Edrees wrote:
RonySeikalyFTW wrote:
Edrees wrote:
Game 7 against the spurs would have likely been in San Antonio instead, therefore the outcome of the series could have been completely different.

I think they win the year they beat OKC but I doubt they repeat. Imagine if they had to face Memphis round 1, OKC round 2, and spurs round 3.


Heat would've had HCA vs the Spurs in 2013

Miami won 66 games in '13 compared to 58 for SA and that was with Miami playing in the East (Heat had a better reg season win% vs the West than vs the East). Heat would've been approaching 70 wins as a WC team that season.


Yeah because they could take nights off against pathetic east teams and save their energy to play their hardest against the few good teams they faced. I think their record would come out much different extracted over a larger sample size against better opponents. For example, the 2007-2008 Houston Rockets once went on a 22 game win streak, in a stretch where they went 27-3 or something close to that. Miami only had 30 games against the West. If you were to extract Houston's 30 games on the entire season you'd calculate that they'd go undefeated or nearly undefeated. It doesn't work that way, 30 games is too small a sample size.

Let's say Miami played Spurs twice in regular season and beat them twice. They'd be 2-0. Would you honestly extrapolate that they'd be 5-0 if they played the Spurs five times?

If they were 2-0 against the bobcoats, I think it's reasonable to extrapolate 5-0 against them in 5 games. But you can't so easily assume the same would happen against a more regular dose of higher level competition. Miami's record would 100% for sure take a hit having to place better competition more often over the long coarse of a season.



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Miami won .788% of their games vs the EC and .833% of their games vs the WC. There is absolutely no reason to believe they would've won an overall .707% (58 wins tied for SA) had they played in the West.
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Re: If LeBron's Heat were in the West, how many rings? 

Post#58 » by Slava » Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:46 pm

I think they'd have a **** load of trouble against teams like Memphis and Clippers that can force their size advantage on them. They'd likely have won in 2012 but I doubt the next one. Especially they cannot win as many games in the West with Wade taking as much time off as he did.
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Re: If LeBron's Heat were in the West, how many rings? 

Post#59 » by Jonny Blaze » Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:16 pm

qm22 wrote:
Jonny Blaze wrote:
How the hell do you beat a team 6 out of 8 times including 3 out of 4 on their home court if you are not the better team?

Seriously.

I recently rewatched the entire 2011 NBA Finals. The Mavs won that series because they were a better team than the Miami Heat.

Miami ran out of gas during the 4th quarter of Game 4 and never recovered.....very similar to how a 800m track and field runner might get passed in the last 200m of a race after leading the first 600 meters.

The Mavs were able to do this because they were a much deeper team with better depth.

Isn't an 8 game sample enough to figure out which team is better? Isn't that the whole point of playing the games....to see who is better?

The only wins by double digits I see are by the Mavs....while both of the Heat wins were relatively close games.

(Dallas) Game 1: Mavs 106 Heat 95
(Miami) Game 2: Mavs 98 Heat 96
(Miami) Game 3: Heat 92 Mavs 84
(Miami) Game 4: Mavs 95 Heat 93
(Dallas) Game 5: Heat 88 Mavs 86
(Dallas) Game 6: Mavs 86 Heat 83
(Dallas) Game 7: Mavs 112 Heat 103
(Miami) Game 8: Mavs 105 Heat 95


I'm not going to say anything about the regular season. The Mavs were the better team because they won, that's pretty self-explanatory. But it's fair to question if Miami could have managed a different outcome if they had played things differently. Especially games 2 and 4.
Game 2 they were up by 15 with 7:30 to go and only score 2 more points in the next 7 minutes. LeBron was fatigued, taken out of his game by the Mavs, or had some really weird meltdown. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxAL3lzwsbU

You can see in game 2 (or 4 since you're counting from RS games) he has some horrible offense to manage the lead. He goes away from Wade, takes some bad long distance shots leading to fast breaks, and was responsible for defensive breakdowns on 4 of the other possessions. He was mentally out of it from what I can tell (saying my bad while watching a 3 go up and patting his chest rather than worrying about the play not being over since it hadn't gone in). In game 4 he only had 8 points. Someone of LeBron's caliber should have not had trouble (famously) not being able to back down Jason Kidd in the post. It was probably the strangest series of LeBron's career.

Since it was somewhat close it isn't unreasonable to be curious if Miami had a shot to win if they played a bit differently, rather than saying it is a black and white situation of Dallas being way out of Miami's reach.


I can also play that game.

Do you realize that if Chris Bosh misses that jumper he hit at the end of Finals game 3 and Dirk hits the shot that he missed at the end of the game ......that the Mavs win the NBA Finals 4 games to 1.

Yes the series was close.....but the better team prevailed.

Miami didn't have any double digit victory against the Mavs.
The Mavs have an 11 point victory, a 10 point victory and a 9 point victory.

If you play a team 4 times on their home court and you beat them 3 times....(with two of them being by double digits) than you are the better basketball team.......PERIOD.


I'm not going to say anything about the regular season. The Mavs were the better team because they won, that's pretty self-explanatory. But it's fair to question if Miami could have managed a different outcome if they had played things differently. Especially games 2 and 4.
Game 2 they were up by 15 with 7:30 to go and only score 2 more points in the next 7 minutes. LeBron was fatigued, taken out of his game by the Mavs, or had some really weird meltdown. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxAL3lzwsbU


NBA Finals game 2 was a close game for the entire game until the 4th quarter. Miami is up 2 points and then the Heat go on a 13-0 run to start the 4th quarter to go up 15.

The Mavs then match the Heat run with a 22-5 run to end the game.

Do you wanna know you go on a 22-5 run to end game 2, or how you hold the Heat to 14 points in the 4th quarter of Game 4?

You do it by playing some serious, serious defense.

Its not dumb luck, or Lebron not trying.

Its having a defensive strategy and sticking to it.

Do you watch boxing? If you do, you might be familiar with this analogy.

How many times have you seen a boxer kick ass in the first 5 or 6 rounds, but run out of gas in the later rounds of the fight and lose?

Miami ran out of gas in the 4th quarter of Game 4 of the 2011 NBA Finals.

Against a lesser team like Boston or Chicago they would have probably already been up 3-1....but against a much deeper team....the Mavs depth help them pull away from the Heat in Games 4, 5 and 6.
qm22
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Re: If LeBron's Heat were in the West, how many rings? 

Post#60 » by qm22 » Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:54 pm

JF5 wrote:
qm22 wrote:
Jonny Blaze wrote:
How the hell do you beat a team 6 out of 8 times including 3 out of 4 on their home court if you are not the better team?

Seriously.

I recently rewatched the entire 2011 NBA Finals. The Mavs won that series because they were a better team than the Miami Heat.

Miami ran out of gas during the 4th quarter of Game 4 and never recovered.....very similar to how a 800m track and field runner might get passed in the last 200m of a race after leading the first 600 meters.

The Mavs were able to do this because they were a much deeper team with better depth.

Isn't an 8 game sample enough to figure out which team is better? Isn't that the whole point of playing the games....to see who is better?

The only wins by double digits I see are by the Mavs....while both of the Heat wins were relatively close games.

(Dallas) Game 1: Mavs 106 Heat 95
(Miami) Game 2: Mavs 98 Heat 96
(Miami) Game 3: Heat 92 Mavs 84
(Miami) Game 4: Mavs 95 Heat 93
(Dallas) Game 5: Heat 88 Mavs 86
(Dallas) Game 6: Mavs 86 Heat 83
(Dallas) Game 7: Mavs 112 Heat 103
(Miami) Game 8: Mavs 105 Heat 95


I'm not going to say anything about the regular season. The Mavs were the better team because they won, that's pretty self-explanatory. But it's fair to question if Miami could have managed a different outcome if they had played things differently. Especially games 2 and 4.
Game 2 they were up by 15 with 7:30 to go and only score 2 more points in the next 7 minutes. LeBron was fatigued, taken out of his game by the Mavs, or had some really weird meltdown. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxAL3lzwsbU

You can see in game 2 (or 4 since you're counting from RS games) he has some horrible offense to manage the lead. He goes away from Wade, takes some bad long distance shots leading to fast breaks, and was responsible for defensive breakdowns on 4 of the other possessions. He was mentally out of it from what I can tell (saying my bad while watching a 3 go up and patting his chest rather than worrying about the play not being over since it hadn't gone in). In game 4 he only had 8 points. Someone of LeBron's caliber should have not had trouble (famously) not being able to back down Jason Kidd in the post. It was probably the strangest series of LeBron's career.

Since it was somewhat close it isn't unreasonable to be curious if Miami had a shot to win if they played a bit differently, rather than saying it is a black and white situation of Dallas being way out of Miami's reach.


Weren't the Spurs up 5-6 points and seconds away from winning the Championship in 2013? Dallas coming back with 7:30 in game 2 isn't as "lucky" compared to the Heat at the end of regulation in game 6 against the spurs. Lets get that straight. Plus, Dallas had swept the defending champion Lakers in 2011 in dominating fashion. People continually overlook that. Also, the Heat were up 2-1 and the Mavs beat them 3 straight. The Mavs were clearly the better team that year.


Yeah, in my post I never said luck anywhere or that Dallas was not the better team so this seems like a straw man. Luck had nothing whatsoever to do with the Mavs win.

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