Released: Hawks scouting report on Luol Deng

[Wordz]

Ferry **** up. Plain and simple. Now eat the consequences. You are a multi millionaire who spends his time with all sorts of cultures and nationalities, you travel way more than the ordinary human being. There is no excuse for your ignorance and racial stereotyping. Saying a man exhibits African traits because he will stab you in your back is racist, ignorant and should not be condoned nor should excuses be made for him.

We hold players to this high level of standards, where we fine them for any misstep they do, if anything, FO personnel should be held at an even higher level of standard

[PCProductions]

It's funny that he says it in such a broad stroke, too. Africa? There's 54 countries in that continent...

[JonFromVA]

Ferry **** up. Plain and simple. Now eat the consequences. You are a multi millionaire who spends his time with all sorts of cultures and nationalities, you travel way more than the ordinary human being. There is no excuse for your ignorance and racial stereotyping. Saying a man exhibits African traits because he will stab you in your back is racist, ignorant and should not be condoned nor should excuses be made for him.

We hold players to this high level of standards, where we fine them for any misstep they do, if anything, FO personnel should be held at an even higher level of standard

I disagree. At worst he made a mistake,owned up, apologized and everybody should move on.

If he did something that's got to be considered unforgivable, then the entire Hawks ownership group should be fired with him because they sat in on that call and the only thing they could do was make a joke about the comment showing up at TMZ.

[Dr Pepper]

We hold players to this high level of standards, where we fine them for any misstep they do, if anything, FO personnel should be held at an even higher level of standard

NBA has had pretty low standards: multiple felons as refs (not even including Donaghy), Sterling's reign, rapists, DUIs, homophobic slurs, etc. If you have talent you just get fined and move on. Otherwise Hibbert, Kobe, Dwight, etc. would be gone for their homophobic slurs. 2 of the most winning teams also have politically incorrect statements from their owners or FO like Mark Cuban saying he'd walk across the street to avoid a black kid, Pop and Co. say Americans are lazy, etc.

Ferry deserves a second chance just as much as any of the above (minus Sterling and Billy Hunter)

[MaceCase]

I also wonder about the assertion that Ferry was the biggest supporter of signing Deng to the Hawks. His comments about Deng seem primarily derived from that single negative assessment. Maybe he was trying to do a favor for his old friend, maybe he just had blind trust in the assessment without really analyzing it (and maybe removing a few choice words), but I didn't hear a lot of support for signing Deng in that call.

Well you also can't say that you heard the entire call neither but just the relevant snippet recorded and released by the same party that made this entire debacle public not as social justice warriors but rather as an opportunity to reassert their dominance within the ownership structure (a hint: it's the guys you hear high-fiving, laughing, and making the TMZ comment in the background). I say this because I've never been on a conference call that involved that many high powered individuals last less than 5 minutes. Ferry could have gone on talking about the merits of Deng for 30 minutes but the damage was already done, he already provided the smoking gun. Yes, his familiarity with Grant may have led his eyes to pick out that assessment but as far as his actions go, Deng was a top priority for the Hawks and the Hawks did offer him the same deal that he ended up signing in Miami. You could certainly say that he wasn't turned off to Deng.

That's a valid perspective. There is a "house cleaning" or coup feel to all of this (the Levenson email and the conference call). I've been hearing about acrimony regarding that ownership group on and off since they started.

Trust me when I tell you that it's a full on cluster ****, acrimony is putting it lightly. Something to be expected when you have 9 different owners from 3 different regions. 1 owner from Boston sued the rest back during the original Joe Johnson deal because he didn't want to pay it. Years later they finally settled but during that time the Atlanta faction enjoyed being the public face of the ownership and pseudo GMs of what they thought was an equal joint venture. The DC faction however bought out the majority of the shares sold by the Boston faction and thus became the majority owners, pushed the Atlanta faction to the back and unilaterally hired Ferry. The Atlanta faction felt salty losing their importance until Ferry gave them the right ammo in the right post-Sterling environment and they've ran with it back to prominence.

Now take it from a Hawks fan, the whole ownership group are garbage and were wanted out for a long time but the most hated faction of it just burned down the franchise just so it could massage its ego.

[montestewart]

Well you also can't say that you heard the entire call neither but just the relevant snippet recorded and released by the same party that made this entire debacle public not as social justice warriors but rather as an opportunity to reassert their dominance within the ownership structure (a hint: it's the guys you hear high-fiving, laughing, and making the TMZ comment in the background). I say this because I've never been on a conference call that involved that many high powered individuals last less than 5 minutes. Ferry could have gone on talking about the merits of Deng for 30 minutes but the damage was already done, he already provided the smoking gun. Yes, his familiarity with Grant may have led his eyes to pick out that assessment but as far as his actions go, Deng was a top priority for the Hawks and the Hawks did offer him the same deal that he ended up signing in Miami. You could certainly say that he wasn't turned off to Deng.

That's a valid perspective. There is a "house cleaning" or coup feel to all of this (the Levenson email and the conference call). I've been hearing about acrimony regarding that ownership group on and off since they started.

Trust me when I tell you that it's a full on cluster ****, acrimony is putting it lightly. Something to be expected when you have 9 different owners from 3 different regions. 1 owner from Boston sued the rest back during the original Joe Johnson deal because he didn't want to pay it. Years later they finally settled but during that time the Atlanta faction enjoyed being the public face of the ownership and pseudo GMs of what they thought was an equal joint venture. The DC faction however bought out the majority of the shares sold by the Boston faction and thus became the majority owners, pushed the Atlanta faction to the back and unilaterally hired Ferry. The Atlanta faction felt salty losing their importance until Ferry gave them the right ammo in the right post-Sterling environment and they've ran with it back to prominence.

Now take it from a Hawks fan, the whole ownership group are garbage and were wanted out for a long time but the most hated faction of it just burned down the franchise just so it could massage its ego.

I'm a Wizards fan, and I watched my team go rudderless for years under its aging owner, who sometimes seemed to be running the franchise according to principles developed in the 1960s. I won't bore you with the litany, but trust me when I tell you that you have my sympathy.

[Devin 1L]

We hold players to this high level of standards, where we fine them for any misstep they do, if anything, FO personnel should be held at an even higher level of standard

NBA has had pretty low standards: multiple felons as refs (not even including Donaghy), Sterling's reign, rapists, DUIs, homophobic slurs, etc. If you have talent you just get fined and move on. Otherwise Hibbert, Kobe, Dwight, etc. would be gone for their homophobic slurs. 2 of the most winning teams also have politically incorrect statements from their owners or FO like Mark Cuban saying he'd walk across the street to avoid a black kid, Pop and Co. say Americans are lazy, etc.

Ferry deserves a second chance just as much as any of the above (minus Sterling and Billy Hunter)

Who are the others?

I had no idea any did, but a quick Google search lead me to Ken Mauer. I'd actually like to read more about Mauer's case than the little blurb on his Wikipedia page. The way that little blurb is worded suggests that he may have kind of gotten a raw deal and could have plea bargained out of it but didn't do so believing that he hadn't done anything wrong. I have no opinion on the matter -- just that I'm curious to read more about his case.

In any event, who are the others?

[Big Jaffa]

Again, people are missing the main point.

The man's biggest crime was being stupid enough to read a scouting report which he didn't even write, word for word instead of paraphrasing.

This is just a character assassination by some ex-Atlanta guys who have a grudge and a media that's looking to spread false outrage because it gets hits and is such a hot topic right now.

It's Ron Burgundy levels of absurd.

[montestewart]

Again, people are missing the main point.

The man's biggest crime was being stupid enough to read a scouting report which he didn't even write, word for word instead of paraphrasing.

This is just a character assassination by some ex-Atlanta guys who have a grudge and a media that's looking to spread false outrage because it gets hits and is such a hot topic right now.

It's Ron Burgundy levels of absurd.

Former colleague writes racist summary. GM nonchalantly reads it verbatim on business conference call with owners. Owners laugh and make jokes about it.

It almost does sound like a scene right out of Anchorman.

[Dr Pepper]

We hold players to this high level of standards, where we fine them for any misstep they do, if anything, FO personnel should be held at an even higher level of standard

NBA has had pretty low standards: multiple felons as refs (not even including Donaghy), Sterling's reign, rapists, DUIs, homophobic slurs, etc. If you have talent you just get fined and move on. Otherwise Hibbert, Kobe, Dwight, etc. would be gone for their homophobic slurs. 2 of the most winning teams also have politically incorrect statements from their owners or FO like Mark Cuban saying he'd walk across the street to avoid a black kid, Pop and Co. say Americans are lazy, etc.

Ferry deserves a second chance just as much as any of the above (minus Sterling and Billy Hunter)

Who are the others?

I had no idea any did, but a quick Google search lead me to Ken Mauer. I'd actually like to read more about Mauer's case than the little blurb on his Wikipedia page. The way that little blurb is worded suggests that he may have kind of gotten a raw deal and could have plea bargained out of it but didn't do so believing that he hadn't done anything wrong. I have no opinion on the matter -- just that I'm curious to read more about his case.

In any event, who are the others?

It was the same scandal that Mauer was guilty of; he and other refs took the hits so Stern wouldn't have to testify IIRC. Everyone's favorite ref, Joey Crawford, even resigned but I don't have a detailed link: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ex-referee- ... se-arrest/

Only Javie was acquitted according to his wiki but that was Jan 1999 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Javi ... sion_trial

[VC-INJURY]

This is no different than someone saying "Bargnani has too much Italian in him; he's lazy and prefers a slow pace of life."

This doesn't seem racist to you? Or am I missing the implicit green font in your post?

Generalization =/= racism.

The comments made about Deng and him having "African" in him were a generalization.

Italians love pasta
Asians love rice
Americans love burgers
etc are all generalizations; there is nothing racist about them.

Had the report said something along the lines of "A talented player, but it's a shame he's black" than that would racist.

I can guarantee you that if a report came out saying "Player is skilled but plays like a typical slow, un-athletic white guy...he's got too much Matt Harpring in him" no one would care.

[montestewart]

This is no different than someone saying "Bargnani has too much Italian in him; he's lazy and prefers a slow pace of life."

This doesn't seem racist to you? Or am I missing the implicit green font in your post?

Generalization =/= racism.

The comments made about Deng and him having "African" in him were a generalization.

Italians love pasta
Asians love rice
Americans love burgers
etc are all generalizations; there is nothing racist about them.

Had the report said something along the lines of "A talented player, but it's a shame he's black" than that would racist.

I can guarantee you that if a report came out saying "Player is skilled but plays like a typical slow, un-athletic white guy...he's got too much Matt Harpring in him" no one would care.

And it's the fact that no one would care that proves it is not racist.

Before you get all twisted up, I'm not stating that the uses of African/African are racist, but it is interesting to me the number of people in these threads who have insisted, in very authoritative terms, using a variety of geographic, cultural, and language-based arguments, that they absolutely cannot be connected to racism in any way.

"Probably not" or "I'm not inclined to believe" arguments sound a lot more persuasive than these stated certainties, which come off sounding more like denial to me. It is a basketball board, where many arguments are stated in absolutes, "greatest all-time, hands down," "absolute bust, I'm calling it now" and what not.

[Makaveli DaDon]

My question is if Danny is going to fight this than that means he had to be the one to leaked the report. The report must come from some one who is working for Cleveland now. It was done 6/16/2014. This is the same crew that went and got Lebron and co. Same management that called Lebron a coward when he left and posted a letter online til he agreed to sign. This is going to be very interesting. Also what's interesting is that Lou was planning on going to Miami even with Lebron. Maybe they might show the scouting report on Lebron.


Sent from my iPad using RealGM Forums

[Sixerscan]

This is no different than someone saying "Bargnani has too much Italian in him; he's lazy and prefers a slow pace of life."

This doesn't seem racist to you? Or am I missing the implicit green font in your post?

Generalization =/= racism.

The comments made about Deng and him having "African" in him were a generalization.

Italians love pasta
Asians love rice
Americans love burgers
etc are all generalizations; there is nothing racist about them.

Had the report said something along the lines of "A talented player, but it's a shame he's black" than that would racist.

I can guarantee you that if a report came out saying "Player is skilled but plays like a typical slow, un-athletic white guy...he's got too much Matt Harpring in him" no one would care.

Do you really not understand how saying that Italians like pasta is not the same thing as saying Africans are two faced and untrustworthy?

Did you even read the report? It had nothing to do with his abilities as a basketball player.

[mtron929]

This doesn't seem racist to you? Or am I missing the implicit green font in your post?

Generalization =/= racism.

The comments made about Deng and him having "African" in him were a generalization.

Italians love pasta
Asians love rice
Americans love burgers
etc are all generalizations; there is nothing racist about them.

Had the report said something along the lines of "A talented player, but it's a shame he's black" than that would racist.

I can guarantee you that if a report came out saying "Player is skilled but plays like a typical slow, un-athletic white guy...he's got too much Matt Harpring in him" no one would care.

And it's the fact that no one would care that proves it is not racist.

Before you get all twisted up, I'm not stating that the uses of African/African are racist, but it is interesting to me the number of people in these threads who have insisted, in very authoritative terms, using a variety of geographic, cultural, and language-based arguments, that they absolutely cannot be connected to racism in any way.

"Probably not" or "I'm not inclined to believe" arguments sound a lot more persuasive than these stated certainties, which come off sounding more like denial to me. It is a basketball board, where many arguments are stated in absolutes, "greatest all-time, hands down," "absolute bust, I'm calling it now" and what not.

Given that once you are labeled as a racist, you become a social pariah. So we should be very very careful about throwing out accusations. So we can all agree that what Danny Ferry said was unprofessional. However, unless there are additional information that is missing, we cannot and should not state that there is a racial element to any of this.

And you are only looking at one side. Do you also find it interesting that there are number of people in these threads who are stating that what Ferry did can absolutely be connected to racism in some way?

[mtron929]

I do find it interesting that in the current climate, when there is a debate about whether specific actions/speech are seen as racist or not, it is more socially acceptable to make the assumption that there is a racial element. That is, if you defend the side of something not being racist, then you run into the danger of being labeled a racist yourself. Whereas, if you defend the side of something being racist, the worst that can happen is that your were wrong but your heart was in the right place.

[nonjokegetter]

Are people still using the word racist for this? Jesus Christ.

[Sixerscan]

I agree that there's not necessarily any racial element to this (although it wouldn't surprise me), taking 1.1 billion people that span many different climates, locations, countries, cultures and, yes, races and applying a single negative stereotype to all of them isn't great either.

[shangrila]

This doesn't seem racist to you? Or am I missing the implicit green font in your post?

Generalization =/= racism.

The comments made about Deng and him having "African" in him were a generalization.

Italians love pasta
Asians love rice
Americans love burgers
etc are all generalizations; there is nothing racist about them.

Had the report said something along the lines of "A talented player, but it's a shame he's black" than that would racist.

I can guarantee you that if a report came out saying "Player is skilled but plays like a typical slow, un-athletic white guy...he's got too much Matt Harpring in him" no one would care.

Do you really not understand how saying that Italians like pasta is not the same thing as saying Africans are two faced and untrustworthy?

Did you even read the report? It had nothing to do with his abilities as a basketball player.

Yeah, there's a difference between racism and a stereotype

[Takingbaconback]

Italians liking pasta, asians liking rice, Americans liking burger are cultural generalizations. Those foods are part of their cultures and their identities. Being two faced and lying behind people's backs are not part of African or any culture and identity. That is just disrespectful and blatant ingrained hate.