Did Wade Deserve MVP In 08-09?

[Game6]

Why don't you give us a good argument why Lebron didn't deserve it?

I was just curious to hear peoples thoughts. I actually think Lebron did deserve it but Wade deserved it just as much as him. The Heat that year were d league level bad. Won 15 games the year before. Lebron also played with some bad players but they seemed like all stars compared to the scrubs Wade was surrounded with. Wade also had 3 50 point games. All that has to be taken into consideration.

[Craafty16]

So Lebron had -2 ppg, -1 apg, +3 rpg, same steals and blocks, higher PER and 3PT% and to top it all off ... 66 wins (43 for the Heat) wich was the best record in the league ahead of Lakers 65 and Celtics 62.

How is this an argument? Amazing season for Wade, unbelievable for Lebron

[Game6]

So Lebron had -2 ppg, -1 apg, +3 rpg, same steals and blocks, higher PER and 3PT% and to top it all off ... 66 wins (43 for the Heat) wich was the best record in the league ahead of Lakers 65 and Celtics 62.

How is this an argument? Amazing season for Wade, unbelievable for Lebron

Wade shot 278 3's. Lebron came no where close to that. Technically Lebron averaged 1.7 steals and 1.1 blocks while Wade averaged 2.2 steals and 1.3 blocks.

[snomeister]

LeBron wasn't "better" that year. His team was better and they won 23 more games than the Heat. Heat entered the season with a rookie coach, corpse of Jermaine O'Neal (who only played 27 games) as the 2nd best player and two rookies (one of them a 2nd round pick) on their starting lineup. The bench was possibly the worst in the whole league with Daequan Cook being the best player. D-Wade pretty much won 47 games and the 5th seed all by himself.

They won 43 games, and as mentioned, 43 wins isn't going to get you MVP no matter how good your stats are. Wilt didn't win MVP when he scored 50 a game because his team only won 49 games. OTOH, you could say the same thing about Lebron carrying his team to 66 as it was Mo Williams, Anderson Varejao, and a bunch of guys who aren't in the league anymore, including the corpses of Big Z, Big Ben, and Wally Szerbiak. And they had a terrible coach in Mike Brown who's offensive system was basically "Lebron calls the plays."

[DefenseWins]

Come on man just let that die out

I feel like this comes up every year somehow, move on

That was Wade's comeback year and he played unbelievably. But 43 wins (yes the team sucked) will not triumph over the first seed and 66 wins. We weren't even close in the division, being 3rd...

[Tim_Hardawayy]

LeBron wasn't "better" that year. His team was better and they won 23 more games than the Heat. Heat entered the season with a rookie coach, corpse of Jermaine O'Neal (who only played 27 games) as the 2nd best player and two rookies (one of them a 2nd round pick) on their starting lineup. The bench was possibly the worst in the whole league with Daequan Cook being the best player. D-Wade pretty much won 47 games and the 5th seed all by himself.

The Heat entered that year with Shawn Marion. He got traded for JO at the deadline to clear room for 2010 (since Marcus Banks was packaged with Marion, who would be owed 4.5 million that year).

Also yes, Toronto, we won the JO trade.

[Makaveli DaDon]

Lebron got it because of wins period, Wade had the better season. The same way Shaq got robbed by Steve Nash and Lebron by Derek rose, it happened to Wade. People need to stop saying that those Cavs team sucked. Those teams could have won, Lebron wasn't a winner at the time. Nothing is more evident than the 2011 finals. There is no reason we lost to Dallas other than Lebron disappearing like he did in Cleveland. Even these finals how do you not keep Boris Diaz in check? Lebron needs help.


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[SlowPaced]

LeBron wasn't "better" that year. His team was better and they won 23 more games than the Heat. Heat entered the season with a rookie coach, corpse of Jermaine O'Neal (who only played 27 games) as the 2nd best player and two rookies (one of them a 2nd round pick) on their starting lineup. The bench was possibly the worst in the whole league with Daequan Cook being the best player. D-Wade pretty much won 47 games and the 5th seed all by himself.

They won 43 games, and as mentioned, 43 wins isn't going to get you MVP no matter how good your stats are. Wilt didn't win MVP when he scored 50 a game because his team only won 49 games. OTOH, you could say the same thing about Lebron carrying his team to 66 as it was Mo Williams, Anderson Varejao, and a bunch of guys who aren't in the league anymore, including the corpses of Big Z, Big Ben, and Wally Szerbiak. And they had a terrible coach in Mike Brown who's offensive system was basically "Lebron calls the plays."

I never argued with that. LeBron deserved his MVP. I'm just saying that I feel like D-Wade was better that year individually. In my initial reply to this thread I said "If we managed to land a Top 3 seed, he'd be the MVP". Not "D-Wade should've won it".

[dautjazz]

LeBron wasn't "better" that year. His team was better and they won 23 more games than the Heat. Heat entered the season with a rookie coach, corpse of Jermaine O'Neal (who only played 27 games) as the 2nd best player and two rookies (one of them a 2nd round pick) on their starting lineup. The bench was possibly the worst in the whole league with Daequan Cook being the best player. D-Wade pretty much won 47 games and the 5th seed all by himself.

By all objective measures (PER,WS,+/-,RAPM) Lebron was better than Wade.

Yup, and it's easier to stat pad on a bad team. That was arguably Lebron's best season, so it's just hard to swallow that Wade was better. Now to be Wade might of been the best player of 2006. That case makes more sense, especially with his final's performance.

[Sign5]

Not by MVP standards, you have to be the best player on the best team. If you switch Wade with LeBron then he'd win MVP. LeBron had a much better team/record and marginally lower stats so he won.

Shaq was a bigger rob.

[toodles23]

Lebron had slightly better stats (every advanced metric favors him,) on an enormously superior team. I don't see the argument for Wade.

Wade shot 278 3's. Lebron came no where close to that. Technically Lebron averaged 1.7 steals and 1.1 blocks while Wade averaged 2.2 steals and 1.3 blocks.

Lebron made 132 threes in '09, Wade made 88.

[Zeitgeister]

Wade was amazing that year, but Lebron was a bit better and leading a better team. If Wade was quite a bit better and his team was a bit more competitive then there would be a better argument but Lebron is the rightful winner.

Lebron
31.7 PER, .591 TS%, 20.3 Win Shares, 122 Offensive Rating, 99 Defensive Rating, 11.3 RAPM

Wade
30.4 PER, .574 TS%, 14.7 Win Shares, 115 Offensive Rating, 105 Defensive Rating, 8.4 RAPM

[Beffiosa]

LeBron wasn't "better" that year. His team was better and they won 23 more games than the Heat. Heat entered the season with a rookie coach, corpse of Jermaine O'Neal (who only played 27 games) as the 2nd best player and two rookies (one of them a 2nd round pick) on their starting lineup. The bench was possibly the worst in the whole league with Daequan Cook being the best player. D-Wade pretty much won 47 games and the 5th seed all by himself.

By all objective measures (PER,WS,+/-,RAPM) Lebron was better than Wade.

Yup, and it's easier to stat pad on a bad team. That was arguably Lebron's best season, so it's just hard to swallow that Wade was better. Now to be Wade might of been the best player of 2006. That case makes more sense, especially with his final's performance.

That was not close to being his best season. The following year he averaged 29.7 points, 8.6 assist, 7.3 rebounds on just over 50% shooting. I think the year before was better as well when he averaged 30 points, 7.9 rebounds, 7.2 assist.

I was rooting for Wade that year but its tough to not give it lebron with similar stats to Wade and just a far superior record

[WOX_69]

Inb4homer:

I truly believe that Kobe should have gotten the MVP for the 08-09 season. Leading the Lakers to second best record in the league (Best in the Western Conference) of 65-17, he did so boasting a statline of 26.8 PPG, 4.9 APG, 5.2 RPG, 1.5 SPG and .5 BPG.

Now that alone does tell the story. It's how he performed in big moments throughout the year. Christmas Day game against the Celtics? Came up big in a statement game.

Game against Lebron and the Cavs at home? Puts up twelve assists in a victory.

First game after Bynum injuries his knee and was out for three months? Puts up 61 in the Garden against the Knicks.

First game in the Boston Garden since the blowout in the 2008 Finals Game 6? Comes through in the clutch with huge baskets including back to back to back threes over Paul Pierce.

Very next game goes into Cleveland who at this point is undefeated at home. Sick as dog. Shoots a beautiful turnaround rainbow fadeaway over Lebron late in fourth quarter. This caps off a six game road trip. The Lakers won all six.

This is why I think Kobe should've won MVP. In the big game situations along with the Laker's record, Kobe was unmatched that season.

[dautjazz]

By all objective measures (PER,WS,+/-,RAPM) Lebron was better than Wade.

Yup, and it's easier to stat pad on a bad team. That was arguably Lebron's best season, so it's just hard to swallow that Wade was better. Now to be Wade might of been the best player of 2006. That case makes more sense, especially with his final's performance.

That was not close to being his best season. The following year he averaged 29.7 points, 8.6 assist, 7.3 rebounds on just over 50% shooting. I think the year before was better as well when he averaged 30 points, 7.9 rebounds, 7.2 assist.

I was rooting for Wade that year but its tough to not give it lebron with similar stats to Wade and just a far superior record

Lebron played reduced minutes in 2008-09, if not his stats would look much better.

[Dupp]

Lebron was the better player on a better team. Amazing season by wade though.

[toodles23]

That was not close to being his best season. The following year he averaged 29.7 points, 8.6 assist, 7.3 rebounds on just over 50% shooting. I think the year before was better as well when he averaged 30 points, 7.9 rebounds, 7.2 assist.

I was rooting for Wade that year but its tough to not give it lebron with similar stats to Wade and just a far superior record

If you think Lebron in '08 was in the same tier as '09, you need to change the way you evaluate players. Lebron made a mega-leap in '09, there's a reason why all of his advanced numbers jumped so dramatically that year.

Inb4homer:

I truly believe that Kobe should have gotten the MVP for the 08-09 season.

Lol.

[Beffiosa]

Inb4homer:

I truly believe that Kobe should have gotten the MVP for the 08-09 season. Leading the Lakers to second best record in the league (Best in the Western Conference) of 65-17, he did so boasting a statline of 26.8 PPG, 4.9 APG, 5.2 RPG, 1.5 SPG and .5 BPG.

Now that alone does tell the story. It's how he performed in big moments throughout the year. Christmas Day game against the Celtics? Came up big in a statement game.

Game against Lebron and the Cavs at home? Puts up twelve assists in a victory.

First game after Bynum injuries his knee and was out for three months? Puts up 61 in the Garden against the Knicks.

First game in the Boston Garden since the blowout in the 2008 Finals Game 6? Comes through in the clutch with huge baskets including back to back to back threes over Paul Pierce.

Very next game goes into Cleveland who at this point is undefeated at home. Sick as dog. Shoots a beautiful turnaround rainbow fadeaway over Lebron late in fourth quarter. This caps off a six game road trip. The Lakers won all six.

This is why I think Kobe should've won MVP. In the big game situations along with the Laker's record, Kobe was unmatched that season.

Kobe was great that year, but I think a lot of people would have had a problem with giving Kobe the MVP over a guy with superior stats in every major category and a better record with a supporting casts who's second best player was Mo Williams. Mo Williams was not even better than Ariza

[Beffiosa]

That was not close to being his best season. The following year he averaged 29.7 points, 8.6 assist, 7.3 rebounds on just over 50% shooting. I think the year before was better as well when he averaged 30 points, 7.9 rebounds, 7.2 assist.

I was rooting for Wade that year but its tough to not give it lebron with similar stats to Wade and just a far superior record

If you think Lebron in '08 was in the same tier as '09, you need to change the way you evaluate players. Lebron made a mega-leap in '09, there's a reason why all of his advanced numbers jumped so dramatically that year.

Inb4homer:

I truly believe that Kobe should have gotten the MVP for the 08-09 season.

Lol.

Did you understood my post? Or am I not understanding yours? I am saying that 08 was not Lebron's best season and they following year which was 09 was better

[MoneyTalks41890]

I don't get why this is a discussion? Much better advanced stats (higher TS, 5 more WS, higher PER, etc.) and a team that won 66 games. You can't have a mediocre team and win the MVP.