The Antawn Jamison syndrome : Kevin Love

[EscapoTHB]

They should have kept wiggins and had lebron be the 4 like in miami. Cheaper, and they'd be better defensively. They seem to have a lot of extraneous pieces right now. I wonder if picks plus bennett and waiters could have landed them Hibbert?

[contract]

They should have kept wiggins and had lebron be the 4 like in miami. Cheaper, and they'd be better defensively. They seem to have a lot of extraneous pieces right now. I wonder if picks plus bennett and waiters could have landed them Hibbert?

Where the heck did people get the idea that Lebron was playing PF in Miami???

[guest81]

Let's see, comparing best seasons, per 36 minutes stats:
Love: 26 points, 12 rebounds, 4 assists
Jamison: 18 points, 8 rebounds, 1 assist

LOL

But will 26-year-old Love be able to do better than 33-year-old Jamison?

33-year-old Jamison (playing with LeBron):
Regular season (25 games) - 15.8ppg 7.7rpg 1.1spg 0.5bpg .485fg .342treys
Playoffs (11 games) - 15.3ppg 7.4rpg 1.0bpg 0.6spg .467fg .256treys

Yes, yes he will. Are we done here? Can we close this up?

[BoutPractice]

Overreaction based on small sample size in the very particular context of a newly put together team with championship aspirations.

It will be interesting to see what people say when Love has that huge game that saves Cleveland in the Conference Finals.

[Yoshun]

Typical RealGM thread a few weeks into the season. At the end of the season when Love is putting up 20/10 and back up to his career average efficiency numbers, most of the people criticizing him now will be no where to be found.

It's amazing how people just throw out 4-5 seasons in favor of 10 games when those 10 games validate their point of view.

[HoraryAstrology]

I think Bosh was right. It looks like he hit the nail right on the head

Yeah I ignorantly thought of Bosh as jealous at first and now repent of my sin. Should've listened to him as he had 4 years with LJ. I realize the Heat were 9-8 in 2011 to start and didn't win a title until year 2 but Love sucks so badly at defense that even if he stays, they might not even make the finals.

[TONY_YAYO]

After 6 years not playing playoffs, finally Love plays for a ''good'' team . And he is proving that he is not better than Antawn Jamison.

Jamison was great, with super stats in depleted Warriors teams, but then his stats never translated to good team performances.

To be honest, I think Jamison was a way better player than Love, his tenure in Washington was impressive.

And yes I know that Love can give you a lot of empty rebound, the kind of rebounds that if you dont get someone else on your team does.

this is where you lost this debate

[tonyreyes123]

Lol I really want this team to implode like the 2013 Lakers.

[JimmyTD3]

I watched Tawn in his prime when he put up back to back 50 pt games for us..

I don't think he is as good as Love.

But he was the master of the ugly shot

[streetp0et]

He's making a transition. Cut the guy some slack.



Holy hell what a straw man. Shaq WAS worse than Jamison and Love when he played in Cleveland. He was WAY past his prime.

I see why they call you SlowPaced

Hey look another one. I knew he was being sarcastic, I attacked the motivation behind his sarcasm. Stats are not a clear cut way of judging players' qualities but Shaq indeed was worse than both Jamison and Love. The guy came up with the sarcasm that suggested Shaq was actually better despite having worse stats, which he was not. Joke's on you.

His sarcasm was pointing out you can't compare stats from players past their prime with players in their peak. He was not at all trying to say Shaq was better as a Cavaliers. Just take the L.

[EscapoTHB]

They should have kept wiggins and had lebron be the 4 like in miami. Cheaper, and they'd be better defensively. They seem to have a lot of extraneous pieces right now. I wonder if picks plus bennett and waiters could have landed them Hibbert?

Where the heck did people get the idea that Lebron was playing PF in Miami???

Sorry. The post playing 3 next to another 3 who interchanges defensive duties with Lebron throughout the game.

Unless you think Battier was a true PF.

[EscapoTHB]

Oh yeah, and I do think Love is better than Jamison--but the effect on Jamison, Bosh, and Love's game is fundementally the same. And it's not because they aren't good or even great players. It's that it's really hard to be a power forward next to Lebron, because the spots on the floor Lebron likes to play offensively, are mixed between Small and power forward positions. So there's no space for these guys to work, and they don't get the touches to get a rhythm. I'm not even sure the Cavs would be a better team if Love was the number 2 guy for them instead of Irving. It requires Lebron to sacrifice a lot more for Love to succeed than Irving.

[Sgt P]

I think Bosh was right. It looks like he hit the nail right on the head

A lot of basketball fans owe Bosh an apology.

except bosh is shooting like 41% and turning it over 2.3 times a game while so it looks like playing with lebron was making it easier for him. He's only scoring 1 more points a game more than when he played with Lebron his first year. So Bosh blamed it on lebron but he's actually simply declined as a player, since we're judging players off 10 games in this thread.

+10000000000000000000000000000000000000

Exactly, all we need is about ten games to determine suckiness. But for balance after he is retired we will like him.

[miltk]

10 games into the season.

There is only one ball

They have LeBron. He is going to get 18 or more shots a game.

Give it time. You can tell much at all from that small sample size so early in the season.

I don't think anyone thought he would be shooting as much as his did in MIN.

of course not, but i don't think anyone expected blatt to camp love out at the 3 and take away his rebounding/outlets either. love made minnie #6 ranked in boards

Where did you think he would he. Sharing the post with Anderson Varejao. Taking more shots then LeBron ? More then Kyrie ?

.

i didn't expect love to score more. i expected him to maintain his rebounding. that's my whole point about blatt putting him at the arc. blatt is taking love away from doing what he does best. love was boarding even with pek. if irving and lebron are going to hog the ball 85% of the time, at least put love in a position to get boards and start fast breaks.

and btw, blatt for that matter is screwing up the whole team. the cavs last year was #11 in rebounding and this year they're #29....i don't know what blatt is doing, but rebounding is part of defense too.

[contract]

They should have kept wiggins and had lebron be the 4 like in miami. Cheaper, and they'd be better defensively. They seem to have a lot of extraneous pieces right now. I wonder if picks plus bennett and waiters could have landed them Hibbert?

Where the heck did people get the idea that Lebron was playing PF in Miami???

Sorry. The post playing 3 next to another 3 who interchanges defensive duties with Lebron throughout the game.

Unless you think Battier was a true PF.

Post playing???

[eagereyez]

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/cleve ... evin-love/

[E-Balla]

After 6 years not playing playoffs, finally Love plays for a ''good'' team . And he is proving that he is not better than Antawn Jamison.

Jamison was great, with super stats in depleted Warriors teams, but then his stats never translated to good team performances.

To be honest, I think Jamison was a way better player than Love, his tenure in Washington was impressive.

And yes I know that Love can give you a lot of empty rebound, the kind of rebounds that if you dont get someone else on your team does.

Jamison's top 3 PER: 21.2 - 20.6 - 20.3
Love's top 3 PER: 26.9 - 25.4 - 24.3

Advantage: Love

Jamison's top 3 WS: 9.2 - 9.0 - 8.5
Love's top 3 WS: 14.3 - 11.4 - 10.0

Advantage: Love

Jamison's top 3 VORP: 2.0 - 1.9 - 1.9
Love's top 3 VORP: 7.0 - 4.1 - 3.5

Advantage: Love

You may not like PER, WS or VORP, whatever - but these overall ratings were developed independently and they all say the same thing. So I think you're way off base if you think Antawn Jamison was anywhere near Kevin Love's level.

They all use the exact same boxscore stats. I'm not saying he isn't better because he clearly is but independently created numbers all created with the same variables will usually end up showing the same trend.

[JonFromVA]

and btw, blatt for that matter is screwing up the whole team. the cavs last year was #11 in rebounding and this year they're #29....i don't know what blatt is doing, but rebounding is part of defense too.

Kevin is down just 2 rebounds per game from last year. Hardly anything to draw conclusions about over just 10 games, nor completely unexpected now that he's playing next to the likes of Varejao, Thompson and James.

Also if the Cavs had played 13 games like some other teams, their projected rebound total would be 6th best.

They should be better, and they'll need to stop fighting each other for boards; but you can also see how opposing teams have made it a priority to keep the Cavs off the boards. A lot of things come with the reputation the Cavs have gained yet haven't earned.

Kevin put up 14 & 7 on 3 of 14 shooting in a mid-season 18pt loss to the Spurs last year. He knows what they bring when they bring it.

[Hisa]

of course not, but i don't think anyone expected blatt to camp love out at the 3 and take away his rebounding/outlets either. love made minnie #6 ranked in boards

Where did you think he would he. Sharing the post with Anderson Varejao. Taking more shots then LeBron ? More then Kyrie ?

.

i didn't expect love to score more. i expected him to maintain his rebounding. that's my whole point about blatt putting him at the arc. blatt is taking love away from doing what he does best. love was boarding even with pek. if irving and lebron are going to hog the ball 85% of the time, at least put love in a position to get boards and start fast breaks.

and btw, blatt for that matter is screwing up the whole team. the cavs last year was #11 in rebounding and this year they're #29....i don't know what blatt is doing, but rebounding is part of defense too.

Last year he was playing a lot at the perimeter-elbow area as well, he got the vast majority of his rebounds on defense and he could grab them in Cleveland as well, he is just losing a lot of rebounding battles, during his tenure in minny he was taking away from the team defense to grab boards(in case opponents miss layups) and everybody let him get the rebound if its between two teammates, but thats not the case in cleveland.. if you would argue about his scoring numbers your point would be valid, but the rebounding is on him

[miltk]

Where did you think he would he. Sharing the post with Anderson Varejao. Taking more shots then LeBron ? More then Kyrie ?

.

i didn't expect love to score more. i expected him to maintain his rebounding. that's my whole point about blatt putting him at the arc. blatt is taking love away from doing what he does best. love was boarding even with pek. if irving and lebron are going to hog the ball 85% of the time, at least put love in a position to get boards and start fast breaks.

and btw, blatt for that matter is screwing up the whole team. the cavs last year was #11 in rebounding and this year they're #29....i don't know what blatt is doing, but rebounding is part of defense too.

Last year he was playing a lot at the perimeter-elbow area as well, he got the vast majority of his rebounds on defense and he could grab them in Cleveland as well, he is just losing a lot of rebounding battles, during his tenure in minny he was taking away from the team defense to grab boards(in case opponents miss layups) and everybody let him get the rebound if its between two teammates, but thats not the case in cleveland.. if you would argue about his scoring numbers your point would be valid, but the rebounding is on him

then i would ask this question...who would you rather see get the defensive rebounds, love or verajao, and which is better for the cavs