Andre Roberson RPM >> Derozan, Iguodala, Kobe, Wade etc

[greenandgold]

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/2

That's just among the shooting guards. Also ranks higher than Derrick Rose, Josh Smith, Joe Johnson, Greg Monroe, Dwight Howard and a lot of other prominent players at other positions.

[ChokeFasncists]

Who?

[ValHoffa]

garrett temple has a higher rpm than all of them… so id take this with a grain of sand...

[JDR720]

which is why i dont take most advanced stats seriously

[Johnny Firpo]

which is why i dont take most advanced stats seriously

Why? Take a look at the stat, adjust for minutes, and voila, the stat will show you that Thompson, Harden and Butler are in the top 3, which perfectly matches the eye test and the other advanced stats as well. Then you would have players like Korver, Courtney Lee, Matthews and Monta Ellis, all playing more than 30 minutes, and all of them are obviously in the top 10. There is nothing wrong with that stat, and it also shows that Roberson is quite a defender, which again, matches the eye test if I'm not mistaken (I don't watch a whole lot of OKC).

[ChokeFasncists]

Tony Parker ranks no.66 among PGs, go figure

[MoneyTalks41890]

which is why i dont take most advanced stats seriously

Why? Take a look at the stat, adjust for minutes, and voila, the stat will show you that Thompson, Harden and Butler are in the top 3, which perfectly matches the eye test and the other advanced stats as well. Then you would have players like Korver, Courtney Lee, Matthews and Monta Ellis, all playing more than 30 minutes, and all of them are obviously in the top 10. There is nothing wrong with that stat, and it also shows that Roberson is quite a defender, which again, matches the eye test if I'm not mistaken (I don't watch a whole lot of OKC).

So, I agree with everything you said, and Roberson is a very good defender, but right below him is Lamb, who is improving but probably not yet a very good defender, and directly below him on the list is Morrow. Who is an awful defender. Downright terrible. Couldn't defend his way out of a cracker jack box. So I can see some of the criticism of this particular stat.

And Morrow is playing 27 mpg.

[Nolan]

Well rebounding and defense were the reason he got drafted where he did so I guess i'm not surprised that he's one of the top rebounding guards. Not sure what the point of this thread really is though...

[GREENE1148]

Well rebounding and defense were the reason he got drafted where he did so I guess i'm not surprised that he's one of the top rebounding guards. Not sure what the point of this thread really is though...

"RPM" = Real Plus-Minus...

Would take it with a giant pinch of salt, because he's at risk of being bad enough offensively that he can't stay on the floor... But the kid is special defensively, he's 2nd in the league (200 mins min.) in opponents eFG% on shot contests (to Bogut)... and the Thunder have been 10.9 points better defensively with him on the floor.

[greenandgold]

RPM is excellent at catching defensive contributions beyond the overrated blocks/steals categories. It accounts for both strength of teammates while the player is on the floor, and the strength of the opponents.

In time Roberson's going to become recognized as one of the premier perimeter defenders in the league along with Draymond Green, Kawhi Leonard, Tony Allen and Danny Green (all highly rated defensively by RPM).

Tony Allen is Roberson's current ceiling because both stink offensively.

[KD35Brah]

He is also ranked 5th in the league in BBall reference's DBPM.

[greenandgold]

He is also ranked 5th in the league in BBall reference's DBPM.

Exactly. Once you put in a minute filter (200 minutes played this season required) these are the Basketball Reference DBPM leaders:

1) Bogut
2) Duncan
3) DeAndre Jordan
4) Tony Allen
5) Kosta Koufos
6) Roberson
7) Noah
8) Hibbert
9) Batum
10) Dalembert
11) Marc Gasol
12) Draymond Green

Defensive centers dominate this statistic. When a perimeter player makes this list that means he's blowing the other team's offense up.

[KayDee35]

People who tout or dismiss advanced stats completely don't understand them. Advanced stats are an awesome third metric when taken in context and used in conjunction with the other two measures - the eye-test and the box score.

[ManualRam]

Tony Allen is Roberson's current ceiling because both stink offensively.

at least allen can dribble the ball and slash. roberson can't do anything offensively.

[AttitudeAjusta]

Everything is objective except for raw stats.

It's hard to argue a point, rebound, assist, steal or block. Even then, they don't tell the whole story.

Who decides how much impact a player has on his team? What if his job is to be scrappy and defensive with garbage minutes? Who and how decides how important a player really is compared to the rest of the team?

Literally way too many factors to take adv stats as serious as everyone else

[greenandgold]

Tony Allen is Roberson's current ceiling because both stink offensively.

at least allen can dribble the ball and slash. roberson can't do anything offensively.

Not true. Roberson's a terrific slasher and finisher at the rim, shooting an excellent 67% from 2-point range (among the league leaders). His three point shooting is hot garbage but that will be eliminated from his game.

Edit: you can watch every Roberson offensive possession on stats.nba.com

I count him scoring 9 out of his 11 slashes to the hoop, with a couple of And-1's. He's got one very effective move, sweep the ball through, two dribbles and a quick finish. Also a great target for alley-oops because of the terrific size and agility. Don't let the awful three-point shooting fool you, he's going to be a solid offensive player.

[Kabookalu]

So he's basically Thabo Sefolosha without a jumper.

[ManualRam]

Tony Allen is Roberson's current ceiling because both stink offensively.

at least allen can dribble the ball and slash. roberson can't do anything offensively.

Not true. Roberson's a terrific slasher and finisher at the rim, shooting an excellent 67% from 2-point range (among the league leaders). His three point shooting is hot garbage but that will be eliminated from his game.

Edit: you can watch every Roberson offensive possession on stats.nba.com

I count him scoring 9 out of his 11 slashes to the hoop, with a couple of And-1's. He's got one very effective move, sweep the ball through, two dribbles and a quick finish. Also a great target for alley-oops because of the terrific size and agility. Don't let the awful three-point shooting fool you, he's going to be a solid offensive player.

if he puts the ball on the deck, not in a straight line for more than 2 dribbles he's losing it or giving it up. he has no change of direction, no change of speed, no off-hand. you can't involve him in PnR as a handler. he's not generating momentum to the hoop by himself nor is he getting defenders off balance. his ball skills absolutely suck. i can sum up his movements with the ball in his hands in 1 word: stiff.

solid offensive player eventually? i highly doubt that.

[greenandgold]

Outside of the three point shooting Roberson's been efficient offensively. I know you were shocked that he's shooting 67% from 2-point range, among the league leaders. It's okay, we can't all know everything, especially about the younger role players in the league.

The eye test and the stats discredit most of what you have to say. He's beaten his man numerous times with a quick dribble drive move that puts his defender off balance. And his assist to turnover ratio is already better than Tony Allen's.

Also the ball skills don't really matter for his role. KD' and WB are going to have the ball in their hands. Roberson just has to catch the alley-oop or snag the offensive rebound or slash quickly to the rim when there's an opening. The elements of a solid offensive game are already there.

[KD35Brah]

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