John Wall legitimate candidate for MVP

[Optms]

Best point guard in the East.

Top 5 overall.

Stephen Curry
Chris Paul
Russel Westbrook
Mike Conley
John Wall

[BackOnDaBlock]

He's a great player, but no PG will ever be anywhere near MVP with a 52.6 TS% and 3.9 TO's per 36 mins. That's just too inefficient.

2002 Jason Kidd. 2002-2003 Stats: 80 GP, 37.4 MPG, 18.7 PPG, 6.3 RPG, 8.9 APG, 2.2 SPG, 0.3 BPG, 41.4% FG%, 34.1 3P%, 84.1 FT%
2002-2003 Advanced: 52.6% TS%, 46.5% eFG%, 22.2 PER, 106 ORtg, 96 DRtg, 11.3 WS
That year he was 2nd to Duncan and a lot of people felt he got robbed. I could see why you're concerned though, Wall just turned 24 and Lowry is almost 30 and Wall has played a better season thus far. You may have to get used to him.

Sent from my SM-G900T using RealGM Forums mobile app

lowry has been better

[amcfad27]

Still doesn't have the name cred. Make it deeper in the playoffs first.

[Hendrix]

I mean this with all due respect, but I wonder how many Wizards games you've seen this year. Wall does a lot of things that don't appear in advanced stats. The guy gets a lot of hockey assists, plays excellent man to man D, and collapses the opposing teams defense freeing up soooo much room for his teammates. The guy has made a 35 year old RASUAL FREAKIN' BUTLER a 6MOY candidate.

I've seen probably a half dozen Wiz games in totality. Not always entire games, but if the game looks close, and it's one of the more interesting games of the night I'll tune in for the 4th quarter.

I've seen Wiz fans saying how Wall turned Rasual Butler into a player. It's 20 games. Players get hot shooting the ball sometimes for 20 games. .534% from 3 is not sustainable it's going to go down. You can't give Wall all the credit for Butler shooting that high from 3. I mean, Temple's shooting .498ts% on the season, Beal .540ts%, and Pierce is shooting worse than last year with D-Will. If Wall has some kind of special ability to get the most out of his team mates, why aren't those guys shooting ridiculous numbers like Butler, and why is the Wiz offense about league average on the whole (106.5 ortg, league average is 106 ortg) ?

Yes you can point to him doing some things that don't show up in the box scores, but the same can be said for a ton of other players too. It's not like Wall is the only player in the league that can run an offense/make the hockey assist, or play defense.

Srsly, Wall's had a good year, and there's nothing wrong with just leaving it at that. We don't need to be going to extremes and throwing his name in the MvP discussion when he clearly doesn't belong in it. I mean, he's not even ranked on NBA.com's top 10 MVP ladder.

[Illmatic12]

Yes you can point to him doing some things that don't show up in the box scores, but the same can be said for a ton of other players too. It's not like Wall is the only player in the league that can run an offense/make the hockey assist, or play defense.

Srsly, Wall's had a good year, and there's nothing wrong with just leaving it at that. We don't need to be going to extremes and throwing his name in the MvP discussion when he clearly doesn't belong in it. I mean, he's not even ranked on NBA.com's top 10 MVP ladder.

Wall isn't the only player in the league that can do those things, but he's one of the few (and by few, I mean can count on one hand) players in the NBA that combines all those attributes at such a high level. And he's doing this at age 24.

Keep a close watch on that MVP ladder over the next few weeks.. Wall just won EC POTW, and will probably be POTM for the conference. I can understand your reluctance in wanting to admit Wall's excellence, he looks like he has many years of point guard domination ahead of him. If I was a fan of another Eastern Conference team I wouldn't like it one bit.

[Hendrix]

Wall isn't the only player in the league that can do those things, but he's one of the few (and by few, I mean can count on one hand) players in the NBA that combines all those attributes at such a high level. And he's doing this at age 24.

Keep a close watch on that MVP ladder over the next few weeks.. Wall just won EC POTW, and will probably be POTM for the conference. I can understand your reluctance in wanting to admit Wall's excellence, he looks like he has many years of point guard domination ahead of him. If I was a fan of another Eastern Conference team I wouldn't like it one bit.

It really has nothing to do with that. It has to do with him putting up non-MVP stats. 106 ORTG, 21.1 PER, .524ts%, 3.9tov's, .155 ws/48, are just straight up not in the ball park of dominance, or excellence, or MVP discussion.

Srsly, what has he done that a ton of other PG's in the league aren't doing this year? Paul, Curry, Conley, Irving, Lowry, Teague, and Lillard have all put up way better offensive numbers, have all lead their team to better ORTG's/ top 10 offense (while Wall's lead his team to a league average offense). For the most part have similar team records or better. Then there's Westbrook too, who may not have the team ORTG/ win record, but has been injured. Plus a lot of those guys are great defenders for their position too. That is just PG, not even including other positions. I'm not saying he's been worse than all those guys, but he's been worse than quite a few of them, and hasn't really stood out as a tier above the rest of them this season.

[barelyawake]

Wall isn't the only player in the league that can do those things, but he's one of the few (and by few, I mean can count on one hand) players in the NBA that combines all those attributes at such a high level. And he's doing this at age 24.

Keep a close watch on that MVP ladder over the next few weeks.. Wall just won EC POTW, and will probably be POTM for the conference. I can understand your reluctance in wanting to admit Wall's excellence, he looks like he has many years of point guard domination ahead of him. If I was a fan of another Eastern Conference team I wouldn't like it one bit.

It really has nothing to do with that. It has to do with him putting up non-MVP stats. 106 ORTG, 21.1 PER, .524ts%, 3.9tov's, .155 ws/48, are just straight up not in the ball park of dominance, or excellence, or MVP discussion.

Srsly, what has he done that a ton of other PG's in the league aren't doing this year? Paul, Curry, Conley, Irving, Lowry, Teague, and Lillard have all put up way better offensive numbers, have all lead their team to better ORTG's/ top 10 offense (while Wall's lead his team to a league average offense). For the most part have similar team records or better. Then there's Westbrook too, who may not have the team ORTG/ win record, but has been injured. Plus a lot of those guys are great defenders for their position too. That is just PG, not even including other positions. I'm not saying he's been worse than all those guys, but he's been worse than quite a few of them, and hasn't really stood out as a tier above the rest of them this season.

Dude, you've been a hater of Wall from the get. And there have been many of you. But, again, you are missing that he doesn't have another Allstar on his team. Put Durant on the Wiz, and Wall's assist stats would be unworldly. He's doing this with Rasual Butler and Gortat as his main weapons. Relax. Admit you are wrong and give the man his due. PS he's also developed into the best point guard defender (and also one of the best defenders period) in the league. And he's 24. With one season injured. And attempting to revitalize a decades-old, horrendous franchise by himself.

[ReKon]

If the Wizards end up with the best record in the East he will be a legitimate candidate.Plus the Wizards schedule hasn t been tough enough for me to name him an MVP candidate.The only notable wins the Wizards achieved so far were against the Cavs and the Clips.Their schedule is pretty brutal from late December all the way trough January.We can talk about Wall s chances being the MVP after that stretch but he s definitelly an All-Star and he should be 1st All-Defensive Team and probably 3rd All-NBA team when all is said and done

[primecougar]

Lol is he even a top 5 point guard? let alone a top 5 mvp candidate.

curry,westbrook, paul, lowry are all better than him. then you have lilard and irving. i mean i dont have to mention what steph curry is doing. everyones aware because of their winning streak. cp3 is putting up great numbers but i think he declined a bit.

russel westbrook is literally averaging 26.4/5.8/6.8 on 49.5/35.6/82.5 with a per of 33 and a ts of 60. hes doing this all in under 3omins coming off an injury. that makes walls number look average. thats better than a prime tmac/kobe statline. obviosuly its been 10 games but westbrooks been playing like an animal.

to the wizards fan that keeps saying raps are scared of john wall and that hes better than lowry. raps contain wall so easily, both ross and lowry have his number. i mean the last game the played, lowry had a triple double while wall was held under 10 points and raps blew you out.

oh yeah all the eastern conference teams are scared of a below average scorer that cant shoot and averages close to 4 turnovers per game. the point guards that i would be scared from the east are a healthy drose and irving in his prime, def not john wall.

[Illmatic12]

Wall isn't the only player in the league that can do those things, but he's one of the few (and by few, I mean can count on one hand) players in the NBA that combines all those attributes at such a high level. And he's doing this at age 24.

Keep a close watch on that MVP ladder over the next few weeks.. Wall just won EC POTW, and will probably be POTM for the conference. I can understand your reluctance in wanting to admit Wall's excellence, he looks like he has many years of point guard domination ahead of him. If I was a fan of another Eastern Conference team I wouldn't like it one bit.

It really has nothing to do with that. It has to do with him putting up non-MVP stats. 106 ORTG, 21.1 PER, .524ts%, 3.9tov's, .155 ws/48, are just straight up not in the ball park of dominance, or excellence, or MVP discussion.

Srsly, what has he done that a ton of other PG's in the league aren't doing this year? Paul, Curry, Conley, Irving, Lowry, Teague, and Lillard have all put up way better offensive numbers, have all lead their team to better ORTG's/ top 10 offense (while Wall's lead his team to a league average offense). For the most part have similar team records or better. Then there's Westbrook too, who may not have the team ORTG/ win record, but has been injured. Plus a lot of those guys are great defenders for their position too. That is just PG, not even including other positions. I'm not saying he's been worse than all those guys, but he's been worse than quite a few of them, and hasn't really stood out as a tier above the rest of them this season.

How many of those players are the unquestioned top players (both offensively and defensively) on their teams? Not a knock against players who aren't, but that's what Wall has been asked to do for the Wizards every night and he has been stellar.

Wall has absolutely been excellent this season, my friend. Go look up Jason Kidd's prime stats, he hovered around a ~106 offensive rating and his career TS% is .507. But he was widely regarded as the best all-around point guard in the league (combination of scoring, playmaking, defense, rebounding, transition game, etc) and was an outstanding, high IQ floor general which translated into great team success. He was generally considered an MVP-caliber player throughout his prime, despite tough competition in peak KG, Duncan, Shaq, Kobe.


A lot of fans nowadays get caught up in granular advanced stats, maybe you should take a step back and rethink your criteria for how you measure a player's impact on games. I don't know how to describe what John Wall is doing this season as anything other than excellence. He is leading the league in assists while also being the best defender at his position. He's not #1 in the race by any means but he is certainly playing MVP-type ball, and his team is experiencing great success with him at the helm.


And btw, both Wall and the Wizards offense have been trending upwards since the team started to get healthy. Iirc Washington was in the bottom half of offense early on while starting the likes of Garrett Temple at SG. As of now we're ranked #12 and less than 1ppp out of the top 10. So maybe you should start to reconsider your view that Wall can't captain a good offense, you're about to see it happen now.

[primecougar]

Wall isn't the only player in the league that can do those things, but he's one of the few (and by few, I mean can count on one hand) players in the NBA that combines all those attributes at such a high level. And he's doing this at age 24.

Keep a close watch on that MVP ladder over the next few weeks.. Wall just won EC POTW, and will probably be POTM for the conference. I can understand your reluctance in wanting to admit Wall's excellence, he looks like he has many years of point guard domination ahead of him. If I was a fan of another Eastern Conference team I wouldn't like it one bit.

It really has nothing to do with that. It has to do with him putting up non-MVP stats. 106 ORTG, 21.1 PER, .524ts%, 3.9tov's, .155 ws/48, are just straight up not in the ball park of dominance, or excellence, or MVP discussion.

Srsly, what has he done that a ton of other PG's in the league aren't doing this year? Paul, Curry, Conley, Irving, Lowry, Teague, and Lillard have all put up way better offensive numbers, have all lead their team to better ORTG's/ top 10 offense (while Wall's lead his team to a league average offense). For the most part have similar team records or better. Then there's Westbrook too, who may not have the team ORTG/ win record, but has been injured. Plus a lot of those guys are great defenders for their position too. That is just PG, not even including other positions. I'm not saying he's been worse than all those guys, but he's been worse than quite a few of them, and hasn't really stood out as a tier above the rest of them this season.

How many of those players are the unquestioned top players (both offensively and defensively) on their teams? Not a knock against players who aren't, but that's what Wall has been asked to do for the Wizards every night and he has been stellar.

Wall has absolutely been excellent this season, my friend. Go look up Jason Kidd's prime stats, he hovered around a ~106 offensive rating and his career TS% is .507. But he was widely regarded as the best all-around point guard in the league (combination of scoring, playmaking, defense, rebounding, transition game, etc) and was an outstanding, high IQ floor general which translated into great team success. He was generally considered an MVP-caliber player throughout his prime, despite tough competition in peak KG, Duncan, Shaq, Kobe.


A lot of fans nowadays get caught up in granular advanced stats, maybe you should take a step back and rethink your criteria for how you measure a player's impact on games. I don't know how to describe what John Wall is doing this season as anything other than excellence. He is leading the league in assists while also being the best defender at his position. He's not #1 in the race by any means but he is certainly playing MVP-type ball, and his team is experiencing great success with him at the helm.


And btw, both Wall and the Wizards offense have been trending upwards since the team started to get healthy. Iirc Washington was in the bottom half of offense early on while starting the likes of Garrett Temple at SG. As of now we're ranked #12 and less than 1ppp out of the top 10. So maybe you should start to reconsider your view that Wall can't captain a good offense, you're about to see it happen now.

lol he averages 17 points on a ts of 52. he averages 10 assists but has close to 4tpg. you make it seem like all the other actual mvp candidates dont do stuff that show up on the boxscore or play def.

lowry is one of the leading charge takers in the league and plays great def.
curry being on the court opens up shots for erveyone because of his shooting ability
westbrook has insane stamina and hes everywhere on the court.
cp3 is a floor general and controls the game.

these are 4 pg that are clearly better than him. please stop, hes not a top 5 mvp candidate. this list is not even considering any other positions.

lbj/westbrook/cp3/davis/harden/curry/gasol.... which one of these guys would you kick out for john wall?

the list is also missing guys like kd/Lamarcus/blake griffin etc.

[jangles86]

Curry
Harden
Davis
Gasol
Wall

My top 5 mvp right now. Wall has been unbelievable on both ends this year, literally carrying his team on his own back unlike many players that are in the top 10 for mvp conversations. Both nene and beal have missed games through injury this year and Wall has still got the wizards to being top of the east in the next few days.

[Hendrix]

It really has nothing to do with that. It has to do with him putting up non-MVP stats. 106 ORTG, 21.1 PER, .524ts%, 3.9tov's, .155 ws/48, are just straight up not in the ball park of dominance, or excellence, or MVP discussion.

Srsly, what has he done that a ton of other PG's in the league aren't doing this year? Paul, Curry, Conley, Irving, Lowry, Teague, and Lillard have all put up way better offensive numbers, have all lead their team to better ORTG's/ top 10 offense (while Wall's lead his team to a league average offense). For the most part have similar team records or better. Then there's Westbrook too, who may not have the team ORTG/ win record, but has been injured. Plus a lot of those guys are great defenders for their position too. That is just PG, not even including other positions. I'm not saying he's been worse than all those guys, but he's been worse than quite a few of them, and hasn't really stood out as a tier above the rest of them this season.

Dude, you've been a hater of Wall from the get. And there have been many of you. But, again, you are missing that he doesn't have another Allstar on his team. Put Durant on the Wiz, and Wall's assist stats would be unworldly. He's doing this with Rasual Butler and Gortat as his main weapons. Relax. Admit you are wrong and give the man his due. PS he's also developed into the best point guard defender (and also one of the best defenders period) in the league. And he's 24. With one season injured. And attempting to revitalize a decades-old, horrendous franchise by himself.

Admit I'm wrong? lol. So, you would like me to 'admit' that John Wall is a legit MVP candidate? No.... All I've said is that he doesn't belong in the discussion of MVP, which he doesn't.

I'm not a hater, I'm a realist. The one's that have a distorted view are the (shockingly) bias hometown fans. I don't harp on other PG's like Irving, Teague, Conley, etc... Because their team's fans aren't always trying to inject those guys into discussions they don't belong in, like MVP discussions.

Srsly.... you are bending facts trying to paint a picture where Rasual Butler and Gortat are his main weapons. He has Pierce, Beal, Gortat, and Nene (sometimes) in the starting lineup. That is a fairly complete starting lineup, and one that a 'true' MVP PG should be able to generate a better-than-average ORTG out of.

Take a look at the all-encompassing advanced stats among the 9 PG's I mentioned.

PER
1. 34.5 PER - Westbrook
2. 26.4 PER - Curry
3. 25.2 PER - Paul
4. 23.0 PER - Lowry
5. 22.2 PER - Lillard
6. 21.2 PER - Teague
7. 21.1 PER - Wall (26th in league among guards)
8. 21.0 PER - Conley
9. 20.7 PER - Irving

ORTG
1. 127 ORTG - Paul
2. 120 ORTG- Irving
3. 119 ORTG- Lowry
4. 118 ORTG- Curry
5. 117 ORTG - Conley
6. 117 ORTG - Lillard
7. 117 ORTG - Westbrook
8. 113 ORTG- Teague
9. 106 ORTG - Wall (51st in league among guards)


True Shooting %
1. .616ts% - Curry
2. .603ts% - Paul
3. .601ts% - Westbrook
4. .588ts% - Teague
5. .586ts% - Conley
6. .585ts% - Lillard
7. .577ts% - Irving
8. .551ts% - Lowry
9. .526ts% - Wall (58th in league among guards)


VORP
1. 7.5 - Curry
2. 6.2 - Lillard
3. 6.0 - Paul
4. 5.9- Lowry
5. 4.8 - Wall (6th in league among guards)
6. 4.4 - Westbrook
7. 4.2 - Irving
8. 3.8 - Conley
9. 2.4 - Teague

Winshares / 48
1. .326 ws/48 - Westbrook
2. .276 ws/48 - Curry
3. .264 ws/48 - Paul
4. .221 ws/48 - Lowry
5. .220 ws/48 - Lillard
6. .193 ws/48 - Conley
7. .289 ws/48 - Irving
8. .181 ws/48 - Teague
9. .155 ws/48 - Wall (18th in league among guards)

Team ORTG
1. Lowry 115.8 ORTG - 2nd overall
2. Paul - 114.4 ORTG - 3rd overall
3. Irving - 111.6 ORTG - 4th overall
4. Conley - 109.8 ORTG - 6th overall
5. Lillard - 108.9 ORTG - 7th overall
6. Warriors - 108.8 ORTG - 8th overall
7. Teague - 107.9 ORTG - 9th overall
8. Wall - 106.5 ORTG - 13th overall
9. Westbrook - 103.2 ORTG 23rd overall (* effected by injury)

Team record (win %)
1. Curry (.875%)
2. Conley (.840%)
3. Lillard (.769%)
4. Lowry (.769%)
5. Wall (.750%)
6. Paul (.720%)
7. Teague (.720%)
8. Irving (.583%)
9. Westbrook (.480%) (*effected by injury)

He's in the bottom half of every single one of those. Clearly not even in the running for most valuable PG in the league, let alone MVP of the league. Why don't you admit that he isn't an MVP candidate, and that the only real MVP candidates at the PG position are Curry, Paul, and maybe Westbrook if he continues playing like this/his team gets a great record.

[primecougar]

Curry
Harden
Davis
Gasol
Wall

My top 5 mvp right now. Wall has been unbelievable on both ends this year, literally carrying his team on his own back unlike many players that are in the top 10 for mvp conversations. Both nene and beal have missed games through injury this year and Wall has still got the wizards to being top of the east in the next few days.

So he's been better than lbj and Westbrook/Lowry?

You delusional if you think he's been better.

Lbj on a new team and they're still figuring it out but his numbers trump walls in any way you want to look at it.
Wesbrook not only impacts the game way more but he's putting up prime kobe/tmac/lbj numbers but it's been only 12-13 games but if he keeps it up then wall once agn is not close.

Lowry and wall have similar numbers but not only do the raptors have a better record/face and beat better teams, Lowry had a triple double vs wall and kept wall under 10 points. Wall called it the toughest game of the season.

Wall has no business being above any of these guys.

Oh yeah you also forget to mention cp3 who has been better than wall without a question.

[Hendrix]

Wall isn't the only player in the league that can do those things, but he's one of the few (and by few, I mean can count on one hand) players in the NBA that combines all those attributes at such a high level. And he's doing this at age 24.

Keep a close watch on that MVP ladder over the next few weeks.. Wall just won EC POTW, and will probably be POTM for the conference. I can understand your reluctance in wanting to admit Wall's excellence, he looks like he has many years of point guard domination ahead of him. If I was a fan of another Eastern Conference team I wouldn't like it one bit.

It really has nothing to do with that. It has to do with him putting up non-MVP stats. 106 ORTG, 21.1 PER, .524ts%, 3.9tov's, .155 ws/48, are just straight up not in the ball park of dominance, or excellence, or MVP discussion.

Srsly, what has he done that a ton of other PG's in the league aren't doing this year? Paul, Curry, Conley, Irving, Lowry, Teague, and Lillard have all put up way better offensive numbers, have all lead their team to better ORTG's/ top 10 offense (while Wall's lead his team to a league average offense). For the most part have similar team records or better. Then there's Westbrook too, who may not have the team ORTG/ win record, but has been injured. Plus a lot of those guys are great defenders for their position too. That is just PG, not even including other positions. I'm not saying he's been worse than all those guys, but he's been worse than quite a few of them, and hasn't really stood out as a tier above the rest of them this season.

How many of those players are the unquestioned top players (both offensively and defensively) on their teams? Not a knock against players who aren't, but that's what Wall has been asked to do for the Wizards every night and he has been stellar.

Wall has absolutely been excellent this season, my friend. Go look up Jason Kidd's prime stats, he hovered around a ~106 offensive rating and his career TS% is .507. But he was widely regarded as the best all-around point guard in the league (combination of scoring, playmaking, defense, rebounding, transition game, etc) and was an outstanding, high IQ floor general which translated into great team success. He was generally considered an MVP-caliber player throughout his prime, despite tough competition in peak KG, Duncan, Shaq, Kobe.


A lot of fans nowadays get caught up in granular advanced stats, maybe you should take a step back and rethink your criteria for how you measure a player's impact on games. I don't know how to describe what John Wall is doing this season as anything other than excellence. He is leading the league in assists while also being the best defender at his position. He's not #1 in the race by any means but he is certainly playing MVP-type ball, and his team is experiencing great success with him at the helm.


And btw, both Wall and the Wizards offense have been trending upwards since the team started to get healthy. Iirc Washington was in the bottom half of offense early on while starting the likes of Garrett Temple at SG. As of now we're ranked #12 and less than 1ppp out of the top 10. So maybe you should start to reconsider your view that Wall can't captain a good offense, you're about to see it happen now.

No, he really isn't playing MVP type Ball. PER has it's faults, but it's generally pretty good at giving at least somewhat of a ball park of players, and the vast majority of years an MVP is posting 25-31 PER. Wall is at 21 PER. I doubt there's ever been a player that got MVP with a 21 PER.

I'm not saying he's having a bad year. He's had a very good year. I agree with you there. Just not a MVP candidate year. Tons of other players have impacts that go beyond the box scores. Durant is clutch as hell. Lebron's had years of great defense, and is an amazing facilitator for his size, and winner. Gasol is one of the most impactful defenders in the league at the most important position for it. Paul is an amazing floor general. Etc... Etc...

I don't really get why Washington fans are taking it as an insult that I'm saying he's not in the conversation for MVP. It shouldn't be super surprising considering he's not even ranked by NBA.com either. Some of you guys are acting like I'm saying he's a below average PG or something. It's not an insult to not be in the conversation for MVP, it's just the truth.

[Chriscross]

Wall is having an outstanding season thus far. He has a On-Off NetRtg of 12.4 and the Wizards have the 2nd best record in the East. The Wizards are complete garbage without Wall

Stephen Curry

DFG%: 38
Diff%: -5.9

John Wall

DFG%: 39.3
Diff%: -3.7

Chris Paul

DFG%: 40.8
Diff%: -3.2

Jeff Teague

DFG%: 41.5
Diff%: -1.2

Damian Lillard

DFG%: 42.7
Diff%: -0.4

Kyle Lowry

DFG%: 44.7
Diff%: 0.4

Mike Conley

DFG%: 44.9
Diff%: 1.7

[Hendrix]

Wall is having an outstanding season thus far. He has a On-Off NetRtg of 12.4 and the Wizards have the 2nd best record in the East. The Wizards are complete garbage without Wall

Stephen Curry

DFG%: 38
Diff%: -5.9

John Wall

DFG%: 39.3
Diff%: -3.7

Chris Paul

DFG%: 40.8
Diff%: -3.2

Jeff Teague

DFG%: 41.5
Diff%: -1.2

Damian Lillard

DFG%: 42.7
Diff%: -0.4

Kyle Lowry

DFG%: 44.7
Diff%: 0.4

Mike Conley

DFG%: 44.9
Diff%: 1.7

on/off stats like these are super shady with small sample sizes. There are 10 players on the court at any given time. Using these types of numbers there has been entire years worth of data where the Spurs were better defensively with prime Tim Duncan off the court, which obviously is just wrong. Teams have only played like 24 games so far. The first indication here should be that Curry (while improved on defense) is ranked #1, where Conley (who is one of the better defensive PG's) is ranked last.

There's no doubt Wall is very good defensively. But, this isn't the stat to point to it. DRPM Wall is ranked 1st overall at PG, however when you factor in offense, he's ranked 5th overall in RPM behind Curry, Paul, Lowry, and Lillard. Again though, too small of a sample size to really start throwing RPM #'s around imo.

[Liver_Pooty]

Limited games, but Westbrook has a way better case.

Lowry, Wall, and Lillard all have the same case in my opinion.

Westbrook may win it all when its all said and done.

[Wizkids12345]

Wall isn't the only player in the league that can do those things, but he's one of the few (and by few, I mean can count on one hand) players in the NBA that combines all those attributes at such a high level. And he's doing this at age 24.

Keep a close watch on that MVP ladder over the next few weeks.. Wall just won EC POTW, and will probably be POTM for the conference. I can understand your reluctance in wanting to admit Wall's excellence, he looks like he has many years of point guard domination ahead of him. If I was a fan of another Eastern Conference team I wouldn't like it one bit.

It really has nothing to do with that. It has to do with him putting up non-MVP stats. 106 ORTG, 21.1 PER, .524ts%, 3.9tov's, .155 ws/48, are just straight up not in the ball park of dominance, or excellence, or MVP discussion.

Srsly, what has he done that a ton of other PG's in the league aren't doing this year? Paul, Curry, Conley, Irving, Lowry, Teague, and Lillard have all put up way better offensive numbers, have all lead their team to better ORTG's/ top 10 offense (while Wall's lead his team to a league average offense). For the most part have similar team records or better. Then there's Westbrook too, who may not have the team ORTG/ win record, but has been injured. Plus a lot of those guys are great defenders for their position too. That is just PG, not even including other positions. I'm not saying he's been worse than all those guys, but he's been worse than quite a few of them, and hasn't really stood out as a tier above the rest of them this season.

Umm as I stated in my original post those other point gaurds are not ranking first in points created off assists (24.5), first in assists per game (10.6), first in assist percentage (46.4), first in hockey assists (2.2), first in assists that lead to free throws per game (1.3) and second in steal per game (2.2) and dragging a team with the second best player is averaging 15 points per game with a 54% ts percentage to an 18-6 record. You can pull out all those advanced stats but there are so many things that you just have to watch the wizards to see. It's arguable marcin gortat is the second best offensive player on the team. Randy wittman does not run a great offensive system. No one on the team can create there own shot. Thats why the offense is average, without him it would be one of the worst offensive teams in the league. And the wizards are 5th in defense, and that all stems from john wall. He has been the best defensive point gaurd this season, even zach Lowe agrees with that.

[benb331]

I'm just gonna chime in here and point out that everyone is underrating the defensive aspect of the game. Offensive dominance: that's the nature of MVP, but when you consider end-to-end production - I just don't understand how people can deny John Wall's candidacy for being among the 10 best all around players in the league today. I completely understand the offensive arguments, which have been parroted verbatim. We're in a scoring guard dominant age. Kudos to all those NBA players who have put up amazing individual offensive statistics.

But I ask: have you seen the intensity on D? the pace? the teammate involvemnt? the control? the will to win?

John's not going to lead the league in PER or TS% or EFG or whatever advanced stat is in vogue. He's only going to convince you folks and the rest of the league that he's elite - among all positions, among all time players - if/when his team is winning the ECF and ultimately the championship. Fine. I'm OK with that. That's his challenge. He doesn't need to be the best shooter, scorer, or advanced statistics monger in the NBA. Hell, he'll NEVER be the statistical leader in those categories. He just needs to win.

The nice thing, about being a long suffrin' boulez fan, is that he's got the mindset for it. He's not a me-first kinda guy. Just a winner.

To hell with this MVP talk. Just win. The right way.